Is it possible to teach yourself a Spiral?

[FSWer]

Say...I've always wanted to learn to do a Spiral. The closest I've got was seeing my coach do hers for me. But does anyone know if it's possible to also teach yourself a Spiral,and if so...how would you go about it? Thanks.

[Isk8NYC]

You have to first be able to hold the position off ice. Then you have to be able to glide on one foot. From there, you just start with the free foot low and hold the position over and over until you get the hang of it.

[FSWer]

How would I do that?

[Skittl1321]

It's possible to teach yourself almost anything, but you always risk learning it incorrectly. I think you'd be better off asking an instructor to teach it to you.

To be able to do a spiral you need a really strong one foot glide first. Your one foot glide should be straight (no veering off to the side), with your free leg held in a strong position (at your heel, for example, but not swinging around) for probably at least twice your height, if not longer.

Then you can work on lifting your leg, and arching your back into a good spiral position. You don't want your head looking down at the ice like you're an airplane. Keep the body mostly upright (my first coach told me to make the shape of a banana with my head, back, and leg) Work on the height of the leg a little at a time- you don't need to look like Sasha Cohen on your first try. If you are going forward, make sure to keep the weight to the middle of your skate- you DO NOT want to let your toe pick touch the ice.

For me, backward spirals are less scary than forward spirals because the falls are never as bad (since the toe pick just slows you down when you go backwards, but a toepick catch while going forward is almost impossible, for me at least, to recover from), BUT it's very hard to practice backwards spirals if there are other people on the ice. Only do those when the ice is almost empty.

If you instructor showed you one,

[kimberley801]

I taught myself a spiral, and when the class finally got to it in lessons, I didn't need much correcting.

Practice off ice, watch others do spirals, and be sure to stretch really well. Make sure you can hold the position off ice first, and don't ever let that toepick touch the ice. That translates to instant faceplant.

As for the spiral position, keep your head up and arms level to begin with (you can change arm positions once more advanced). Having uneven arms/shoulders could throw off your balance. ARch your back and don't bend over too far - try to keep the body upright. The leg should be turned out so the toe is not pointing straight down. Also, try to point the toe. Having both legs straight is best, and will take strength and flexibilty to achieve. Having the free leg hip height or higher is ideal.

[Sessy]

Well you can't *entirely* learn it by yourself, but you can do some exercises by yourself which will make you "get" the spiral in lessons MUCH faster!
The beauty of a spiral is that the only thing you really need a lot of is balance, and you can train that... off-ice!

In fact, one time on a public skate, I saw a girl stumble around on rental skates, barely able to skate. She saw me do a biellmann spiral and asked to teach her. After extensive warning about how dangerous it could be and a display of her flexibility, I showed her how to grab the blade without blocking the shoulder, and she did one of the most stable biellmann spirals I've ever seen. This girl was barely able to skate forward, but she did biellmann spirals (or a semblance of them) on top of riding horses in the circus daily. So she had exceptional balance and stability and it was quite easy for her to do one on ice!

So here's some exercises you can do to get or improve your spiral. Please make sure to wear unrestrictive clothing when doing this: pajamas are okay, as are sportswear, jeans are not.

1. The basic position
- Stand straight up, with your arms to your sides, but not entirely to your sides: if you look plain forward, you should be able to see both hands at the same time out of your eyecorners.
- Flatten your hands, and put some tension on your hands and arms and shoulders, kind of like if you were standing in a round cage and trying to press against the walls of the cage.
- Now, slowly let one of your legs rise behind you. Keep both knees stretched through.
- Now, when you feel you cannot pull up the leg behind you any further, start leaning forward with your body. When you do this, your back leg will come up even further, if you keep the same tension in your lower back as you did when you felt the leg wouldn't go up any further anymore.
- Keep looking up with your face, not down at the floor!
- Keep tension on the arms as described above, and use them for balance. Try to pull up your toes, as pressing down on the toes will result in you falling over the toepicks on the ice. What also helps against falling over on the ice is to keep a tension in your back, you should aim for your back to be a little hollow.
- Experiment with lifting both legs, everybody has a leg of preference, basically. I prefer to lift my right leg while standing on my left leg, but a friend of mine prefers to lift her left leg while standing on her right leg.
- Try to pull your leg up just a little higher every time, remember, a real spiral requires the back leg to be horizontal to the floor and both legs straight! But never pull the leg up so far as for it to hurt. If you feel sore the next day, try not pulling it up quite THAT far up. Have patience. Flexibility doesn't come overnight.
- When you can get into this position easily and stable, keeping your toes off the floor all the time, you can try this on ice. You should notice it's become quite easy, especially if you've been practicing this several times a week at home!

2. Keeping the leg behind you
One of the major issues with spirals is: where are you going? Your back leg is like a rudder on a boat, if it's not directly behind you, you won't go in a straight line. Also, a leg which is not directly behind you can pull you off-balance. The hard part is that you can't *see* where your leg is, and where it feels like your leg is, is usually not where it is! Confusing, huh? Here's an exercise.
- You should do this exercise when you can do exercise number 1 described above, and this exercise should never hurt!
- Find a surface, such as a table or a low closet. Remove all breakable objects from the top of this surface.
- Stand by this table/closet/etc, not facing it, not facing away from it, but turned sideways with the leg you will be lifting pressed against the side of this table/closet/etc. Get into a spiral position like I previously described (lift back leg to maximum, then slowly lean forward with your body) and now put your leg, the one which is behind you and lifted, on the surface of this table! Stretch both knees through. Ideally, the surface of the table would be just high enough for your leg to barely go on top of it.
- Oftentimes, this exercise is done at the boardings of a rink, with the skates on.
- Now, put your shoulder, the one on the side of the leaning leg, also on this table/closet/boarding/etc. If you can do this, you have the flexibility to do a real spiral.
- Now, make your shoulders level. That is, oftentimes when you put your one shoulder on the boarding, the other shoulder drops below. Pull up that shoulder. You'll notice that you have to work hard with the muscles in your back and shoulders to do this.
- You now have a correct body position. Remember the feeling of where your shoulders are and where your legs are, and try to do it on ice.

When you get really good with a spiral, it feels like you fly through the ice rink!


If you have any questions, please ask!
Oh and I'm gonna make a video for you to illustrate all this, just hold on...

Meanwhile, here is a youtube video of one of the other members of this board of spirals off-ice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugOWJYGKAwE

[Sessy]

Here's the video. And remember, look up, not down!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykLiaMI70MQ

[SkatingOnClouds]

Interesting. My current coach teaches that you must get the upper body down level with the ice first, before lifting the free leg. I am sure I originally learned it the way Sessy describes, with lifting the leg as high as you can before leaning the upper body down.

[Sessy]

As far as beginners are concerned, at our club they're basically just concerned you don't go over your toepicks and don't do arabesque instead of a real spiral, and don't really care which way you do it.
From what I understand, the idea is eventually to have it all happen simultaneously, but I could be wrong.


Ask doubletoe, she probably knows the rulebook on this :)

[Clarice]

Say...I've always wanted to learn to do a Spiral. The closest I've got was seeing my coach do hers for me. But does anyone know if it's possible to also teach yourself a Spiral,and if so...how would you go about it? Thanks.

If I remember correctly, FSWer, you're still having problems with your two foot glides. You'll need to learn that first, and then a one foot glide, before you can try a spiral on the ice. You could practice getting into a spiral position off the ice now, though, so you'll be ready to try it on the ice later. Can you balance on one foot off ice? If you can, try Sessy's exercises - you could even hold on to the back of a chair at first.

[Query]

you don't go over your toepicks and don't do arabesque instead of a real spiral

What is the exact difference?

I though the ISI just wanted to use the same name as the dance community, when they switched from teaching LTS "spiral" to "forward arabesque". (Though the ISI handbook added more flexibility - backward arch and head up.)

[CanAmSk8ter]

I think of an arabesque the way I was taught in ballet, with the upper body not going forward much at all. In a spiral, your upper body goes down toward the ice more, with just your shoulders pulling up and back.

FSWer, you need to be able to do a really good one-foot glide before you're ready to try spirals. Before I let my students try spirals, they have to be able to hold a one-foot glide for five to ten seconds going in a straight line the entire time. I usually make them do several holding my hands first- it's not uncommon to hit your toepick and fall on a spiral, and because you go down face-first, it can be a dangerous fall. Also, keep in mind that spirals are a somewhat dangerous thing to do on a crowded public session because of the risk of kicking someone else. I'm not sure I'd recommend it.

[jazzpants]

What is the exact difference?

I though the ISI just wanted to use the same name as the dance community, when they switched from teaching LTS "spiral" to "forward arabesque". (Though the ISI handbook added more flexibility - backward arch and head up.)
From what little I know about ballet... you go on the toe in an arabesque off ice. If you try to do an arabesque ON ICE and you're going forwards, you will trip over on your toe picks!!!

For FSWer: Please do NOT try a spiral until you can do REALLY good one foot glides and are confident with your edging where you can adjust your body in different ways and still glide out. I know I sure as heck had a hard time getting to the spiral position partly out of fear that I would trip on my toe picks or run over a rut or something and I'm definitely NOT a beginning skater...

[Mrs Redboots]

What is the exact difference?

I though the ISI just wanted to use the same name as the dance community, when they switched from teaching LTS "spiral" to "forward arabesque". (Though the ISI handbook added more flexibility - backward arch and head up.)
I thought that the spiral is what the edge does; one just does it in an arabesque position!

[Skittl1321]

I thought that the spiral is what the edge does; one just does it in an arabesque position!

I think there are small difference in the alignment of the spiral and a proper ballet arabesque. In an arabesque the upper body should never be leaned over- a strong spiral is more in a penche arabesque position. A weak spiral is usually more to the side than an arabesque allows (where the leg should be directly behind you)

At least I know that while my spiral is generally complimented (for an adult) if I tried to do an arabesque like that in front of my (now former, since I stopped) ballet instructor I would be SHOT for it. I have a good arabesque, but it is MUCH lower than my spiral, because of the way the line is done is different.

I think it is better to compare the spiral to a gymnasts scale- which is LIKE an arabesque, but NOT the same thing.

[mdvask8r]

We have a WINNER!! Mrs. Redboots hits it on the nose.

[smelltheice]

A true spiral with a straightened skating leg would pull onto the back of the blade in similar fashion to a good parallel spin. (Sorry if somebody already said that but I didn't read all the thread entries!!)

[Skittl1321]

We have a WINNER!! Mrs. Redboots hits it on the nose.

I really don't think spirals are in arabesque position.
A strong arabesque reaches 90 degrees. I'm not sure spirals even COUNT until they are at 90 degrees. (For example: http://www.abt.org/education/dictionary/terms/arabesque.html) The angles that skaters get is because the alignment changes, and it is not good technique in ballet. Sure ballet dancers can get higher- high level students and professionals often do and keep the correct line but even these are much lower than most spirals, but to get the 160-180 extension many elite skaters get, ballet dancers have to go into a penche arabesque (http://www.abt.org/education/dictionary/terms/penche.html), which is not the same position. But the students with a 60 degree arabesque is doing it correctly, where a 60 degree spiral- not so good.

[Sessy]

I, too found the arabesque in ballet much harder to do than spirals.

[FSWer]

From what little I know about ballet... you go on the toe in an arabesque off ice. If you try to do an arabesque ON ICE and you're going forwards, you will trip over on your toe picks!!!

For FSWer: Please do NOT try a spiral until you can do REALLY good one foot glides and are confident with your edging where you can adjust your body in different ways and still glide out. I know I sure as heck had a hard time getting to the spiral position partly out of fear that I would trip on my toe picks or run over a rut or something and I'm definitely NOT a beginning skater...


I didn't know that there was even a Spial CALLED a LTS. Spial.

[Skittl1321]

I didn't know that there was even a Spial CALLED a LTS. Spial.

There isn't. What the poster was saying is when the ISI learn to skate (LTS) program stopped calling it a spiral and started calling it an arabesque they did it to have language more familiar to people, since many of the students may have been dancers.

FSWer- just so you know, Spiral has an R in between the i and the a.

[Luckster013]

If you do decide to try a spiral, the NUMBER ONE thing to remember is to keep your back arched and your chin up, otherwise you will faceplant.

[FSWer]

If you do decide to try a spiral, the NUMBER ONE thing to remember is to keep your back arched and your chin up, otherwise you will faceplant.


What exactly does that mean? BTW. how is the long name for Spiral pronounced?

[Skittl1321]

What exactly does that mean? BTW. how is the long name for Spiral pronounced?

Are you wondering what it means to keep your back arched and your chin up or what faceplant means?

Back arched and chin up are fairly self explanatory, but that means don't lean too far forward and lift your shoulders up and arch your back so that it creates a "C" like shape.

A faceplant is when you fall face forward onto the ice. The 2nd fall in this is a good example of a faceplant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-JwSCArS2Y&feature=related (I usually hate fall montages, but that's a good example of why you have to be careful of your weight not being too far forward in a spiral. This one is partnered, but it's the same without one- though because she had someone holding onto her she fell more on her chest than her face.)

What do you mean the long name for spiral? Are you talking about arabesque (which, IMO is not the same thing)? It's pronounced sort of like- air-ah-besk

[doubletoe]

to get the 160-180 extension many elite skaters get, ballet dancers have to go into a penche arabesque (http://www.abt.org/education/dictionary/terms/penche.html)

Wow, I never realized that! So what we really do in figure skating is an "arabesque penchee" (pronounced "air-ah-besk pon-shay")

[Skittl1321]

Wow, I never realized that! So what we really do in figure skating is an "arabesque penchee" (pronounced "air-ah-besk pon-shay")

It's probably a better way of describing it- but since alignment is SO important in ballet, and secondary in skating- I bet some ballet dancers would still take umbrage at the term.

[FSWer]

Are you wondering what it means to keep your back arched and your chin up or what faceplant means?

Back arched and chin up are fairly self explanatory, but that means don't lean too far forward and lift your shoulders up and arch your back so that it creates a "C" like shape.

A faceplant is when you fall face forward onto the ice. The 2nd fall in this is a good example of a faceplant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-JwSCArS2Y&feature=related (I usually hate fall montages, but that's a good example of why you have to be careful of your weight not being too far forward in a spiral. This one is partnered, but it's the same without one- though because she had someone holding onto her she fell more on her chest than her face.)

What do you mean the long name for spiral? Are you talking about arabesque (which, IMO is not the same thing)? It's pronounced sort of like- air-ah-besk


Airabick,right? So I need to have my sholders up and leaning my head back,right?

[Skittl1321]

Airabick,right? So I need to have my sholders up and leaning my head back,right?

air-a-besk, not bick.

You don't want to be leaning back, like tilting your head up to the sky, but you want to pull your shoulders backwards- you definetly don't want to be leaning forward.

But remember- before you can do the spiral at all, you need a really really strong one foot glide.

[FSWer]

air-a-besk, not bick.

You don't want to be leaning back, like tilting your head up to the sky, but you want to pull your shoulders backwards- you definetly don't want to be leaning forward.

But remember- before you can do the spiral at all, you need a really really strong one foot glide.


Oh.....like Desk..right? BTW. when you do an Airabesk (aka Spiral)...why do skaters glide rather then just end up with their blades pressing down on the ice for balance?

[flippet]

Oh.....like Desk..right? BTW. when you do an Airabesk (aka Spiral)...why do skaters glide rather then just end up with their blades pressing down on the ice for balance?


Because they're moving before they go into the spiral position. It would be very difficult to hold that position on ice and be standing still--gliding actually makes it easier.

[Sessy]

BTW I don't think there's many falls in figure skating that, as a general category, hurt worse than falling forward over your toepicks. They can literally knock the wind out of you for a few minutes. So once you've had one of those sneak up on you out of the blue, and you still want to continue skating - you know you're tough enough for skating. :mrgreen:

When you do a spiral or a 1-foot glide or whatever, the reason you start to glide is because you have speed to start with. Mr. Newton was a famous physicist who was sitting in his garden once, and suddenly, an apple fell on his head. That kind of hurt, so first he got angry, and then he started thinking about why everything falls down. So he formulated the law of gravity. And then he formulated the Three Laws of Motion (or actually, both together but that's a little hard to explain).
The first law of these Laws is:
an object that is moving, wants to stay moving (you know how difficult it can be to stop sometimes when you run really fast and you need to stop suddenly? Or when you suddenly brake on the bike or bus, how you almost go flying forward? That's because you, too, are an object in the sense of the Motion Laws, and you want to continue moving too.

So, when you have some speed in a certain direction, like forward, and you simply step out onto 1 foot or even 2 feet and continue to glide, you are an object in motion, cuz you're moving forward! And Newton's law says that if that's the case, you will want to remain in motion. By want he doesn't really mean what you, individually want, but what your body wants to do as part of the laws of nature. So, when you step out into a glide or a spiral, your body will continue to move. If you don't want that to happen, you need to stop somehow, for that purpose, different methods of braking were invented: hockey stop, snowplow stop, t-stop... Sometimes you see people braking a little to lose some speed before they do a difficult element, such as a jump or a series of footsteps.

So, how come it can happen that you push off forward, but you end up going in a little curve and sideways? That's newton's second law. Newton's second law says that objects will only move in the direction, in which some force - visible or not - pushes or pulls them. That's gravity: the earth's gravity is what pulls the apple down when it falls off the tree. It's what makes you fall when you trip over your toepicks. But that's not all.
Your skates have edges, inside and outside ones. Those edges, when they connect to the ice, allow for the ice to push at your skates. Now to push, you need to be pretty strong, pretty forceful right? So that push, that's a force too, even though you can't really see it - unlike if I were to give you a push, then you'd see it, and you'd probably get angry with me for pushing you. But the ice also pushes you. And because it pushes a little sideways against your skate, it changes your direction just a little. That's how come you don't change direction very suddenly on ice by yourself, but only gradually, in a curving line. So when you skate a curving like, there are (simplified) three forces working on you:
1. The force of your forward push-off, which wants to take you forward
2. The force of the sideways push the ice gives you
So this is why you go mostly forward, but also a little sideways, going in a sort of circle-like curve. And you know why you eventually stop, unless you push off again? That's the third force!
3. The force of the wind in your face, called friction (by air). :-)

And when you fall, it hurts right? That's because the ice (or the floor) hits you back! newton's third law says, there's an equal and opposite reaction to every action. So when you take the action of falling, you smack onto the ice. You think the ice likes to be smacked? Of course not, so it reacts by hitting you back just as hard as you hit it! And that's what hurts.


So to glide a perfectly straight line, you must make sure that the ice can't push you, by the way! You do this by skating an absolute flat, so neither of the edges can be pushed against by the ice. But if you want to do more complicated figures, like a 3-turn, it's good that the ice pushes you, because it helps you to turn so you don't have to work as hard! And if the ice weren't hitting you back when you fell onto it, there would be dents all over the rink from all the falling people, and it would be impossible to skate. So the ice isn't evil, you know.

Isn't physics cool?
(if you don't get any of this, please don't hesitate to ask).

[ibreakhearts66]

I can do a biellmann spiral at a speed of like an inch a second, and also in blade guards off-the-ice. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen: I'll bet I'm not the only one who can do that, either. But it's sooooo much easier if you have at least a little bit of speed, it's like the edge supports you by adding a strip on each side of the blade that keeps you from tilting. Actually I think that's what makes hydroblades off-ice harder.

BTW I don't think there's many falls in figure skating that, as a general category, hurt worse than falling forward over your toepicks. They can literally knock the wind out of you for a few minutes. So once you've had one of those sneak up on you out of the blue, and you still want to continue skating - you know you're tough enough for skating. :mrgreen:

agreed. i hate toepicks. i was so scared to move up blades bc of the toepicks. i would do quads in coronation aces of i could. when you catch your toepick, you hit the ice before you even realize something is wrong. and, since it comes so unexpectedly, you can't really turn or brace yourself.

but speed definitely does help with spirals. you can teach yourself a spiral, like others said, but i'm not sure i would necessarily recommend it.

maybe a friend can help you learn? it would certainly make the whole process easier

[Sessy]

The thing that helps against catching toepicks on the ice is pulling up those toes in the skates. It also helps against falling over forward on roller skates, btw, which is even nastier than the same fall on skates (imagine all the hurt of the fall, PLUS your skin being taken off your hands, elbows, chin, knees and chest)

[Ellyn]

From what little I know about ballet... you go on the toe in an arabesque off ice.

Not necessarily. The examples in Skittl1321's links show arabesques with the whole foot on the floor.

[jazzpants]

Not necessarily. The examples in Skittl1321's links show arabesques with the whole foot on the floor.
Which is why I added "What little I know about ballet...." (I know pretty much NOTHING about ballet!!! And I have taken classes for a few months and am just starting back up again with my ballet/personal trainer guy... :lol: :P :twisted: )

The reason I mentioned that is b/c when I was in group lessons, I had a former ballerina in my class and she was warned repeated by our group coach to NOT go on her toe (or else go face plant...) Thankfully, she didn't again but anyway, she did tell me that she's so used to going on the toe...

[Skittl1321]

Which is why I added "What little I know about ballet...." (I know pretty much NOTHING about ballet!!! And I have taken classes for a few months and am just starting back up again with my ballet/personal trainer guy... :lol: :P :twisted: )

The reason I mentioned that is b/c when I was in group lessons, I had a former ballerina in my class and she was warned repeated by our group coach to NOT go on her toe (or else go face plant...) Thankfully, she didn't again but anyway, she did tell me that she's so used to going on the toe...

It's a good warning. Arabesques are not always done with a releve (to pointe- on the full toe, or demi-pointe- the ball of the foot) but once you learn the position they mostly are. Most ballet dancers would have the habit of going over their toepicks if they tried to take this position without thinking it through, I think.

[sk8lady]

You should also be moving at a pretty good clip, unless you want to learn the way I did, by falling on your face about a bazillion times.:D

[Helen88]

Ohh god I've had at least thirty of those toepick falls...some hilarious to watch, others that have ended in swollen knees and bruises everywhere. I kinda fly a little when I do it...like, my chest hits the ice first...then my knees...then the rest of my body 8O

Not to put you off or anything :)

[Sessy]

I walked around with bruised ribs and hips for a while after one of those falls. It was really sunny and hot and I was wearing a bikini. My bikini is in army camouflage colors, and my green and brown bruises matched the color perfectly. LOL! :mrgreen:
My ribs hurt for like three months every time I laughed afterward. :mrgreen: But somehow out on the ice i didn't feel the pain at the time.