Mounting blades

[abbi_1990]

Hi,

I got new skates last week, they are Jackson Freestyles with an Ulitma mark IV blade. They came with a temporary mount, and after having a lesson with my coach yesterday, we determined that they blades ARE in the right place for me. So i need to do the permanent mount. I have a few questions though:

Before anyone says go to the proshop, i brought these boots from a proshop that is a 3hour drive from my house so it is not possible to go back there to get the permanent mount done. There isnt a proshop near to me where i can get the blades mounted, and my coach said that i should do them myself at home.

1) i read on the Jackson/Ultima webiste that the Ultima blades have a flat sole plate unlike other manufacterers, and since boots have a curved sole, the sole fo the boot needs to be sanded down so that it is flat before the blade can be mounted. Has anyone experienced this?? I am worried that doing this will mean that the blades are no longer in the right place.

2) do i need to lightly sand the soles of the boots down before applying sno-seal?

3) How many screws should i put in? and where should i put them?


TIA

[Kim to the Max]

Are you sure there is no one closer who has experience mounting blades? I understand that 3 hours is a long way to go, so I don't want to suggest that, but skates are a big investment, and you don't want to mess them up trying to mount the blades yourself....My suggestion would be to check with other skaters (or their parents) at your rink to see if there is anyone locally who they trust with their skates...I personally would do whatever I needed to, to get someone who has a ton of experience to work on my skates....

[abbi_1990]

well there is a guy in the next town but he is a dealer for 1 particular brand of skates - i brought a pair of these skates from him but unfortuantley they wernt fitted properly and they were not really situable for my feet so i have had to buy new skates. therefore its a bit awkward with him, and also, my coach told me not to get him to mount the blades because he (the proshop guy) would not be happy about it.

[Skittl1321]

If the blades are in the correct place, you can just add a few extra screws for a permanent mount. (Don't use ALL the holes, just a few more).

This was what the "skate guy" at our rink said to me when I asked him about permanent mounting (really)

Me: Hi. A friend told me you're good with skates. I just got these and need to have the blades permanently mounted, my coach has decided they are in the right place, so I need to know if I can put the rest of the screws in, or if you can do it how much it will cost.

Him: You have man? He has drill, goes vrrrr, vrrr. He use that.

Me: Oh okay.

So basically if you have a drill, or even an electric screwdriver you can put them in. My Jackson skates came with extra screws, but I noticed whomever did the blades I currently skated in used a random assortment of screws, some lay flush to the blade, others are bubbleheaded and stick out a bit. As long as it holds the blade on.

[abbi_1990]

lol, yeah, i think we have an electric screwdriver and maybe an electric drill.

did you use Ultima blades on your Jackson skates?

the temporary screws in the skates at the moment are bubble headed, and the ones that came with the skates to put in the rest of the hole are flat headed.

at the moment there is a small gap between the sole of the boot and the mounting plate of the blade... is this ok?

[Skate@Delaware]

Ok, if you have a drill and some drill bits and a screwdriver attachment you are all set. here is what you do (I have done this and it is NOT hard at all):

1-get out your dill bits and your screws (try to use stainless steel #6 if you can)-find one that is slightly smaller in size width-wise than the screw. Don't take into account the ribs of the screw...just the very inside. If you don't the hole will be too big!!!!

2-With the blade STILL ATTACHED TO THE BOOT, use a pencil, pen, marker, etc... make some marks where you are going to drill your holes. 2-3 on each side of the sole and 2 on each side of the heel of each boot will be enough (that is 1-2 for the toe, then the one back further from the temps, then of course, the heel)....your marks will be CIRCLES o not dots .

3-remove the blades.

4-treat your blades with Sno-Seal or some other type of water-proofing. Sanding is not necessary. I have NEVER sanded. Don't worry about it.

5-Drill your holes. Be sure to drill straight down! Don't go all the way through the boot. Remember, the ones into the sole will not be deep, the ones into the heel will be deeper!!!!!

6-Put your blades back on, be sure you have the right one onto the right boot. Short screws go on the sole, longer into the heel, start sloooowly if you are using the drill wiht the screwdriver attachement, watch out if you slip your hand could hit the blade (it hurts!!!)

7-Finish up with a manual screwdriver or ask a guy "You are so strong, I can't do this, could you PRETTY PLEASE finish this for me????" works for me every time!!! (mostly cause I'm lazy and I don't want to bust up my knuckles-let them do it). ;)

8-As the sole is tightened up with the blade, it will draw down. As you skate, it will also draw down. Remember to throw a screwdriver into your bag and tighten your screws every week.

TA-DA!!! you are done!!!

[smelltheice]

I concur with everything you said skate@delaware. I have always mounted my own blades with great success. The only thing I have never done is to remove the blades for drilling but that is just a personal preference to marking and removing. Either way will work. I guess it is because we had never heard of snoseal in the Uk when I last did a pair of skates!!!!

[sk8tmum]

Odd question; who is going to sharpen your blades? A good sharpener can - often - do a blade mount - ? Plus ... a couple of the Jacksons we got had slightly bent blades, and the sharpener had to slightly straighten them out.
I hope you aren't going to have to drive 3 hours away for a sharpening ... that would be awful.

(We're lucky; we've got a fantastic guy within a short drive, and he and his dad between them have 70 years of doing skates - he does international level all the way down to baby rec.)

[abbi_1990]

S@D: thanks for those instructions, they are really good. my dad is going to help me mount the blades this evening using your instructions :lol:

sk8tmum: hopefully the guy in the next town from me (where i got some boots which didnt fit properly) will still be willing to sharpen my blades if i havent upset him too much! otherwise ill get my friend to take them to him for me!

[Mrs Redboots]

My coach offers a blade mounting service for a small fee, and also collects skates to take them to be sharpened every few weeks. He doesn't sharpen them himself, though.

[Bill_S]

Looks like there are already a bunch of good suggestions, but if you want the *illustrated guide to blade mounting*, I posted notes about how to do it here...

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/skating/mounting_blades.html

sample pic...

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/skating/images/awl_holes_sml.jpg

[abbi_1990]

Hi Bill, thanks for the link to your guide, i have already looked at this (i found the link when i searched Skating Forums for blade mounting posts) and found it very informative so i will be printing it out to use along with S@D's instructions when i mount my blades this evening. I brought the silicone sealant like you used when mounting your blades.

[Skittl1321]

To answer the question- yes I did use Ultima Blades (Mirage) on my Jackson boots (Competitor)

The response you've recieved, were MUCH more helpful than the one I got when I was wondering (wrr wrrr). But I posted it to hopefully give you the confidence that this isn't a difficult thing.

[abbi_1990]

Skittl1231: thanks, that gives me confidence that it will be ok when i do it! are there gaps between the soles of your boots and the mounting plates of the blades?

[Skittl1321]

Skittl1231: thanks, that gives me confidence that it will be ok when i do it! are there gaps between the soles of your boots and the mounting plates of the blades?

Looking at it, it's not completley flush to the boot, but there is not a sizeable gap anywhere- about the size of a dime?

[abbi_1990]

yeah, i think mine is about the same size, i tried a 20p coin and it didnt fit under the gap.

heres a picture of what the gap looks like:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2352324021_0615ce670c.jpg?v=0

[Rusty Blades]

Don't forget to check your blades for straight before AND after mounting. It is not uncommon for mounting to put a twist or a bend in the blade. If that happens, you need figure out which screws you have to loosen to remove the twist and to put shims between the blade and boot at that location(s) until the blade tightens without twisting. You need a perfectly straight steel bar for that. (You can pick up a machinist's steel rule for about $10)

[singerskates]

If the blades are in the correct place, you can just add a few extra screws for a permanent mount. (Don't use ALL the holes, just a few more).

This was what the "skate guy" at our rink said to me when I asked him about permanent mounting (really)

Me: Hi. A friend told me you're good with skates. I just got these and need to have the blades permanently mounted, my coach has decided they are in the right place, so I need to know if I can put the rest of the screws in, or if you can do it how much it will cost.

Him: You have man? He has drill, goes vrrrr, vrrr. He use that.

Me: Oh okay.

So basically if you have a drill, or even an electric screwdriver you can put them in. My Jackson skates came with extra screws, but I noticed whomever did the blades I currently skated in used a random assortment of screws, some lay flush to the blade, others are bubbleheaded and stick out a bit. As long as it holds the blade on.

:idea:
Just to add, when drilling your holes for your extra screws be sure to use a drill bit that is slightly thinner than the screws you are going to screw into your boots. You don't want the drill bits to be way too thin which can cause your leather to split or the drill bits to be the same size or wider than your screws which will let your screws fall out after the first jump.
:idea:

[abbi_1990]

Don't forget to check your blades for straight before AND after mounting. It is not uncommon for mounting to put a twist or a bend in the blade. If that happens, you need figure out which screws you have to loosen to remove the twist and to put shims between the blade and boot at that location(s) until the blade tightens without twisting. You need a perfectly straight steel bar for that. (You can pick up a machinist's steel rule for about $10)

waah, that sounds scary :o what are shims?

[Rusty Blades]

waah, that sounds scary :o what are shims?

Oh, sorry! Shims are thin pieces of metal used as spacers. Brass is preferred and can be found at a hobby shop in varying thicknesses and can be cut with an old pair of scissors.

[Skate@Delaware]

Some people that sharpen (note: I said "some") can mount blades...but don't trust them to the kid that also runs the snack bar :evil:

My boots had a very small gap between the tip of the boot and the blade. My fitter said that it was very common and would settle down after skating on it and tightening it down to the blade (again, check your screws every week-you don't want loose screws).

When you screw them down with the screwdriver after driving them in with the power tool, don't do one all the way in then move on to the next...it's pretty much like putting on a tire...do one, then go to the opposite side and snug, then back across & snug...repeat.

and I didn't put sealant between my boots/blades because I put cheap blades on for the summer-I skate on plastic and don't want my $200 blades worn down; rather do that to $40 blades :D

um, I think that's it!!!

bill, thanks for the beautiful pictures!!!! I do remember you posted a while back about this stuff...but got distracted and forgot to look (I'm finishing up my term paper and only took a short break).

[slusher]

My fitter doesn't use shims, he sands the boot so that it is flat and matches the blade. This is more finicky than it seems because the boots are made to my feet perfectly for the angle of my feet, so it's a subtle sanding to keep the alignment of the boot to the flatness of the blade. Maybe that's in the advanced version of blade mounting, part II. I drive three hours to have him do my skates and wouldn't go to anyone else.

[Skate@Delaware]

My fitter doesn't use shims, he sands the boot so that it is flat and matches the blade. This is more finicky than it seems because the boots are made to my feet perfectly for the angle of my feet, so it's a subtle sanding to keep the alignment of the boot to the flatness of the blade. Maybe that's in the advanced version of blade mounting, part II. I drive three hours to have him do my skates and wouldn't go to anyone else.
I would think so! MUCH better than the way my first blades were mounted...lined up with the freakin' TOE SEAM!!!! small wonder my 3-turns were messed up for 2 years!!! Come to find out-my blades were crooked and offset by almost 1/4" because of being mounted that way!!!!

Yeah, get it done the right way the first time. I know better now. Funny how experience is the best teacher!!!

[Query]

If you sand the boot - that will void the warranty on some boots. (I was told that on Klingbeils.)

Just curious - why metal shims? I've seen leather and tape shims.

If that person is the best, it makes sense to drive to the seller, for both mount and sharpening, 3 hours or no. I've had too many problems with boots and blades to fret over a 3 hour drive - don't you drive that much every week skating?

Since you like the Ultima, consider their Matrix interchangeable blade system next time. Then you need only one mount onto the boot, you just swap blade runners (blades without mounting plates) with a 3 mm hex key. It costs a fair bit more up front, but runners are cheaper than blades with mounting plates. If you find an out of town sharpener you like, you can get two pair of runners, and mail the sharpener one pair at a time.

If your first skates didn't fit, contact the manufacturer as soon as possible - they may be willing to do something about it. If not, talk to that bootfitter and see if they are professional enough to do something.

[Skittl1321]

Since you like the Ultima, consider their Matrix interchangeable blade system next time.

That seems a bit overkill, blade mounting isn't that much of a pain to make up the difference in cost/ appropriateness to level. The blade she is mounting right now is the Mark IV. It costs about $40 (and in this case came with the boot). The Matrix system costs $250-350 for the chassis and $100ish for a runner. I don't think many beginners are apt to buy this system. (And I'm assuming beginner since she's in a Jackson Freestyle- sorry to the OP if my assumption is wrong)

[abbi_1990]

your right i am a beginner, been skating for approx 5 months.

i have put the screws into the holes on the front part of the mounting plate, but i cant put any into the heel because the shaft of the electric screwdriver we have is too wide so it would hit the blade of the skate before the screw was fully in :( so we are going to try to buy a new screwdriver tomorrow or tuesday.

The blades did not twist when the other screws were inserted into the front plate ( i checked using the mechanists steel rule that rustyblades suggested).

i have applied snoseal to the soles of the boots but they didnt change colour so im not sure if it worked??

[R D Lite]

i have applied snoseal to the soles of the boots but they didnt change colour so im not sure if it worked??

I also have Jackson Freestyles, and the bottom of the soles are coated with a tan-colored waterproofing material. The Jackson name and the skate size are embossed in it. If yours are like that, you only need to Sno-Seal the exposed leather of the soles (heel, edges just below the uppers, front of heel). Those parts will darken slightly when you Sno-Seal.

[abbi_1990]

I also have Jackson Freestyles, and the bottom of the soles are coated with a tan-colored waterproofing material. The Jackson name and the skate size are embossed in it. If yours are like that, you only need to Sno-Seal the exposed leather of the soles (heel, edges just below the uppers, front of heel). Those parts will darken slightly when you Sno-Seal.

ahh ok, mine are the same as that. I splashed a bit of snoseal on the heel and it did darken it so ill apply the snoseal all over the heel and the other parts you suggested. thanks!

[Skate@Delaware]

My skates (Jackson Elites) look all splotchy from when I applied sno-seal...so before each show/competition I have to hit them with brown polish (ok, overkill I know but I'm soooo particular-I am also the only one at my rink that actually cares...)

Maybe I should swipe them with alcohol or something then sno-seal them??? Any ideas/suggestions for that??? (no wisecracks about boot OCD either...;) )

[Kim to the Max]

My skates (Jackson Elites) look all splotchy from when I applied sno-seal...so before each show/competition I have to hit them with brown polish (ok, overkill I know but I'm soooo particular-I am also the only one at my rink that actually cares...)

Maybe I should swipe them with alcohol or something then sno-seal them??? Any ideas/suggestions for that??? (no wisecracks about boot OCD either...;) )

I am the same way....I have Harlicks, so the soles are pretty evenly colored, but if I even notice that the soles are not repelling water the way they should, I put another layer on them...I'm getting annoyed right now that I keep kicking the heel on my right boot while working on axels (and not successfully crossing my feet)...

[Skate@Delaware]

When i added the sno-seal...it got splotchy. I was like ????? and each time I treat them (4x so far) they are splotchy.

Ok, that is why I also don't wear white canvas sneakers....I don't like grungy shoes either.

[Kim to the Max]

When i added the sno-seal...it got splotchy. I was like ????? and each time I treat them (4x so far) they are splotchy.

Ok, that is why I also don't wear white canvas sneakers....I don't like grungy shoes either.

That's odd...and you put a thin coat on? While using a hair dryer to open up the leather? hmmmm....

[Skate@Delaware]

That's odd...and you put a thin coat on? While using a hair dryer to open up the leather? hmmmm....
Um, well I don't use a hair dryer...I put them in the clothes dryer on a rack...on low heat.

My thinking on this? There was something put on them at the factory-some sort of treatment for the uppers...and it got on the heels. :evil:

Maybe I should just not worry about it sooo much :giveup: I mean, they are really nicked & gouged up now...

[smelltheice]

your right i am a beginner, been skating for approx 5 months.

i have put the screws into the holes on the front part of the mounting plate, but i cant put any into the heel because the shaft of the electric screwdriver we have is too wide so it would hit the blade of the skate before the screw was fully in :( so we are going to try to buy a new screwdriver tomorrow or tuesday.

The blades did not twist when the other screws were inserted into the front plate ( i checked using the mechanists steel rule that rustyblades suggested).

i have applied snoseal to the soles of the boots but they didnt change colour so im not sure if it worked??

I don't mean to sound patronising (sorry if I do!!) but you can get long screwdriver bits and extension bars for electric screwdrivers. all I will say is go easy when the screw is nearly in as you risk ripping the threads that the screw has carved to the boot. I speak from experience here so I have always since then used a manual hand screw driver. You can't go wrong really and it isn't that hard to screw them in manually.