update: Pre-bronze 3 turn pattern

[froggy]

I'm so confused! I've been practicing with my coach for months now this 3 turn pattern, I've just noticed the USFSA has a video up on its website with a skater doing the second part of the lobe with a crossover. Is that the correct way it's to be done?? I've been doing it as individual edges no crossover whatsoever (ie: if i started out on a LFI3 and a RFO3 I would then push onto Left inside edge and hold, Right outside edge hold, cross Left foot over right and immediately unweight right foot and hold left inside edge, right inside edge hold, repeat pattern et.). the way I've been practicing for myself at least has been very very hard to control the edges, I recently tried it the way I see it on the video and it was a breeze!!


so my question is, what is the correct way the 2nd lobe is to be done?? is the video on the usfsa website accurate??

thanks so much!

[dbny]

That is THE question that a lot of people want the answer to! The pattern says very clearly "X Front", which is what you have been doing, and is generally more difficult than a crossover (XO). The description in the rule book, however, says "crossover". I've only seen this test skated once, and it was done with a X Front (and passed).

[GordonSk8erBoi]

The way I've been taught to do this is a crossover. The test FORM says "On the first length of the aren skater will perform RFI to LFO 3-turns followed by a crossover and step forward." I'm aware the pattern says XFront.

I've been taught to do this the same as the back lobe of Power-3s, with the wide-step weight shift etc.

[Isk8NYC]

I've been taught to do this the same as the back lobe of Power-3s, with the wide-step weight shift etc.I was told the same thing, and I've seen it pass at test sessions.

I think your best bet is to ask the Test Chair for your Club to see if there's been a ruling or clarification. I checked the PSA site, but they don't have info for the adult MITF test standards.

[icedancer2]

As a judge - for this level I would accept either, especially since the wording is completely ambiguous.

[Debbie S]

I think your best bet is to ask the Test Chair for your Club to see if there's been a ruling or clarification. It depends on your test chair - they may or may not be a good source of info. I recently e-mailed a test chair to ask her about something related to my upcoming Silver MIF test and she responded with a nice answer (about logistics) and a question: what's Silver MIF? LOL! I responded with a quick explanation of the adult testing track. :)

FWIW, I've seen that 3-turn pattern done both ways (cross front and crossover in power 3 style) - 2 different test sessions. Each skater passed.

I do wish that the USFSA would clarify the pattern, b/c the diagram isn't clear. At least put a video up on the website (and I mean an official one, not one from the Adult Committee, which did a great job with the videos, but they likely don't know anything more than the rest of us on how that move is supposed to be).

[quarkiki2]

Hehehe I hate this pattern...

I have to practice it with a cross in front because if I do it with the crossover, I make the pattern too large to fit the required number of sets. If I do the crossover, I do 2 or 3 sets down the long axis. If I do a cross in front, then I can do the required 4-6 sets.

My problem is not the power, I just dislike three turns. Nope, I HATE them.

[skaternum]

I recently e-mailed a test chair to ask her about something related to my upcoming Silver MIF test and she responded with a nice answer (about logistics) and a question: what's Silver MIF? LOL! I responded with a quick explanation of the adult testing track. :)

Gawd, stuff like this just makes my blood boil. HOW LONG HAVE WE HAD ADULT TESTS? More than a decade. They're in the rule book. Indefensible.

[coskater64]

I think this move is only in its 2nd or 3rd year. I managed the pre bronze fm test in January. I taped it and it is on you tube under Bouldersk8r.8O

[froggy]

thanks so much for all the advice I'm going to discuss this all with my coach and maybe try to get in touch with someone who is familiar with the testing at the club I decide to test with.

[Debbie S]

Gawd, stuff like this just makes my blood boil. Well, in her defense, she's new to the test chair role. She responded to my e-mail of explanation with an apology ("Can you tell I'm a new test chair?") and she said that she had gone and done some research on the adult moves tests to learn about them.

I had the same reaction you did at first, but she's a very nice woman (and her daughter is very sweet, too) and she's still in the learning phase.

[dbny]

I've been taught to do this the same as the back lobe of Power-3s, with the wide-step weight shift etc.

That is the one thing it is definitely not - though, as others have said, it's likely to pass anyway. If you watch the video, you'll see that it is not a two foot transition to the BI edge that follows the 3-turn.

[Mrs Redboots]

We don't have this move in our Skating Moves tests, but I have learnt it anyway (along with your 5-step Mohawk) and try to remember to practice it; the thing I find really difficult is after the LFI 3, RFO 3, getting my weight over my left hip, whether I do a crossover or a cross-in-front! I've tried both and can do neither.....

Of course, whenever I try to show my coach what I'm doing wrong it works perfectly, probably because I go into it more slowly. He just gets all excited that I'm doing it at all, as he knows I hate that particular turn sequence.....

[skaternum]

Well, in her defense, she's new to the test chair role. She responded to my e-mail of explanation with an apology ("Can you tell I'm a new test chair?") and she said that she had gone and done some research on the adult moves tests to learn about them. That's comforting, but still ... what did the last test chair do to help "train" her? New test chairs 'round here get "big picture" info from the previous one. Stuff like: there's 8 kinds of tests, each with different sets of eligibility and tests. Within each kind of test, there are skill levels. Each skill level requires a different level of judge. Etc.

For those wondering, I'm counting the 8 as:
standard moves
standard singles freestyle
adult moves
adult singles freestyle
standard pairs
adult pairs
standard dance
adult dance

But good for her for going and doing the research.

[Debbie S]

That's comforting, but still ... what did the last test chair do to help "train" her? I'm pretty sure the last test chair showed her how to register tests and results with the USFSA system, and gave her all the materials, including the guidebook that tells what type of judging panel is required for each test and how many minures to allot, etc. And there was a transitional test session last summer where the old test chair guided the new test chair and other volunteers through the process of running a test session.

Two adults tested Silver MIF at the Nov test session, so it surprised me that the test name didn't sound familiar to her. But there's a lot of lingo involved with testing and skating, plus I'm sure she's got tons of other stuff to think about in her 'real' life. I guess it's natural for us to assume everyone knows the jargon, since we spend all this time on the forum talking about it. ;) :)

[froggy]

I contacted the USFSA adult skating committe chair (Antonio Conte) and asked them if the video on the website demonstrating the pre-bronze 3 turn pattern is accurate and for that matter is doing it the other way with a hold on each edge of the second lobe accurate.

this is their response:

"You can actually do the move either way you describe. The MIF on the video would pass."

[quarkiki2]

If you're talking about the move Philip Dulebohn is demonstrating, well... he dang well BETTER pass a PB test...

[Isk8NYC]

If you're talking about the move Philip Dulebohn is demonstrating, well... he dang well BETTER pass a PB test...
That's the issue - his demonstration doesn't match the rulebook description of the move. What the Adult Committee has decided is that either technique is considered passing standard .

[phoenix]

For those wondering, I'm counting the 8 as:
standard moves
standard singles freestyle
adult moves
adult singles freestyle
standard pairs
adult pairs
standard dance
adult dance



OT a moment----there's also solo dance. Relatively new, maybe not everyone is aware of this option.

[sk8pics]

If you're talking about the move Philip Dulebohn is demonstrating, well... he dang well BETTER pass a PB test...

:lol::lol::lol:

[LilJen]

If you're talking about the move Philip Dulebohn is demonstrating, well... he dang well BETTER pass a PB test...

Uh, no kidding!!!

My coach has always taught it as a crossover. She's been trying to get me to skate it MUCH bigger than I had been (FLOW!! FLOW!!!). . . now I'm freaked that I won't fit 4 to 6 of them in the length of the rink. . .

[GordonSk8erBoi]

If you're talking about the move Philip Dulebohn is demonstrating, well... he dang well BETTER pass a PB test...

No. Just because he's a wonderful skater, if what he were doing were actually wrong it shouldn't pass.

[icedancer2]

No. Just because he's a wonderful skater, if what he were doing were actually wrong it shouldn't pass.

So Gordon, when are you going to sign up to trial judge?
:evil:

[Skittl1321]

No. Just because he's a wonderful skater, if what he were doing were actually wrong it shouldn't pass.

Well the OP updated to say either way is okay, but lets just say the crossover he is doing is wrong. I would think that his profiency on the rest of the elements of the pattern is sufficient that on a test marked pass/retry- the judge would pass him even with this element wrong. I mean it's not like he's doing mohawks instead of 3 turns, it's a small mistake based on what the rulebook says. But a true PB skater might not have the profiency to make up for doing a wrong step.

I'm glad both will pass. It seems irresponsible for a video demonstration to contradict the rulebook. (Though if I understand the rulebook contradicts itself?)

[GordonSk8erBoi]

So Gordon, when are you going to sign up to trial judge?
:evil:

Um, when I retire? I really don't have time for my own skating right now, much less starting that. Plus I think I should be a better skater first...

[newskatesold]

I worked on the moves videos with a team from the adult committee. After entering the test results from test sessions, it seemed like a good idea to use the description the judges read while evaluating your move on the test for the move description since that's what they see and mark you on. Here is the description for that move in the field:

Forward Three-Turn Pattern
Forward 3-turn pattern: On the first length of the arena
skater will perform RFI to LFO 3-turns followed by a
cross over and a step forward. The second length of the
arena, skater will perform LFI to RFO 3-turns followed
by a cross over then a step forward. Four to six sets of
3-turn lobes will be skated depending on the size of the
arena. End sequence and introductory steps optional.
Skater may begin with either foot.

Hope this helps. (That's why Phil skated it with the crossover in the video.):D

[dbny]

Forward 3-turn pattern: On the first length of the arena
skater will perform RFI to LFO 3-turns followed by a
cross over and a step forward. The second length of the
arena, skater will perform LFI to RFO 3-turns followed
by a cross over then a step forward.

Which is interesting because this description leaves out the step to RBI, and that is what Philip does as a step and not a two footed power shift. There seems to be no mention of that at all and how it is to be done.

[Mrs Redboots]

Oops; I've been doing it wrong then - I do RFI3, LFO3, back crossover (or whatever), step forwards into LFI3, RFO3, back whatever and repeat.... Which is how it would be done here if it were one of our Skating Moves, which it isn't.

Never mind, it's still a good exercise!

[dbny]

Oops; I've been doing it wrong then - I do RFI3, LFO3, back crossover (or whatever), step forwards into LFI3, RFO3, back whatever and repeat.... Which is how it would be done here if it were one of our Skating Moves, which it isn't.

Never mind, it's still a good exercise!

My point exactly. Thank you.

[Skittl1321]

never mind.