My Jackson Proflex Rock ! - and they Fit!

[SkatingOnClouds]

Well they finally came on Wednesday, and I have to talk about it here cos my husband was so angry when he found out I got them that I daren't talk about it at home. So please excuse my gushing and gloating, gotta share my excitement with someone.

I got Jackson Proflex, specially made with double modifications to fit my enormous bunions and weird toes. They are very wide - at first glance you can't tell which is left & right boot. But gosh they fit, and they feel so good. Light, supple, and just comfortable. My old boots I had to cut large holes in the side to accommodate my bunions, and even then they pressed in and my bunions got bigger and I developed bunions on the outer of my foot as well. It is hard to describe what it feels like to finally have boots that are wide enough for my feet.
It feels strange too to have nothing pressing across the front part of my foot where I used to lace tightest.

Scary on first try, mainly because of the blades. Jackson do this weird thing when they fitted the Matrix system blades. They put a permanent screw at the toe, and a slider at the heel - go figure. Why on earth would you put in a permanent screw on new skates?
I kept tripping over my enormous toe-picks the other night, couldn't stroke or do a one foot glide even. Today coach realised they set the blade 1/2" too far back from the toe. She set them for me today, and they were so much better I hugged her. She said they set up hers and two other skaters' matrix blades exactly the same as mine, so she knows now what to look for when one of her skater gets them.

Immediately I can now do slaloms which are very tight curves, and fast. Spreadeagles (I don't have much turn out) are much better. Spins are different because of the different rocker radius compared to my old Phantoms, and different spin spot profile. Uprights are fine, but sit spins I can't do yet. Weird cos they were the one spin working for me before, and the one most people find improvement on with the hinged boots.

Unfortunately the new blades didn't provide the miracle cure I hoped for on my backspins, so I have to accept that is just poor technique :roll:

Jumps feel, well, weird. I only did some small, slow ones today cos the blades weren't permanently mounted. Tomorrow I'll have a proper go.
And spirals, which some have said might be an issue, seem fine.

The hinged boots sure are going to make me fix some posture and laziness issues. If I am slack in stroking around, because the toe points, I catch my picks easily. Coach did say they'd fix my tendancy to learn forward too much on my picks too.

Anyway, for those who managed to read this far, thanks for "listening".
Now have to face husband tomorrow, he wants to have a little chat about how much I am spending on skating. Something to look forward to, eh?;)

[Sessy]

Well, I'm not sure what your medical insurance covers or not, but it might be cheaper to get skates that fit well than to get those bone growths surgically removed down the road. And maybe you could make an agreement with him, like no new costumes for the next 2 years or so (I'm sure you can recycle some old ones or buy used? Maybe from somebody on this forum form Australia?)

BTW how the heck do you cut holes in skates?!

[Skate@Delaware]

Karen, i'm so glad you got skates that finally fit!!!! I do remember the "holes" in your skates...you will have to take your husband out on a few dates, sort of smooth relations between the two of you if you know what I mean? ;)

It won't take you long now to get your backspin!!!! If I can get mine, then there is hope for the rest of the world!!!

I'm very happy for you!!!!!!!!

[Isk8NYC]

Congratulations - I'll bump the Skate Picture thread so you can show us what the new skates look like.

Listen, skates are the ONLY required piece of equipment in this sport.
After the major surgery you did to make the current skates fit, why would he be worried about it?

Skimping on skates leads to injuries and your bunions will get worse if you don't have properly fitted skates. I've heard of people needing surgery to repair bunions, so good skates are a better use of money. (Could you get a note from your orthopedist to allow you a tax deduction for the skates?)

Congratulations - keep us posted on the differences you feel in these skates.

[dbny]

Congratulations! Remind DH that skating is keeping you fit, which is worth a lot more than anything else you could spend that money on.

[SkatingOnClouds]

BTW how the heck do you cut holes in skates?!

With a sharp craft knife. If you scroll through the "Post a picture of your skates" thread, you'll see a picture of my starting point. After punching them out during heat moulding to the maximum I could get, it still wasn't enough. So I made a sort of star shaped series of cuts, but that still didn't give me eough, so I actually removed the entire part of the skate over the bunion area.

It's really interesting actually, cos the boot was about 6 layers thick in that part of the boot, layers of all sorts of materials.

Over the top I glued a patch of white leather which I sewed around before sticking on, almost looked like it was part of the boot. Then with my usual skate tape over that, well, most people didn't notice.

[Rusty Blades]

Welcome to the ProFlex crowd! :mrgreen:

I have had mine for nearly a year and I love them.

[SkatingOnClouds]

Update - Aaaargh!!!!!!!

They don't fit! After skating in them 4 times, I have discovered they are too big everywhere - except across the bunions, where they are uncomfortably tight still. A bit more heat moulding required there. But how to stop my right heel slipping up & down?

I am not getting on with the Matrix Freestyle blades at all. Coach says it is because they are narrower than I am used to. She says that I have to get my edges cleanly otherwise I will skid. And I do skid, a lot. She says that this combination of boots & blades require correct posture and technique. 8O No wonder she recommended them.

I have a competition in 4 weeks. At the moment I cannot jump properly, can't do loops at all, whereas I was putting them on the end of everything up to lutz. Spins, well I finally got into a sit spin last night, but that's the first time. I can do a nice stork, but that is it.

I am fighting the knee-jerk reaction to switch the blades back to my very old, past-it Phantoms until I can afford new ones. Or just skating in my old boots & blades until after the competition.

Anyone else go through this?

[Rusty Blades]

For the heel, get your fitter to pinch the heels in a bit. It is probably a wider heel than you should have but I understand they can be pinched.

(I wish my boots were BIGGER! I just can't get it through my fitter's thick skull that I want more "ease" - he wont listen - he's been "factory trained" and will not listen!)

There's no doubt that hinged boots require some adjustment! I found some muscles that I hadn't been using because I had been leaning against the tongue or cuff for certain moves and you simply can't do that with Proflex.

I didn't change blades when I got my Proflex, I stayed with my MK Pros and adjusted to the new boots. Maybe, for your competition, it would be worth switching back to your old blades?

[coskater64]

I have the pro flex as well and they do take some time to get used to, they also require a lot more strength throughout your entire leg and torso. You shouldn't change back even though you may want to change blades. That being said it usually takes longer to get used to a new blade versus a new boot. The is especially true if it is a different radius, thinner/wider and has a different rocker. I struggled getting used to a MK dance blade when I used a Pattern 99 for free skate. You will get used to it:D

[Bunny Hop]

But how to stop my right heel slipping up & down?
I found some 'heel liners' that fixed this problem for me (my right foot is significantly smaller than my left foot, so I have some slippage as a result). They are basically thin leather cushions with adhesive on one side. You stick them to the inside of your boots at the heel, and they give just enough extra thickness to stop the slipping. They need replacing fairly regularly unfortunately, as they stop sticking after a while, and you need to put them in at least 12 hours before skating so the adhesive holds properly.

These are the ones I originally had Scholl Heel Liners (http://www.paydenspharmacy.co.uk/product.asp?parent_id=2028&dept_id=3244&sku=01993S), which I bought from a Chemists, and should be available in Australia, though I did find some better ones in a shoe shop when I was in the US last year, so they're definitely about!

[sue123]

I've got no experience with those boots, but when I had Jackson's, my foot managed to shrink about half a size, and the boots were too loose, my heel kept slipping out of them. I went to the skate shop, and they put them in the oven and then basically pressed the sides of the heels together. It did help for a bit, but I ended up getting new skates anyway, that were a size smaller than the Jackson's. But maybe they could do something similar with your boots? Press the sides of the heel together to help with slippage?

[SkatingOnClouds]

Thanks everyone!

I don't have a boot fitter here, the local people know just enough to measure for a boot, but we don't have heat moulding, punching out or pinching, except what I can do myself. Thanks to forum member Russiet, I learned how to make a very effective jig to punch out, so I will do that for the bunion area, but don't know how to go about pinching the heels in.

Bunny Hop, using those heel liners to prevent the slipping is an excellent idea, thanks for that!

Overnight I made the decision to shelve the new boots & blades until after the comp. I need to be working on my program and polishing elements at this stage, not learning how to skate again. I have felt a lot better today after making that decision.

Once the comp is over I shall try again, and then decidde whether to ditch the Matrix Freestyle and replace them with another set of Phantoms, or whether to persevere.

For now though, I need to be able to jump again.

[Skate@Delaware]

Is there a boot shop there? Maybe they can "squeeze" the heel in. You must have narrow heels. The pro-flex does come in split sizes just like the regular boots. I know this because we spent over 3 hours with a fitter getting Jacksons and altho I didn't get the flex boots, my husband did...and I learned a lot.

If you can't get them squeezed/pinched, you might have to send them somewhere to get that done, OR get the pads like someone else suggested.

Then, next time you get boots, order a split size with a narrower heel.

My regular skates were stock sized and my heels slipped for 3 years before I went to a fitter and found out I needed AAA-heels (with a C/D-width ball).

[aussieskater]

SkatingOnClouds, I sent you a PM.

[SkatingOnClouds]

Thanks AussieSkater, looks like some useful info there !

I skated in the old skates this morning. Coach was a bit disappointed, she thought I should stick with the new ones, but I did not regret my decision.
Spins were rubbish, although my camels are starting to come back. But the best thing was I could jump again. To me, it's worth it.

I'll try the new ones again after the comp.

[Virtualsk8r]

I know a few skaters at all levels in Proflex - and it took the high level skater about a month to get accustomed to the boot, while a lower level skater had no adjustment period at all (axel, single jumps with double sal) and now has all the doubles.

One skater I have has the Freestyle blades after switching from Hans Gerswiller (name from the past!) and is finding 3-turns skidded and landings less secure....probably because of the narrower blade. But others in the Freestyle have no difficulties.

Good luck with the Proflex...I am a big fan. You'll notice less knee and back pain as well as fewer ankle injuries. BTW Proflex can be custom-made for your narrow heel as well. I have a skater with really narrow feet (Riedell 3A toe/4A heel) that now has a pair of custom proflex that fit!

[saras]

I found some 'heel liners' that fixed this problem for me (my right foot is significantly smaller than my left foot, so I have some slippage as a result). They are basically thin leather cushions with adhesive on one side. You stick them to the inside of your boots at the heel, and they give just enough extra thickness to stop the slipping. They need replacing fairly regularly unfortunately, as they stop sticking after a while, and you need to put them in at least 12 hours before skating so the adhesive holds properly.

These are the ones I originally had Scholl Heel Liners (http://www.paydenspharmacy.co.uk/product.asp?parent_id=2028&dept_id=3244&sku=01993S), which I bought from a Chemists, and should be available in Australia, though I did find some better ones in a shoe shop when I was in the US last year, so they're definitely about!

Silipos or Bunga also makes a heel sleeve - it's like a thin (think tights) sock without a toe, with a gel pad around the heel area. In a former pair of boots, I lost a lot of weight and my feet got narrower - I used those until the boots broke down and I needed new one (this was before I had the Proflex boots - which I've had for over a year and a half now and they're not broken down yet ;) ).

[SkatingOnClouds]

Silipos or Bunga also makes a heel sleeve - it's like a thin (think tights) sock without a toe, with a gel pad around the heel area.

Yeah, I had wondered about those, might look into them, as I usually use a gel ankle sleeve anyway.

By the way, I don't have narrow heels, my heels are quite normal. It is the ball of the foot where I have huge bunions that's the problem. I got specially made modified fittings to account for the bunions, but it seems Jacksons made the assumption this meant I also had abnormally wide heels, which I don't.

[Sessy]

With a sharp craft knife. If you scroll through the "Post a picture of your skates" thread, you'll see a picture of my starting point. After punching them out during heat moulding to the maximum I could get, it still wasn't enough. So I made a sort of star shaped series of cuts, but that still didn't give me eough, so I actually removed the entire part of the skate over the bunion area.

It's really interesting actually, cos the boot was about 6 layers thick in that part of the boot, layers of all sorts of materials.

Over the top I glued a patch of white leather which I sewed around before sticking on, almost looked like it was part of the boot. Then with my usual skate tape over that, well, most people didn't notice.

So you did this yourself? Wow I'm impressed!

Thanks so much for the description (I did see the pictures I didn't realize they were *cuts*). Maybe I'll try something similar myself... :) (on the old boots on my roller skates first obviously!)

[SkatingOnClouds]

Definitely not a procedure for the faint-hearted. You have to be desperate, which I was. It was make these fit or stay in boots that were way too big and way too weak for me.

I couldn't afford skates at all really, and picked up the Grafs off Ebay from a store clearance. It took a while to get them fitting those bunions, but they've been great.

[Query]

How wonderful you found boots that don't hurt! When I finally found some boot mods that made my feet stop hurting, it felt like heaven.

I suppose Pro Flex boots don't need to break in, cuz the leather doesn't have to flex?

You are way more advanced than me, but could changing your heel height help? If you have trouble putting weight on the backs of your blades, higher heels make it easier to weight them - until you get so high (as I have) that you start to pitch forwards, or your back starts to hurt because you need too much backwards bend, at which point it makes it much harder.

If you lack full contact with any part of your foot bottom below the ankle (other than the toes), that makes weight shifts (like are used in spins) harder to control. Though you want no contact at your bunions.

Reshape your insole but applying athletic tape underneath. Play with lowering your heel and raising your toe, and vice versa, to see if changing heel height would help. Start by cutting a thinner insole if you need to make room. Trace out your old one on felt (glue layers together if it's too thin) or leather, and cut. If your heel or anywhere else is too loose on the side or back of the foot, make it a little too large there, and let it come up besides your foot.

I'm still no good at spins and twizzles, but playing with toe and heel height helped a lot. I haven't had the courage yet to sand the heel of my expensive boots (and appropriate mods to the rest of the outsole so it doesn't warp the blade), but I'm playing around with some cheap boots I bought used. (If your heel is too low, you can glue on more leather.)

>Today coach realised they set the blade 1/2" too
>far back from the toe.

OMG. How could a big respectable company like Jackson get something basic like that wrong?

Standard practice is your mount should only be 1/4" shorter than your insoles. If there is room to be set 1/2 inch further back, it's borderline that they may have used the wrong length blades. Did they?

Not many people would have had the courage to cut the boot. I bet people came up to you and asked many questions! Great way to "break the ice".

BTW, tape can do the same thing as heel inserts. If raising the insole (with tape or anything else, or using a thicker insole in general) doesn't help with the too big fit, you have to add stuff inside the boot. I've been playing with stick-on felt lining, will play with glueing in leather. Tried just taping the inside with athletic tape, but tape rubs off after 2 or 3 skates.

Have fun.

Hubby may be really upset with the cost of the boots if you don't use them. You had the courage to cut your old boots - I bet you could mod the new ones in a few hours.

[Query]

Just added somethings above, and am adding a few things below.

If your teacher things you skate better with the new skates, maybe you do.

Just thought of something else. If a thicker insole (or adding tape or felt underneath) doesn't help, because the boot shape isn't right for that, could you use thick socks (they may slip a little, bad idea in the long run), and cut or sand them on the inside or outside where your bunions are so there is no pressure there? (I've never tried sanding socks, so this is just an idea.)

I see from another post that you modifed G-clamps (C-clamps to americans) to punch stuff out. I used a ball and ring pliers, maybe $35 (USD), which are made to punch leather so don't need to be modified, but the idea is the same. Since some of the places that needed punching weren't circular, I had to move and punch again. Took a lot of time, but it worked.

BTW, what was missing from the descriptions of the old discussions you had on punching leather was that it helps a lot to use heat (a hair drier works), and oil (like Lexol, or water if you are willing to risk cracking or rotting the leather, or oil doesn't do enough - some people use steam if they are brave and possibly foolish), and you have to retighten. You heat, tighten as much as you can. Wait an hour. Heat, tighten again (leather stretches gradually). Wait 8 hours, heat and retighten. And Again. And again if you are desperate. If you used water, you should oil the leather to recondition, or it will rot or crack. You may need to heat and re-mold to your feet after this is all done, because all that heating destroyed the rest of the fit. And never ever leave your boots in a hot car. They will unstretch themselves, and you have to start over.

[SkatingOnClouds]

Thanks Query, I used all sorts of methods to stretch my grafs. Heat moulding with a hot air gun worked best, with the afore-mentioned jog for (as Russiet so eloquently put it) punching them out mercilessly. Fortunately the Jacksons won't require that degree of attack (and nor should they, being supposedly modified to fit).

I have decided that I will buy a pair of Bunga Archilles heel pads. Worn over stockings and with the padding, they might be enough to fill out the back of the boot, but because the stop short of the bunion area, won't make that any tighter.

It's all part of the journey.:roll: Living in a small, out of the way, part of the world sure makes you resourceful.