Arms

[fsk8r]

I've just started work on my first ever program. I've done dances and some synchro before and don't have a problem remembering step sequences, but I can't for the life of me get my arms to move anywhere.
For some reason i'm very self conscious of what my arms are doing and it gets worse when my music plays for a run through.
It's really starting to bug me as I can't get over this horrid feeling that I'm looking ridiculous. I know that no one is watching me other than the coach as everyone is too busy worrying about their own stuff, but I still feel stupid.
I'm doing ballet class and don't have a problem doing "pretty" arms there, but I can't do them on the ice. My only theory is the safety in numbers thing, with everyone doing it in ballet.
The coach has started saying that we've got to go for the second mark (I'm assuming she's meaning presentation and that technically its fine for my standard as I can now do all the moves in it except the arms).
I'm starting to panic as she's entered this for the tests which are just over a week away, so I've not got long to get over the hangup. (The only good thing is that I'm worrying about this and not the dance and moves tests I'm taking so my other coach isn't having to deal with me in "freak-out" mode).

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get over this?

[Rusty Blades]

LOL! Funny you should mention this.....

I tend to be rather self-conscious in practice and always felt a bit silly with "big arms". What helped is video taping my practice and comparing "expression" to other skaters. Anything you do on the ice looks tiny from 80 feet away!

Then, to REALLY open up, watch Jimmy MacElroy in "Blades of Glory"! 8O I am serious! Now my coach and I refer to it as "Jimmy arms" :mrgreen:

Remember, it's a PERFORMANCE so perform!

[looplover]

I don't have a lot of advice, just sympathy as I struggle with the exact same thing. I think muscle memory probably applies here too. I talked to my coach about presentation and she's working hard with me to retrain me to think about this as well...the old way feels so familiar at this point. So I guess the pretty arms have to feel correct and the wimpy arms (hee) have to feel incorrect.

Nonskaters have no idea how cerebral and difficult all of this is!! So much to think about!

[Rusty Blades]

ISo much to think about!

Reminds me of my first coach yelling at me about the position of some body part or other. I replied, "I have WAY TOO MANY body parts to keep track of them ALL!"

[fsk8r]

Reminds me of my first coach yelling at me about the position of some body part or other. I replied, "I have WAY TOO MANY body parts to keep track of them ALL!"

I tried that one too, when she wanted arms and barrel rolls. I told her that staying upright on a barrel roll was more important than arms. I was told I could have that one (only because another coach was rolling on the ice laughing at my feeble attempt - I think I looked like I was about to strangle myself) but only if she had all the other arm movements.

I can appreciate the whole not seeing it from 80ft point of needing big arms, but it doesn't really help when you still don't actually believe you can skate, think the fact that you've reached "skirt-wearing" level is a really big achievement, and freak out with the whole thought of testing and competing a program (despite desperately wanting to because it's the whole "made it" part).

I think this probably all stems from a self-confidence thing. I've got to the point where I believe I can do field moves but have yet to believe I can do a program. I've only ever done jumps and spins in isolation and having to do them to music whilst making the rest of me look "pretty" isn't exactly the easiest thing I've dreamt up (which is probably why I'm trying to do it).

Think I'm about to dig out blades of glory now for my bank holiday viewing pleasure.

[looplover]

Reminds me of my first coach yelling at me about the position of some body part or other. I replied, "I have WAY TOO MANY body parts to keep track of them ALL!"

LOL!!!! Exactly how I feel when trying to do camels - pinky toe, left arm, shoulders, head, right leg...yikes I don't think my brain has enough neurons, seriously! :mrgreen:

[doubletoe]

Personally, I think your concern about arms is something that will make you a much better skater. So many skaters don't even think about what their arms are doing, especially in their first few years of competition. I'd suggest spending your next two lessons doing nothing but having your coach decide exactly what your arms are going to be doing at every single moment of your program. Take notes and get the positions into muscle memory. Then, when you get your first performance video, go through it and take notes on where your arms still look awkward. You can go back to your coach and ask for help on those arm positions or you can watch videos of your favorite skaters and see what they're doing with their arms and copy it. I've always had the same concern about arms, and I find that they keep getting a little better each season as I keep watching my videos and tweaking.

[fsk8r]

Personally, I think your concern about arms is something that will make you a much better skater. So many skaters don't even think about what their arms are doing, especially in their first few years of competition. I'd suggest spending your next two lessons doing nothing but having your coach decide exactly what your arms are going to be doing at every single moment of your program. Take notes and get the positions into muscle memory. Then, when you get your first performance video, go through it and take notes on where your arms still look awkward. You can go back to your coach and ask for help on those arm positions or you can watch videos of your favorite skaters and see what they're doing with their arms and copy it. I've always had the same concern about arms, and I find that they keep getting a little better each season as I keep watching my videos and tweaking.

I hadn't thought of the video aspect before. I'll have to see if i can find someone to take a video for me. I'm hoping that if the coach only picks arm movements that are in ballet the muscle memory isn't too much to learn as it should already be there.
Strangely this morning, it did all seem to work quite well with arms and legs moving at about the right times. Though just as I was starting to feel pleased with myself, I was being reminded not to look at the ice. When I suggested that it was getting to be a bit too much to expect arms AND head to be doing something, I was reminded that I only had 6 arm movements in the program and that I should always have my head up regardless.

I'm pleased to hear that if I keep worrying about my arms that they will improve. It's just a bit of a shock to me that having spent so long worrying about getting the feet to do something right, that I've got to worry about my arms as well. (Thankfully it's nearly summer and I can start doing some English style figures again and start glueing the arms at the side - which is just as hard as trying to move them!).

[doubletoe]

I remember what a challenge it was to get myself to be more physically expressive on the ice. Like you, I felt very self-conscious about it. I was also embarrassed to look at my arm and body movements in the plexiglass "mirror" at the rink because I thought it made me look vain, LOL! What I eventually realized is that every other skater has to do the exact same thing, and they all understand why we have to do it. Plus, they really couldn't care less; they are too busy practicing their own stuff.

A few years ago I gave myself the challenge of "taking up more space" on the ice. I have always been uncomfortable calling attention to myself or being "showy", but once I laid down the challenge and made myself really extend those arms all the way and make my movements "big", I created a new comfort zone that has freed me ever since. It's so worth it!

[Morgail]

If you don't feel comfortable going for showy, artistic arm movements yet, just try keeping them up and not letting your hands go droopy. I remember a former coach telling me that I couldn't go wrong with the "hands on table" look. It makes you look poised and confident (even if you don't feel that way!).

[ibreakhearts66]

i, too, feel really uncomfortable with my arms. i guess i'm a good skater by most standards, but I still feel stuck in the super-awkard-just-grew-6-inches-in-a-year stage i started in. what's helped me is watching videos of famous skaters, picking one arm motion that they did that i liked, and practicing it. then, you can build from there. it seems to make more sense after i see it being done than if i have to "create" the movement myself.

[twokidsskatemom]

Personally, I think your concern about arms is something that will make you a much better skater. So many skaters don't even think about what their arms are doing, especially in their first few years of competition. I'd suggest spending your next two lessons doing nothing but having your coach decide exactly what your arms are going to be doing at every single moment of your program. Take notes and get the positions into muscle memory. Then, when you get your first performance video, go through it and take notes on where your arms still look awkward. You can go back to your coach and ask for help on those arm positions or you can watch videos of your favorite skaters and see what they're doing with their arms and copy it. I've always had the same concern about arms, and I find that they keep getting a little better each season as I keep watching my videos and tweaking.


Great advice !!!

[fsk8r]

i, too, feel really uncomfortable with my arms. i guess i'm a good skater by most standards, but I still feel stuck in the super-awkard-just-grew-6-inches-in-a-year stage i started in. what's helped me is watching videos of famous skaters, picking one arm motion that they did that i liked, and practicing it. then, you can build from there. it seems to make more sense after i see it being done than if i have to "create" the movement myself.

It's good to know that people who've been doing it a bit longer than I've worried about arms still find them awkward. I like the suggestion about the picking one move from the videos as I generally watch them and don't get the whole movement thing as I'm generally just too much in awe. And I know exactly what you mean about the copying rather than creating.

The really annoying thing is that just when I think the arms are moving correctly I get reminded that I need to look up as well. I'm beginning to think that skating is just getting far too complicated. It was quite easy when all I had to worry about was what my feet was doing and having two of them was hard enough!

[doubletoe]

The really annoying thing is that just when I think the arms are moving correctly I get reminded that I need to look up as well.

Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but. . . why would you be looking down in the first place? If you're always looking up whenever you skate, then it's something you won't ever have to think about (and looking up at all times will also keep you from getting run over on busy freestyle sessions, LOL!)

[Skittl1321]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but. . . why would you be looking down in the first place? If you're always looking up whenever you skate, then it's something you won't ever have to think about (and looking up at all times will also keep you from getting run over on busy freestyle sessions, LOL!)

because if this ice melts, or someone moves the rink, and you weren't looking down when it happened you wouldn't know the ice wasn't there anymore and really get hurt trying to skate without it?

I think for me at least (a perpetual looker downer) its not a matter of "why are you looking down" its "how can i make myself look up". I don't watch my feet unless its a step sequence, I'm not scared the ice is going to move away anymore, but I look down. It's not something I don't have to think about. I have to think "look up" more than ANYTHING else in my entire program.

And my new signature move- my HEAD is up- but every photo looks like I'm skating with my eyes closed because my EYES are still looking down.

[fsk8r]

because if this ice melts, or someone moves the rink, and you weren't looking down when it happened you wouldn't know the ice wasn't there anymore and really get hurt trying to skate without it?

I think for me at least (a perpetual looker downer) its not a matter of "why are you looking down" its "how can i make myself look up". I don't watch my feet unless its a step sequence, I'm not scared the ice is going to move away anymore, but I look down. It's not something I don't have to think about. I have to think "look up" more than ANYTHING else in my entire program.

And my new signature move- my HEAD is up- but every photo looks like I'm skating with my eyes closed because my EYES are still looking down.

Sounds very familiar. I think it's from all the time as a kid walking down the street and being told by my mother to not step in the dog muck. So I tend to walk around with my eyes on the ground. I look ahead by about 10 or so yards but don't ever have my head properly up. I have to really think about walking with my head up, so I tend to skate with my head down. And if I'm doing something I really don't like, I have to look down to make sure my feet are doing exactly what I asked them to do, and haven't wondered off somewhere on their own. Feet do have a tendency to just walk off.

The bit I don't get is that I don't even notice that I'm looking down, because it's not really down, down, it's just not up. Because of this, I'm perfectly safe on a really crowded freestyle session (although for a leftie I don't think this is ever true, I've just not got very good nerves to get myself into trouble), but I don't look up. I think it's probably something to do with just having poor posture to start with, so my back is hunched and rolled and my head is down. I probably look something like the caveman on the cornflakes ad.

But I do agree I should practice looking up more to make that bit of it second nature.

[doubletoe]

because if this ice melts, or someone moves the rink, and you weren't looking down when it happened you wouldn't know the ice wasn't there anymore and really get hurt trying to skate without it?

ROFLMAO!!

I don't even notice that I'm looking down, because it's not really down, down, it's just not up. Because of this, I'm perfectly safe on a really crowded freestyle session (although for a leftie I don't think this is ever true, I've just not got very good nerves to get myself into trouble), but I don't look up. I think it's probably something to do with just having poor posture to start with, so my back is hunched and rolled and my head is down.

Yeah, I know what you mean. After being constantly reminded to arch my back and lift my chest and chin while skating my program, I've now gotten into the habit of skating with my face up, BUT. . . like Skittl, I always come across a few action shots where my eyes look closed because even though my face is up, my eyes are sneaking a peek to make sure the ice is still there, LOL!

[looplover]

BUT. . . like Skittl, I always come across a few action shots where my eyes look closed because even though my face is up, my eyes are sneaking a peek to make sure the ice is still there, LOL!

Yup, me too - muscle memory from skating crowded public sessions and watching out for small children...looking up actually feels scary to me 8O

[twokidsskatemom]

because if this ice melts, or someone moves the rink, and you weren't looking down when it happened you wouldn't know the ice wasn't there anymore and really get hurt trying to skate without it?

I think for me at least (a perpetual looker downer) its not a matter of "why are you looking down" its "how can i make myself look up". I don't watch my feet unless its a step sequence, I'm not scared the ice is going to move away anymore, but I look down. It's not something I don't have to think about. I have to think "look up" more than ANYTHING else in my entire program.

And my new signature move- my HEAD is up- but every photo looks like I'm skating with my eyes closed because my EYES are still looking down.
My daughters coaches always try to impress the eyes follow the arms.

[doubletoe]

My daughters coaches always try to impress the eyes follow the arms.

That's a good rule.

[jwrnsktr]

I asked my coach about this recently and he told me to get the feet moving so comfortably that they do what they do from muscle memory and then you can move the upper body artistically. A coach in Lake Placid, when asked to add "arms" to a program, states that she will add "body movements." Think of adding body movement, not just "arms." I think both pieces of advice are good.

[ibreakhearts66]

If it makes you feel any better, basically all of the good skaters at my rink struggle with arms. We were working on movement off-ice, and no one was comfortable with it. These are girls who have been skating like 7 years and land most of their doubles, so you are far from the only one who has a hard time with them.