Turning at speed - help!

[airyfairy76]

My main bugbear with my skating at the moment is my inability to either do 3-turns or mohawks to turn backwards, when skating at any type of speed.

They work in isolation, and they are getting a little faster, but if I am travelling (eg forward crossovers, and then a 3-turn or mohawk to go into backward crossovers), I have to slooooooooooow right down . . . as in virtually stop . . . otherwise I bottle it. And if I do attempt it, it's one heartstopping, skiddy mess!!! :roll:

Anyone got any tips about how I can get used to doing them faster?

[Ellyn]

Two suggestions.

1) Work your confidence up gradually. Practice the turn slowly in isolation, then try it with a little bit more speed a few times, and when you're comfortable with that start adding a little more. On a 0-10 scale where 0 is standing still and 10 is your top speed that you can achieve just skating forward, see if you can try doing the turns at a speed of 2, and then a week or two later try dialing the speed up to 3, and then 4 . . .

2) Get a coach or more advanced skater to skate along with you and hold one of your hands while you skate along at a speed you're comfortable with going forward (or backward) but not turning on your own . . . maybe 6 or 7 on the scale above. Try doing the turn while holding the other person's hand for support.

[Mrs Redboots]

Anyone got any tips about how I can get used to doing them faster?
I'm still trying after 13 years! But I can do them with a partner at the correct sort of speed now - and, in fact, enjoy it - but not solo. I can just about do a solo Mohawk at some speed now.

Turning from backwards to forwards is a lot easier, as you are going forwards when you finish! Much better idea!

[airyfairy76]

2) Get a coach or more advanced skater to skate along with you and hold one of your hands while you skate along at a speed you're comfortable with going forward (or backward) but not turning on your own . . . maybe 6 or 7 on the scale above. Try doing the turn while holding the other person's hand for support.

I do occasionally do some with my coaches support and even though I am not really putting any weight on her, I think it helps as she is keeping some tension through my arms. I try and remember this position for checking the turn when doing them on my own, and on the slower ones its not an issue. It's just so scary on the fast ones!!

[Sessy]

Can't help you much on the mohawks but on the 3turns: dig in your first edge.
The deeper the entry edge, the easier it is to turn (downside: the harder to check).
In short, I'm pretty sure you can't turn from an absolute flat (it may look like somebody's turning from a flat at speed but in fact they're on an edge, just a shallow one).

Also be conscious of the fact that after crossovers, your shoulders could be arranged very differently than doing 3-turns from still, which could account for your inability to turn.


As for doing mohawks at speed, now that for me was pure practice practice practice. You could also work on getting a little more hip turn-out, which sure helped the mohawks for me (I have closed hips).


Oh yeah and stop looking at your feet! That's a killer, cuz when you look down, your whole posture changes, including your balance and core strength/stability/whatever. Messes up the mohawks worse than it does the 3-turns, but still: bad for both. Try to look at about the first row of seats in the arena .

[jskater49]

My main bugbear with my skating at the moment is my inability to either do 3-turns or mohawks to turn backwards, when skating at any type of speed.

They work in isolation, and they are getting a little faster, but if I am travelling (eg forward crossovers, and then a 3-turn or mohawk to go into backward crossovers), I have to slooooooooooow right down . . . as in virtually stop . . . otherwise I bottle it. And if I do attempt it, it's one heartstopping, skiddy mess!!! :roll:

Anyone got any tips about how I can get used to doing them faster?

Welcome to my relationship with the mohawk in the Swing Dance. I'm not there yet but coach tells me "don't think oh I have to do a mohawk" but think about what I have to do for the mohawk, stretch the arms, think edge, turn your head..."

I've gotten so I can do 3 turns fast in the Bronze moves, but not in my program for my half flip.

j

[kayskate]

Ellyn gave you some good advice.
Additionally, try putting the turns in a repetitive context. Do power 3s and the 5 step mohawk a lot. They really help. To make it more fun, create your own patterns. Start slowly then build as you gain confidence.

Kay

[Skate@Delaware]

Wow this is really good advice!!! It's just something that will take some extra hard work, and time. I think everyone has had this issue. Don't skip working on this...it's easy to push it to the back shelf because it's hard & scary. Keep slooowly increasing your speed at each session and soon you will be zipping around!

[GordonSk8erBoi]

Can't help you much on the mohawks but on the 3turns: dig in your first edge.
The deeper the entry edge, the easier it is to turn (downside: the harder to check).
In short, I'm pretty sure you can't turn from an absolute flat (it may look like somebody's turning from a flat at speed but in fact they're on an edge, just a shallow one).


I think this is really good advice. I'm still (STILL) working on APB moves and I noticed the only way I can feel confident about the FI3s when I get some speed up is to really dig the edge in.

[airyfairy76]

This has been great - thank you all so far who have responded!! Definitely a few things there to try out.

Ellyn & Skate@Delaware: I will definitely be trying to build up the speed bit by bit - I have started this and will persevere with it.

Sessy: I shall remember that about digging the edge in. I have very open hips so turnout is really no issue at all, but I've noticed that I don't use it as much as I should on my mohawks. And yes, I think I have a habit of looking down slightly!

Kayskate: That's a really good idea to do lots of combinations. If I do that, I should be able to gradually incraese the speed there too.

Thank you!

[onlyhappyonice]

Have you tried slowly increasing the speed so that your are always JUST outside of your comfort zone?

small steps ;)

[doubletoe]

When doing mohawks and/or 3-turns at speed, you need to bend the knees a little deeper and hold each edge a little longer. Another important thing when going into a forward 3-turn or mohawk at speed (turning forward to backward) is to push out to the right for a CCW turn (a right forward inside mohawk or left forward outside 3-turn) and push out to the left for a CW turn (a LFI mohawk or RFO 3-turn). In other words, if you are skating straight down the middle of the rink facing 12:00, you need to push out to 1:00 or 2:00 for the RFI or LFO and push out toward 11:00 or 10:00 for the LFI or RFO. It gives you lot more stability.

[Sessy]

Oh that's some excellent advise doubletoe has there.

[airyfairy76]

Another important thing when going into a forward 3-turn or mohawk at speed (turning forward to backward) is to push out to the right for a CCW turn (a right forward inside mohawk or left forward outside 3-turn) and push out to the left for a CW turn (a LFI mohawk or RFO 3-turn). In other words, if you are skating straight down the middle of the rink facing 12:00, you need to push out to 1:00 or 2:00 for the RFI or LFO and push out toward 11:00 or 10:00 for the LFI or RFO. It gives you lot more stability.

Oh that definitely sounds like good advice. I'll add that to the growing list - thanks Doubletoe!

[phoenix]

Lots of good advice here. I wanted to add--when you do a 3 turn at speed, you have to really use your skating knee & rise STRAIGHT UP to do the turn. If you use your shoulders or any other part of your body you'll skate *around* the turn, and it will then spit you out because of the speed. As you do the actual turn you want your feet tight together too, and everything draws up into one single axis as you rotate. Then your skating knee immediately bends again to check the turn and control the exit.

It's just like other things--you can get away w/ lots of mistakes going slow, but it will kill you going fast if you're not exactly correct.

[Skate@Delaware]

Lots of good advice here. I wanted to add--when you do a 3 turn at speed, you have to really use your skating knee & rise STRAIGHT UP to do the turn. If you use your shoulders or any other part of your body you'll skate *around* the turn, and it will then spit you out because of the speed. As you do the actual turn you want your feet tight together too, and everything draws up into one single axis as you rotate. Then your skating knee immediately bends again to check the turn and control the exit.

It's just like other things--you can get away w/ lots of mistakes going slow, but it will kill you going fast if you're not exactly correct.
GREAT ADVICE phoenix, mistakes at speed will really add to the ***EEEKKK*** factor!!! (um from one who knows firsthand)

[FLskater]

I'm going to try these recommendations, too, as I can't for the life of me turn in any direction at any fast speed. I always slow down first! airyfairy, you are NOT ALONE!

[flippet]

A little thing that might help (in addition to, yet separate from all these helpful technical hints), is, when you're setting up for and going into the turn, to *think* about the position you'll be in coming OUT of the turn--set up that feeling in your mind. It kind of gives your brain the little 'push' that's needed to get past the "aaacckkk--I'm turning!" fear-and-grind-to-a-halt.

So basically, if your issue at the moment is more mental than physical or technical, that can help you get over the hump.

[Mrs Redboots]

A little thing that might help (in addition to, yet separate from all these helpful technical hints), is, when you're setting up for and going into the turn, to *think* about the position you'll be in coming OUT of the turn--set up that feeling in your mind. It kind of gives your brain the little 'push' that's needed to get past the "aaacckkk--I'm turning!" fear-and-grind-to-a-halt.

So basically, if your issue at the moment is more mental than physical or technical, that can help you get over the hump.
But that's exactly the problem, flippet - you have to come out of the turn on a back edge, and going fast, that's scary! I'm fine once I get going, mostly, but I do find that if I have to turn at speed it has to be a Mohawk - and even then I am as like as not to slow down into it!

[Sessy]

I had that issue for a while, when they bumped me from the basic skating class into the competitional B skating group class. The girls were all much faster than I was and yet I was expected to do everything at the same speed they did. What especially bothered me was practicing crossovers where we were expect to go from forward to backward or backward to forward at the snap of the coaches' fingers, basically.
So what I did a lot was jump the turns instead of actually rotating them on ice, 2-footed. After a while, I jumped them 1-footed, and after yet another while I could just turn them without leaving the ice.