Choctaw

[miraclegro]

Okay, i have two (awful) choctaw's in my program and they look more like weird mohawks. I've only had about 2 lessons with mild explanation of them, and i know it is an inside to an outside edge, but there is a LOT of technical that my feet and upper body aren't getting. Any help will be appreciated!

(or any video explanation? - It is not in my Sports Illustrated skating book.)

[icedancer2]

ooh - sorry I don't have a video of me doing that - it is one of my best move (some would say it is my best move).

If you could see a video of icedancers doing "The Blues" it would give you lots to look at as that choctaw basically defines the dance.

Good luck - I love that choctaw. I will think about how to explain it. There is definitely a weight shift that happens as you complete the turn.

[phoenix]

which way are you doing the choctaw?

Forward inside & back outside, free foot steps down behind skating foot

Forward inside & back outside, free foot steps down in front of skating foot

back outside to fwd inside free foot set down behind

...etc.

That will help us give you more specific advice.

But in general, huge plie' before during & after to help the major turnout needed. Look in the direction of travel throughout to help w/ the check after the step. Major shoulder check after the step. The more edge in & out, the easier the actual turn (don't try it in a fairly straight line--make it big swoopy edges).

[miraclegro]

Well, i'll give you the stuff before and after also.

bunny hop, waltz jump, step down on RO edge, then push into FWI to RBO choctaw, and repeat another choctaw, and then R to L mohawk, then L to R mohawk, and inside twizzle into other stuff.

hope that helps.

[miraclegro]

Phoenix, i just re-read something of yours. I think the little suggestion of big swoopy edges might help. Will try that tomorrow. I feel LD on this move! I am also closed hipped....

[dbny]

which way are you doing the choctaw?
Forward inside & back outside, free foot steps down in front of skating foot


Aren't those the quick Choctaws? Don't see how else you could do them?


This is probably not the place, but a little knowledge of skating terminology and notation would simplify descriptions and explanations.

First, only the entry edge is needed to describe any turn, because the exit edge is part of the definition of the turn:

Mohawks - one edge to the same edge
Choctaws - one edge to the other edge
3's - one edge to other edge
brackets - one edge to other edge
rockers - one edge to same edge
counters - one edge to same edge

Notation:
F = Forward
B = Backward (or Back)
L = Left
R = Right
3 = Three turn

Examples:
LFI3 = Left Forward Inside three turn
RBO3 = Right Back Outside three turn

[icedancer2]

Well, i'll give you the stuff before and after also.

bunny hop, waltz jump, step down on RO edge, then push into FWI to RBO choctaw, and repeat another choctaw, and then R to L mohawk, then L to R mohawk, and inside twizzle into other stuff.

hope that helps.

What is a FWI to RBO?

What phoenix said about how to do the choctaws - big turnout, sweeping edges - all of that.

[dbny]

Well, i'll give you the stuff before and after also.

bunny hop, waltz jump, step down on RO edge, then push into FWI to RBO choctaw, and repeat another choctaw, and then R to L mohawk, then L to R mohawk, and inside twizzle into other stuff.

hope that helps.

What is a FWI to RBO?


Like I said, knowing the terminology and notation helps:

"FWI to RBO choctaw" = FI choctaw

[vesperholly]

Like I said, knowing the terminology and notation helps:

"FWI to RBO choctaw" = FI choctaw

I think icedancer2 wanted the first edge foot - LFI to RBO choctaw. "FWI" doesn't mean anything to me.

miraclegro, does your notation for "step down on RO edge" mean the landing of the waltz jump, or are you a CW skater? Does your coach want you to do a choctaw with the foot stepping in front or behind?

LFI closed choctaw (foot steps in back):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQTcnTxoWEI (:37)

Alternating RBO/LBO open choctaws (foot steps in front):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLfVv0Iz3jM (7:17)

[dbny]

I think icedancer2 wanted the first edge foot - LFI to RBO choctaw. "FWI" doesn't mean anything to me.


Right, I somehow missed the entry foot :roll:, which has to be L since the B edge is R. I think "FWI" is just a personal abbreviation for FI.

[miraclegro]

I know the terminology; i have a nasty head cold and probably put my fingers on the wrong keys. The one that didn't make sense is supposed to be a LFI to RBO. Sorry about that.

[lovepairs]

Hi Miraclegro,

Here are some general tips for the Salchow, assuming that you are taking off from a back inside edge:

As you are making the inside edge (1/2 circle) keep your right hip lower (dropping inside the circle) then your skating hip, which is your left hip

As you're doing the above keep both legs side-by-side (on the same plain, so-to-speak), but because your right hip is lower try to almost touch the inside of your right boot on the ice (so, the right/free foot blade isn't on the ice.)

Next, only jump "out the back door." This means, 180 degrees from where you started. In other words, in preparation for this jump, let's say, you do a mohawk and are just setting up this jump by getting on your left inside edge (so you're going backwards.) Now don't actually "jump" until you are facing 180 degrees in the opposite direction, which means you are now (facing forward.)

When the jump happens:

A) don't lose your left shoulder behind you...meaning don't let the upper body jump first. No twisting your torso...Shoulders and hips stay in the same plaine and jump together, one doesn't go before the other.

b) Keep your left leg (skating leg) at the very best in front of your while in the air. At the very least, keep it at your side, but don't let it swing behind you, which will over rotate this jump

C) Never, never, never under any circumstances break forward at the waist, which means don't look down at the ice...just look out. This jump depends upon good upper body posture, which will keep you nicely over your skating leg.

Hope this helps!

[miraclegro]

And yes, "step down on RO edge" DOES mean the landing of the waltz jump.

[miraclegro]

I'm not doing a Salchow....

[pairman2]

Technically, a choctow is a step that includes these three features:
a. change of skate
b. change of edge
c. change of direction [alternating steps are forward,backwards,forward....]

Some good tips have been given as to how to do it but for me, the best instruction is to watch higher level dancers do them over and over again. Dancers tend to utilize clearer edges and nicer extensions. Free skaters tend to muddle and rush them. [I speak as a non dancer trying to learn the better version]

[lovepairs]

Oh, okay...that's right...I'm doing a Salchow! Anyway, please feel free to use the Salchow tips if you need them:

Chactows:

Some of the same stuff applies:

a) Whatever you do, don't look down at the ice and break forward at the waist.

b) The upper body (waist up) is still, and just goes along for the ride.

c) If you are doing them going forward, then when you step onto your left inside edge, just like in the Salchow, drop the righ hip a bit as you point your right foot into the center. What will give you that really nice/curvey "dancers" chactows, as oppossed to crappy "pair skaters" chactows is by really keeping your hips open ( an open hip applies to the inside egde, and then when you switch to the outside edge.) When you change edges to the back right outside, if you keep your hips really open, you'll get that nice "dancers'" curve!

d) When you are changing edges through your Chactows, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER come up to a straight knee on your skating leg. This will force you to break at the waist, and give you these tiny crappy Chactows. In other words, on both legs, throughout the whole thing, never ever come up off a bent soft knee.

e) Going forward on your left inside edge, stay closer to your skating heal, when you switch to the right back outside edge, stay closer to the ball of your foot.

Hope this helps. Sorry about before...I just have Salchows on the brain right now, because I'm working on mine.

[miraclegro]

Well, thanks for all the tips, i got a differnent person helping me today, and i did them GREAT when she was holding my hands, but the minute she let go, i started breaking at the waist....but i think now i am getting the gist of it better, but now my back hurts.....aargh....

[deannathegeek]

I take footwork classes on Wednesdays & Saturdays, and we'll be working on chocktaws next Wednesday-I'll videotape the coach doing them & post them on YouTube for you, if you like.