student goes over her toepicks a LOT! Any suggestions?

[phoenix]

I have a young teenage studen who I've been teaching for a little less than a year. She's quite tall for her age, and not very strong.

But she works hard & has done very well, and in the last few months passed all 3 preliminary dances. She's almost ready to take her pre-pre moves.

But there's one thing that keeps happening--she catches her toepicks a lot, and it results in a *very* hard fall. Last night she did it after changing her feet in the spiral move, and did a total belly flop! It's so painful to see. And here's the thing: I never see it coming!! It isn't that her shoulders are tipping forward, or that her head is down--in fact, she has naturally very good posture. I almost never have to correct her shoulder/back/head position.

She's in fairly low-level blades, so it's not a big ol' toepick reaching out & grabbing the ice either.

Has any one ever seen this happen & can you give me ideas of what to look for/help with? Clearly she does tip forward, but she must do it very suddenly & instantly go down, because it really does come as a surprise to me almost every time.

Help my poor bruised girl!

[Isk8NYC]

Maybe her skates are the wrong size (too long) or the blade's mounted incorrectly. Does she have balance issues, or does she stumble off-ice?

She is starting the spirals with a bent knee, right? Otherwise, that's a great way to trip and fall.

[Kim to the Max]

Could they have been sharpened wrong? What I mean is, when I mistakenly took my skates somewhere to be sharpened, the person doing them left a big dip behind the toepick which caused me to be very scratchy...they are just now getting to a point where I'm not hitting my toepick every time I do something...

[dbny]

I've seen a few skaters with "floppy" feet, meaning they just don't have very good control of the muscles that flex the foot, or those muscles are not very strong. Maybe it's a combination of all of the above in very small degrees, making it hard to figure out exactly what the problem is. Until it's fixed, you could suggest knee pads for her. Renatale recommended making one's own out of Akton gel pads (http://www.sammonspreston.com/Supply/Product.asp?Leaf_Id=A731501#), which are reasonably priced and only a bit thicker than SkatingSafe.

[deannathegeek]

I used to have this issue a lot. Turned out I was leaning forward a lot, most of the time to look at my feet to make sure i was doing things right. I naturally walk with the top-half of my body leading the way (leaning forward slightly), and I skate the same way. Have her stroke around the rink a lap or two to see if she leans forward at all.

[kayskate]

Sounds like her core is not very strong and she breaks at the waist. Does she tend to toe push when she is not concentrating? Does she tend to point her toe down at the ice rather than out?

Kay

[Tennisany1]

Could they have been sharpened wrong? What I mean is, when I mistakenly took my skates somewhere to be sharpened, the person doing them left a big dip behind the toepick which caused me to be very scratchy...they are just now getting to a point where I'm not hitting my toepick every time I do something...

ITA with this suggestion. It is easy to check. My dd had a bad sharpening once and she kept belling flopping. I would eliminate any blade and boot problems first. If there are no problems there, I would suggest it is probably a lack of core strength. Does she do any ballet or off ice training?

[CanAmSk8ter]

Maybe her skates are the wrong size (too long) or the blade's mounted incorrectly. Does she have balance issues, or does she stumble off-ice?

That was the first thing that popped into my head too. Are you familiar with the person who fitted her for skates? I've seen kids (including some who have been to a shop I used to think was good) who were put in a too-long skate when what they actually needed was the next width.

[smelltheice]

One thing that did catch my attention that you hit on is that she is tall for her age. This can be a problem from the point of view of the biomechanics of the body. It is a fact that taller people have a harder time in many sports that require them to move quickly or sharply. The proof of this can be seen between a parent and their kids when you see the kids running rings around them and out manouvre the parents. Her balance is set higher up her body so when she tips forward a little, her body amplifies the effect more than it would if she was shorter ans so so what seems to be only a small tip forward is enough to catch the toe. I do have a question though. Has she got small feet in comparison with the rest of her development? This can also be a problem that only her growing out of it will solve. A narrow base for a tall person will result in them being less stable than some one with a broader base.

Please understand that I can only speculate having never seen her and never met you so none of this is intended to be patronising. I am just throwing a few ideas that might help you and her. I hope this helps and good luck in resolving this

[miraclegro]

Don't know if this will help,as perhaps you have told her this already:

Tell her to press the heel down more (or look to see if that is what is happening) or to get on the entire blade more.

Just another suggestion....

I got my worst (and only) head injury from doing a spiral (at least i think it was! I have no actual recall- i was out for over an hour!) But i know that was what i had been working on, so i am more watchful when teaching of that than most, probably - don't want anyone else to have to have a CT-scan!

[Query]

Proabably these things have already occurred to you:

I have some of the same problem, especially since switching from dance blades to freestyle. I want a pick-less skate that pushes out a pin only when I push a button. Maybe flexibility training to help bring the toe end of the foot up and the heel down would help me. Have no idea if it would help your student.

Some skaters push more directly back than sideways, like they were walking or running. If the foot and leg go back far enough, it is hard not to use the toe. I have some of this problem too.

My coach tells me these kinds of things a lot, as I imagine you do. It helps to be reminded. Keep it up.

Most people say higher heeled boots help you press down on your heels easier. A good bootftter can put shims in to get the same effect.

I am convinced I have the opposite problem - evil high heels push my flexibility to the point that I overbalance and come forwards onto my toe.

>Help my poor bruised girl!

Falling practice. Make it fun. "How far can you glide?" Focus on forwards or sideways falls, like brushing the arm(s) forwards into a glide, and have her wear clothing that covers arms and hands. Repeated practice improves reaction time.

Padding. Make her look like a hockey player! The look that all figure skaters aspire to.

[Skate@Delaware]

After her skates are looked at (and perhaps fixed if they need to be) she can work on core strength with maybe some pilates or yoga.

All I can offer is what my coach has me do with spirals:
-Lift through the torso all the way through to the top of the head
-lock the skating leg
-lower the torso while extending the free leg, then push the skating leg forward AND pulling the hips back...arch the lower back at the same time. The weight should be through the arch of the foot.

Arm position for beginners is square and level-she should be able to see her hands out of the corners of her eyes. Once stability is gained then she can play around with her arm position.

She should practice this a lot off the ice. This will help her gain strength and endurance.

I hope she gets better at spirals! No one likes to toe-pick on these!!!

[Skittl1321]

Is it possible to have her practice back spirals more to get used to the body position and the strength of the leg- then when she is steady on those move her to the forward spiral, where she will then have to deal with the toe pick?

This really helped me, because I learned where everything needed to be going backwards, there were no falls. Then when I moved to forward spirals I was able to really think about keeping my weight on the heel because my body and arms were used to being in the right place.

Of course, it's difficult to practice back spirals on even moderatly crowded sessions.

I broke a rib on a toe pick catch (while trying to grab my blade for a catch foot spiral)- so I know it is NOT fun.