The Cowardly Skater!

[taijiya]

That would be me. :bow:

I'm still in ISI basic skills right now, working on Gamma and Delta moves with the occasional FS1 element thrown in. My issue is this: I'm a Klingon. I cling on to my coach, I cling on to the boards--it's as though I need the psychological reassurance of physical contact, even if it isn't really supporting or controlling me. It's often no more than me resting my palm daintily atop my coach's palm; but the second I drop that contact, the move that I was successfully executing just a moment before becomes impossible. It's ridiculous and frustrating, because I know I can do things, I can feel it when it's right and when it's wrong, and most of the time the person (or object, in the boards' case) I'm in contact with is doing nothing at all to assist me! I think I need mental help. :oops:

I want to believe this is just my process, my way of learning. After all, there are things that I can do all by myself with no one touching me that I did need assistance with previously. (The fact that right now I'm only managing about an hour on the ice per week, including instruction time in group lessons, is also a factor in my rate of progression, I'm sure.) It's just very frustrating, and a little disheartening. It's hard not to compare myself to others in my class, none of whom are clingy like me, but I have to remind myself that every one of them is on the ice three or four times a week compared to my measly hour. But still--what the heck am I afraid of?

Bah. When I was a kid, I was regularly hauled off to the emergency room if I so much as fell over and bumped my head. Maybe that's warped me for life! So commiserate with me; any other clingy scaredy-skaters out there, or am I just mental? :mrgreen:

~~taijiya

[onlyhappyonice]

I'm not sure how your US standards factor next to the UK but I'm currently in the middle of lessons and from what my brief google search turned up you're doing things like three turns?

Have you tried executing the moves whilst holding the barrier with one hand?

For example in a three turn against the wall, do a FOE three turn and use the edge to propel yourself and keep your balance then you need to balance yourself ONLY when making the actual turn. Our coach had us starting like that then moved us away from the wall when we seemed to have the mechanics of it. The same can be applied to mohawks and when trying to get your feet over to practice backwards cross over.

If I misunderstood your current level then I apologise for patronising you :)

[SynchroSk8r114]

I'm not sure how your US standards factor next to the UK but I'm currently in the middle of lessons and from what my brief google search turned up you're doing things like three turns?

If I misunderstood your current level then I apologise for patronising you :)

No, you are correct about level requirements.

Gamma skaters work on FO 3-turns, mohawks, and hockey stops.

Delta skaters work on FI 3-turns, FO and FI edges, shoot-the-ducks, forward lunges, and bunnyhops.

[jwrnsktr]

I was a wall flower for a very, very long time. The way I broke away was to first do what move I was doing holding on. Then I'd rest my palm on the barrier. Then I'd let one finger drag on the barrier. Finally I'd move just a little away from the wall and not touch. Then I'd try to move a little further away from the wall. It took me all summer to move a waltz jump off the wall and into the middle of the rink. It can be done - don't expect it overnight, esp if you are only skating once a week. The other thing is that it used to take me half an hour at least to get my "ice legs" under me when I first started. So that means you have just half an hour of confident skating going on in your practice. Try to do the things that you do with confidence as soon as you get to the rink. Make them stronger. When you feel ready, go to the wall but remember your knee bend and to skate into the ice, not on top of it, if that makes sense to you. The more knee bend, the closer you are to the ice if you do fall! Try weaning yourself off the wall, one element at a time. And, give yourself time - one coach told me she expected a 5% improvement each week in the elements she gave me to practice. That took so much pressure off me - instead of expecting me to get something in a week's time, I was only expected to IMPROVE one week to the next. Give yourself that luxury too. Hope this helps!

[onlyhappyonice]

Are you able to get into a session skate once a week or even twice a month?

If you can get to a session skate away from lessons and coaches you can work on your edges, by building up some speed and taking some sharp corners around the rink you get used to using your edges and you build on your use of posture and balance, this itself will come in handy when trying to perform these excercises and may go some way to helping your confidence.

[Rusty Blades]

Well I discovered (much to the chagrin of both my coach and myself) that my jumps are that way - within 5 feet of the boards, no problem! Away from the boards, not even with a gun to my head! Now that's insane because close to the boards is the most dangerous place to jump. Everything else works fine anywhere on the ice.

It took me awhile to realize that I spent the first 2 years learning everything along the boards (staying out of the way of the "better skaters") so the boards became my "reference line" - something I can always see in my peripheral vision (without looking down). When I move away from the boards for jumps, I don't have that line and feel disoriented. It is similar with footwork but not as bad.

I made two resolutions to correct the problem and stop it from happening in the future.

Now I make it a point to use the WHOLE ice and work on my elements in various places. Second is to slooooowly move my jumps away from the boards.

[Isk8NYC]

I love the Klingon play on words!

You'll get the hang of it, just tell yourself you don't need the crutches.

[kayskate]

If you do hold the boards, be careful that you don't *lean* on the boards. This will alter your balance. As one person suggested, just place your palm on the top for assistance, not support. I have a student who would literally lean on the barrier and lift herself though jumps. She would land lopsided, hanging on. I had to get her away from the boards or she would have learned to lean through all of her jumps and never gotten out onto the ice.

Kay

[looplover]

Bah. When I was a kid, I was regularly hauled off to the emergency room if I so much as fell over and bumped my head. Maybe that's warped me for life!
~~taijiya

You know I think you're on to something there - that experience probably is affecting your skating, so kudos to you for getting out there and doing it anyway, and trying to get past it! :mrgreen:

I think like the others said, if you can get out there on sessions without your coach you'll eventually feel more confident. Make sure to bend your knees a lot so you feel more secure. I know what you mean because though I'm not a Klingon (thats so funny) I have elements that psychologically freak me out, and it's a struggle to do them in certain situations. I just cannot attempt a flip during a public session if anyone is on that side of the ice, it freaks me out for some reason :roll:

[deannathegeek]

My daughter & I have the same problem learning new things-we have to cling on to something for stability for months before we even think about trying it solo. For us, we have each other for moral support. Maybe if you get a skating buddy it won't sem so bad. Have someone to help you, to laugh at you, and to get you to laugh at yourself really helps.

[Skate@Delaware]

Tai,
You might want to move under your own "impulse power" gradually....because being a klingon is dangerous in this world!!! If you can graduate to only holding on to a glove or a piece of fabric (visions of ancient ethnic dances flash in my mind) that is a start....plus, before each skating session, practice falling down and getting back up. 2-3 times. And doing lots of dips.

I had a young girl in one of my classes who did the same thing-scared to death wanted to latch on to me and did not want to fall.....so I had her hold on to a glove that did not have my fingers in all the way. I would toss my other glove out ahead of us...her job was to dip down and retrieve it.

I think you will get better once you get a good fall out of your way (I know that sounds mean but I was in your boots once and it "cured" me).

[doubletoe]

Tai,
You might want to move under your own "impulse power" gradually....because being a klingon is dangerous in this world!!! If you can graduate to only holding on to a glove or a piece of fabric (visions of ancient ethnic dances flash in my mind) that is a start....plus, before each skating session, practice falling down and getting back up. 2-3 times. And doing lots of dips.

I had a young girl in one of my classes who did the same thing-scared to death wanted to latch on to me and did not want to fall.....so I had her hold on to a glove that did not have my fingers in all the way. I would toss my other glove out ahead of us...her job was to dip down and retrieve it.

I think you will get better once you get a good fall out of your way (I know that sounds mean but I was in your boots once and it "cured" me).

That is brilliant advice!

[jskater49]

I'm the biggest chicken in the world but I never could do anything by the boards. It just seems like the position is not at all what I want to be away from the boards.

And forget about letting my coach touch me, much less hang on to her. I like that she's pregnant now and can't get out on the ice and grab me.

j

[Bunny Hop]

Klingon! :lol: I love it!

I so sympathise with you, and I know exactly what you mean.

I can now do a very small but passable three (waltz) jump if I'm within a couple of feet of the boards. If I move it to the middle of the rink and my husband is standing beside me with his arms out, I can manage some sort of three-hop thing so long as I can start and end by holding his arms or hands. But if he puts his arms down and tells me to do the jump I can't manage anything more than a step from one foot to the other. SOOOOO frustrating!

It's not just jumps either - I'm nearly as bad with mohawks, though I managed a couple of those without touching the 'human barrier' last week.

Funnily enough, my dance coach doesn't accept 'but the wall is my friend' as an excuse when my back edges stray towards the side as if drawn by a magnet!

[techskater]

Sounds to me like you need Dumbo's black crow feather to hold onto when working away from the boards/coach. Get an extra glove and hold onto it. It works for me when I am working on something new and I've already moved away from my coach (it makes me think of the position she put me in the first time we worked on it). I've used it for counters, rockers, etc in the last year on the Novice MIF AND I trick myself into thinking she's still there so my free foot stays close on the rocker-choctaws!

[taijiya]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and moral support. It helps just to know that others have had this same issue, and overcome it. You've given me some good ideas on how to start weaning myself off my dependency. :lol: It's ridiculous to think that I can do lovely mohawks--and even inside 3 turns!--as long as I have one hand touching the boards, but can't do them if I step just out of arm's reach. Maybe I need a meaner coach... :mrgreen:

~~taijiya

[onlyhappyonice]

It's ridiculous to think that I can do lovely mohawks--and even inside 3 turns!--as long as I have one hand touching the boards

How old are you, our coach said last week how adults find the outside edge three turn to be easier than inside edge and the kids are the other way around. So although some may say outside edge is harder to learn it really depends on your age as I know both me and my partner and the rest of the group do find outside edge easier.

This also seems to be the case with backwards crossover, counter clockwise is weaker for me than clockwise.

[taijiya]

How old are you, our coach said last week how adults find the outside edge three turn to be easier than inside edge and the kids are the other way around.

Heh--I just turned 41. I wouldn't exactly call the inside threes "easy," but I didn't have a particularly hard time with them. (Just started them last lesson.) Left foot is much better than right on both inside and outside threes, but I expect that!

~~taijiya (only likes to skate CCW)

[Rusty Blades]

I just turned 41

Then the theory is correct! I am 58 and find outside 3-turns easier LOL! :lol:

[onlyhappyonice]

I have to say how great I think it is that older people get out and onto the ice, I know 20 year olds that won't go near a rink.

A quote from my brothers partner
"I'm not strapping sharp knives to the bottom of my shoes and standing on a slippery surface"

Then on the rink on tuesday nights there are a few older people :bow:

[looplover]

How old are you, our coach said last week how adults find the outside edge three turn to be easier than inside edge and the kids are the other way around.

That's interesting!

I'm 40 and I just like turns to the left, regardless of edge - LFO and RFI, RBO and LFI (even though I fractured my shoulder on the LFI once).

I'd prefer it if I only had to turn left. :twisted:

[FlyAndCrash]

I think most people fee more comfortable turning the direction that they spin or jump. I know that I do. :lol:

[Helen88]

How old are you, our coach said last week how adults find the outside edge three turn to be easier than inside edge and the kids are the other way around. So although some may say outside edge is harder to learn it really depends on your age as I know both me and my partner and the rest of the group do find outside edge easier.

This also seems to be the case with backwards crossover, counter clockwise is weaker for me than clockwise.

Bang goes that theory - I'm 13 and I find insides virtually impossible (although I seem to have cracked them lately). Or do I not count as a kid in the skating world? :lol:

[Rusty Blades]

I have to say how great I think it is that older people get out and onto the ice

Ok, just whointhehell are you calling "older people" ????? 8O


:mrgreen:

[Mrs Redboots]

I have to say how great I think it is that older people get out and onto the ice, I know 20 year olds that won't go near a rink.

A quote from my brothers partner
"I'm not strapping sharp knives to the bottom of my shoes and standing on a slippery surface"

Then on the rink on tuesday nights there are a few older people :bow:
You should be at our rink at 7:00 am on a Wednesday or 9:30 am on a Friday - nobody then on the ice (with the exception of one of the coaches) was born earlier than 1959, and a good many people several decades earlier than that! Young people are very much in the minority at some sessions!

Plus we have learn-to-skate classes for adults two nights a week, and on both Saturdays and Sundays - kids only get weekends, and the occasional course in the school holidays!

[onlyhappyonice]

Ok, just whointhehell are you calling "older people" ????? 8O


:mrgreen:


YOU! hahaha

I'm starting to get called old now by 18/19 year olds :(

[Skate@Delaware]

hahaha!!! just for fun I tell the little kids I am an "old lady" ... one day a girl said to me " you aren't THAT old my dad is older than you, he is 38!!!" I did NOT tell her I was 46!!!!

I said "wow, I guess he is!!!"

:D

[onlyhappyonice]

oh you women and your ages :lol:

one day I will find out my parter is actually 40, she looks 19, and SUPPOSEDLY is 27

[taijiya]

oh you women and your ages

Fortunately I don't look (or ACT) anywhere near my age, so I get away with a lot more than I should! :lol:

~~taijiya

[Rusty Blades]

Fortunately I don't look (or ACT) anywhere near my age...

Ok, now THAT's a whole nuther story :mrgreen:

[jskater49]

Then the theory is correct! I am 58 and find outside 3-turns easier LOL! :lol:

Count this 50 year who can do lovely outside 3 turns and just barely do an inside 3.

j

[Skate@Delaware]

Count this 50 year who can do lovely outside 3 turns and just barely do an inside 3.

j
ME! ME! ME!!! this is the FIRST year in which I can really do recognizable and lovely 3-turns inside AND outside....and especially holding that BACK EDGE yay! (ok, so it's mostly on one side-sheesh!) thanks to my forced moves work (lemonade out of lemons).

i don't act my age either-I figure I'm old enough to get away with embarrassing my kids now!

[Sessy]

Actually, klinging on to boards and coaches sometimes has a very real, physical cause.
I never was much of a chicken but learning the back inside edges, I could do them fine (well, fine for somebody skating 3 months) holding my coaches' hands or even fingers for a long time, but not at all without. The reason for this was that as soon as I released her fingers/arms, I dropped the tension in my shoulders and arms, making what she referred to as "boiled spaghetti arms". Doing this makes it very hard to do turns and edges, and since all figure skating, including jumps and spins, is based on turns and edges, you're going to have a very hard time skating with shoulders and arms gone all weak.

[Skate@Delaware]

My coach has a solution for her kids that want to hang on...they have to take their gloves off and grip them in their hands! She does NOT permit hanger-oners...for good reason. It's dangerous! I am MUCH larger than her and a pileup would probably break something-her more than me.

Plus, it gives them something to focus on besides falling-they have to hold these gloves UP!

My husband used to get the death-grip on my hand when we danced together...until we spilled and he almost fell on top of me! :evil: So, I refused to hold him correctly after that, we did the glove trick. Once he lost his footing and I bailed!!!! He got really mad but, hey, like i was all of 135 lbs and he was 275!!! No way was I gonna be able to "save him" from smacking the ice like he thought!

So I did the safe & right thing-I bailed!

[Rusty Blades]

It appears I will have no choice but to face my "wall issues" next week, right before Nationals, when I skate at a rink with NO BOARDS! This ought to be FUN! 8O

[Skate@Delaware]

It appears I will have no choice but to face my "wall issues" next week, right before Nationals, when I skate at a rink with NO BOARDS! This ought to be FUN! 8O
You will do fine!!! It's like being on the highway with no other cars!!!!

[dbny]

hahaha!!! just for fun I tell the little kids I am an "old lady" ... one day a girl said to me " you aren't THAT old my dad is older than you, he is 38!!!" I did NOT tell her I was 46!!!!

I said "wow, I guess he is!!!"

:D

Last night an 8 yr old student did not want to do a side toe hop because she had fallen on it with her previous coach (who was 18). I did it (for the first time ever), and told her if an old lady like me could do it, so could she! Then I held her hands while she did the first 2 of many.

I can be a big chicken too. It took me years to be able to do FI threes with any kind of confidence. My former coach was trying to wean me of hand holding with an empty glove - guess that's a common ploy. It didn't work.

[Skate@Delaware]

Last night an 8 yr old student did not want to do a side toe hop because she had fallen on it with her previous coach (who was 18). I did it (for the first time ever), and told her if an old lady like me could do it, so could she! Then I held her hands while she did the first 2 of many.

I can be a big chicken too. It took me years to be able to do FI threes with any kind of confidence. My former coach was trying to wean me of hand holding with an empty glove - guess that's a common ploy. It didn't work.
Aw, well keep hanging in there (not literally!!!!) you will eventually get to the point where you don't need to hang on! And if you don't, then there is always synchro!!! (that's the joke at my rink :D )

Yeah, I use the "if an old lady like me can do it..." ploy as well. :twisted:

[dbny]

Aw, well keep hanging in there (not literally!!!!) you will eventually get to the point where you don't need to hang on! And if you don't, then there is always synchro!!! (that's the joke at my rink :D )


Oh, I'm there already, just not with that coach!

[Sessy]

YOU! hahaha

I'm starting to get called old now by 18/19 year olds :(

I'm 22 and getting told to "grow up!" :mrgreen:
Go for the pig tails on both sides of the head. Nobody will guess you're a day over 16 :mrgreen:

[GordonSk8erBoi]

I've never had a coach hold my hand except VERY occasionally. I don't think it's a good idea to build that kind of dependence.

[onlyhappyonice]

I'm 22 and getting told to "grow up!" :mrgreen:
Go for the pig tails on both sides of the head. Nobody will guess you're a day over 16 :mrgreen:

I'm a stocky bloke with a shaved head, I don't see that plan going anywhere I'm afraid :lol:

[Sessy]

I'm a stocky bloke with a shaved head, I don't see that plan going anywhere I'm afraid :lol:

Rotflol okay I can see how that might not work equally well for you as it does for me. Maybe if you let it grow? :twisted:

[Sk8Dreamer]

Actually, klinging on to boards and coaches sometimes has a very real, physical cause.
I never was much of a chicken but learning the back inside edges, I could do them fine (well, fine for somebody skating 3 months) holding my coaches' hands or even fingers for a long time, but not at all without. The reason for this was that as soon as I released her fingers/arms, I dropped the tension in my shoulders and arms, making what she referred to as "boiled spaghetti arms". Doing this makes it very hard to do turns and edges, and since all figure skating, including jumps and spins, is based on turns and edges, you're going to have a very hard time skating with shoulders and arms gone all weak.

Interesting about the arms and shoulders. My problem is just the opposite: my arms and shoulders are Frankenstein-stiff, which I think causes all sorts of problems, not the least of which is the issue of keeping my cener of gravity from being as low as it should be. (Thus my earlier post about relaxing while skating--and again I thank everyone for their suggestions.) There must be a happy medium, where one's arms and shoulders are perfectly poised, neither too loose (boiled spaghetti) nor too tense (what I call "Frankenstein").

Why is skating so hard? And why is it so addictive? :giveup:

[onlyhappyonice]

Rotflol okay I can see how that might not work equally well for you as it does for me. Maybe if you let it grow? :twisted:

If I let it grow I'll just be tempted to dye it lurid colours again and bang goes the young persona again :lol:

I have an answer for everything ;)

I don't care, 27 is young in my books so sod 'em

[Sessy]

Sk8dreamer, I had that problem on my edges too until our main group coach took a hike and we got a different one (who then had to re-teach the whole group a number of things).
What really helped was to learn to push off properly at the beginning of the edge. The push is coming entirely from the free leg which feels *almost* like doing a power pull), which then snaps into position right after the push. All you're doing with the standing leg is keeping the edge. Trying to push off in any way with the standing leg at this point causes problems like toepicks, stiff neck and shoulders, edge fighting you etc. Also what really helped was like... the new coach has us keep the arms bit bent at the elbows, but tension there nonetheless, and then keep them in front of you until the moment you push off, only then do the arms (and shoulders) go into the correct position (to sort of your side, rotating the upper body, you know what I mean) not before the push-off happens. The best I can describe this motion is like trying to punch somebody in the stomach with your elbow while holding a stick with your hands by both ends.

Solved my stiff shoulders in, oh about a minute. Can't demonstrate it though (public ice is over for this season here and club ice is till april but my concussion will probably keep me off ice till then, so I think the season's over for me).

[Sessy]

If I let it grow I'll just be tempted to dye it lurid colours again and bang goes the young persona again :lol:


Ohhh I had mine dyed "Cosmic blue" a while ago. When it washed out, it left my hair looking a perfect grey color. :evil:

[Rob Dean]

Maintaining posture with respect to the wall-holding is likely to be an issue. My ocaches have never encouraged extended wall work, and I get only limited hand-holding--usually only when talking through some new move. At that point my brain has more that it can manage and balance always seems to be the agenda item deleted to free up processing space. :)

As for age (or acting it), at 47 I feel younger after four years of skating than I did when I started. :) (Of course, a lot of that is due to the very real positive effects of all the exercise...I went in for my annual physical this week and was told the improvement in most of my numbers from a few years ago was amazing.)

Rob

[Sk8Dreamer]

Sk8dreamer, I had that problem on my edges too until our main group coach took a hike and we got a different one (who then had to re-teach the whole group a number of things).
What really helped was to learn to push off properly at the beginning of the edge. The push is coming entirely from the free leg which feels *almost* like doing a power pull), which then snaps into position right after the push. All you're doing with the standing leg is keeping the edge. Trying to push off in any way with the standing leg at this point causes problems like toepicks, stiff neck and shoulders, edge fighting you etc. Also what really helped was like... the new coach has us keep the arms bit bent at the elbows, but tension there nonetheless, and then keep them in front of you until the moment you push off, only then do the arms (and shoulders) go into the correct position (to sort of your side, rotating the upper body, you know what I mean) not before the push-off happens. The best I can describe this motion is like trying to punch somebody in the stomach with your elbow while holding a stick with your hands by both ends.

Solved my stiff shoulders in, oh about a minute. Can't demonstrate it though (public ice is over for this season here and club ice is till april but my concussion will probably keep me off ice till then, so I think the season's over for me).

Thanks, Sessy. My coach has actually been stressing the push-off, and I have so much trouble with it that I think I need to just practice pushing off from a standstill over and over until I figure out how to get some power in it. Needless to say, the first edge is the worse--subsequent ones, where I have some momentum built, are much, much better. I'm having trouble picturing what you're describing with the arms, though. I'll try to keep your description in mind when I skate today, and see if I can experiment a bit.

[Sessy]

Attempt to illustrate, A being what the previous coach taught me and B being what the new coach taught, fat arrow being direction in which you push off, dotted arrow planned edge to travel.
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9223/naamloosci1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
It's like at the time of the push-off you THEN twist the upper body with the elbows-arms-wrists forming a sort of rigid construction before you, which it's then as if you're trying to smack your right elbow into the stomach of somebody standing behind you to the right of your right shoulder (for the right inside back edge)

[Skate@Delaware]

hmmm....nice pic!!! The thing that helped me with back outides was-HULA!!! Really! When you think-do the hula the motion is very similar! You want to get that hip over the edge, so you swing the hip out when you flick the blade of the other foot off of the ice.

man, wish i could put it on video to show you....i'm still not allowed to skate :(

[sk8tegirl06]

Thank you for the tip about holding a glove in a fist (Skate @ Delaware, I think?). I tried that this morning and it really worked! The last few weeks I have been struggling with loops. I could only do them next to the wall. I tried moving away in small increments, but I would only end up with half of a loop. The glove idea seemed to do the trick. It is a tiny jump still, but it is away from the wall finally :lol: The idea of tension in the arms (Sessy perhaps?) seemed to help as well. Any tips for flip/lutz? I have the set up down, but the jumping part is not happening against the wall or not. In my head, picking in and landing on the same foot still throws me off a bit.