FO Scratch Spin on PrePrelim FS Test

[dbny]

Has anyone ever seen a PrePreliminary FS test where the skater did a FO scratch spin? I don't know why this wouldn't pass, but I think it must be almost unprecedented to see that spin at this level. I'm asking because a young skater I know is doing this. Said skater cannot get the 3-turn into the BI edge for the usual scratch spin, but has a beautiful, centered (tight tracing), well controlled FO scratch. Is there any reason to think this might not pass?

[fsk8r]

There's a kid who does that at my rink and she swears that the BI version is harder! I know she managed to pass her level 1, but I didn't pay attention to her spin at the test session. I think she might have got lucky that day and done the BI version.

I think our test rules just say forward upright spin and don't specify any more than that. But I bet it's unwritten somewhere that it has to be on a back edge.

[SynchroSk8r114]

I have yet to have any of my skaters test at this level, so I'd be curious to see what other say as well.

IMO, I don't see why this wouldn't pass. I believe the test requires a one-foot upright spin (i.e., scratch spin) with a min. of 3 revolutions, correct me if I'm wrong.

As a coach, however, I'd be concerned if my skater couldn't get the hook (3-turn) into the spin to achieve the BI edge. This can easily be fixed by having the skater stay down in the skating knee more on the entrance edge into the spin. I think that if the skater continues to do this FO scratch, bad habits can arise down the road. Yes, it's nice to acknowledge the fact that a young skater can achieve this level of spinning at such a low level and age, but it's perhaps more important that she develops the basics of spinning correctly (or rather, traditionally) and then work on fostering FO spins.

But like I said, I'd be curious to see what others have to say, particularly those who have tested their students at this level...

[dbny]

As a coach, however, I'd be concerned if my skater couldn't get the hook (3-turn) into the spin to achieve the BI edge. This can easily be fixed by having the skater stay down in the skating knee more on the entrance edge into the spin. I think that if the skater continues to do this FO scratch, bad habits can arise down the road.


ITA. This is not one of my students, and I haven't seen her coach (a friend of mine) really work with her on fixing it. She is testing soon, so I might be able to bring it up with her coach after the test. I don't think it's going to be easy for her to fix at this point.

[Sessy]

Unrelated question so please feel free to split if you feel it's necessary (I'm not posting this separately cuz I suspect the answer is simple yes or no), but is not getting a hook also the reason why some people do a ccw right inside edge spin instead of a backspin?

[deannathegeek]

In the USFS Freestyle 1 class I attend here in Austin, all CCW spinners are taught to start their scratch spin first by doing CW back crossovers, hold on a RBI edge, transferring to a LFO edge, and entering the spin on a LFO 3-turn. I would presume this is how PrePre would test their skaters, unless I'm totally clueless, which has been known to occur more often than not :o

[Isk8NYC]

I thought DBNY was talking about the edge WITHIN the spin, not the entrance edges. The actual spin is usually done on BI rocker; here, the girl is doing the more difficult variation of the FO edge. (That's what the commentators will point out during televised performances.)

DBNY - I think it will probably pass because of the "Encouragement" of the test level. They're looking for center, strength, and position more than correctness of edge. The judges may ask for a reskate if they're fussy, but I doubt they'll be checking edges - more likely they just want to see the skater off the toepick. I wouldn't expect a retest unless the judges saw other weaknesses.

The skater doesn't have to perform a scratch spin; a simple pique spin will fulfill the requirements.

[SynchroSk8r114]

I thought DBNY was talking about the edge WITHIN the spin, not the entrance edges. The actual spin is usually done on BI rocker; here, the girl is doing the more difficult variation of the FO edge. (That's what the commentators will point out during televised performances.)

DBNY - I think it will probably pass because of the "Encouragement" of the test level. They're looking for center, strength, and position more than correctness of edge. The judges may ask for a reskate if they're fussy, but I doubt they'll be checking edges - more likely they just want to see the skater off the toepick. I wouldn't expect a retest unless the judges saw other weaknesses.

The skater doesn't have to perform a scratch spin; a simple pique spin will fulfill the requirements.

Yes, I was referring to the edges in the spin, not the entrance edge. I mentioned that sometimes the problems within the spin with getting on the correct edge can be caused by a poor or unusual entrance. I agree with you, however, that the FO variation is much harder, but I don't think a skater at this young age/level is intentionally aiming for a higher GOE.

I also agree after hearing some comments by others that the spin would likely pass based on the fact that this is a basic test where judges are looking for a centered, fast spin that meets the revolutions required.

[dbny]

is not getting a hook also the reason why some people do a ccw right inside edge spin instead of a backspin?

IMO, the answer is (mostly) no. From what I've seen, most backspins that are (unintentionally) on the FI edge happen after the hook, and result from a shift of weight from the spin spot to farther back on the blade.

I thought DBNY was talking about the edge WITHIN the spin, not the entrance edges.

DBNY - I think it will probably pass because of the "Encouragement" of the test level. They're looking for center, strength, and position more than correctness of edge. The judges may ask for a reskate if they're fussy, but I doubt they'll be checking edges - more likely they just want to see the skater off the toepick. I wouldn't expect a retest unless the judges saw other weaknesses.

The skater doesn't have to perform a scratch spin; a simple pique spin will fulfill the requirements.

Yes, I was referring to the edges in the spin, not the entrance edge.

Correct, that is what I am talking about.



DBNY - I think it will probably pass because of the "Encouragement" of the test level. They're looking for center, strength, and position more than correctness of edge. The judges may ask for a reskate if they're fussy, but I doubt they'll be checking edges - more likely they just want to see the skater off the toepick. I wouldn't expect a retest unless the judges saw other weaknesses.

The skater doesn't have to perform a scratch spin; a simple pique spin will fulfill the requirements.


I also agree after hearing some comments by others that the spin would likely pass based on the fact that this is a basic test where judges are looking for a centered, fast spin that meets the revolutions required.

I think you are both right. We'll soon know. I'm hoping for some interesting comments from the judges. I'll post the test results later this week.

[Sessy]

Ah okay :) Just curious


The skater doesn't have to perform a scratch spin; a simple pique spin will fulfill the requirements.
What's that? I've never heard that name yet. (sorry about all the questions I don't know what's up with that today)

[SynchroSk8r114]

Ah okay :) Just curious


What's that? I've never heard that name yet. (sorry about all the questions I don't know what's up with that today)

I believe that would be a simple one-one foot upright spin in which the free leg does not actually cross over the skating leg as it does in a regular scratch spin. Basically, this may be where the skater spins on their skating leg with their free leg bent at the knee and lifted directly off the ice, like a one-foot glide position.

[dbny]

The skater passed. No comments on the spin, no reskates.

[kayskate]

Has anyone ever seen a PrePreliminary FS test where the skater did a FO scratch spin? I don't know why this wouldn't pass, but I think it must be almost unprecedented to see that spin at this level.


It would be unprecedented if it were intentional and the skater could also do the BI version. However, the skater is doing what s/he can do instead of the basic version. FO forward spins are considered harder as *variations*, as are FI backspins. Based on my understanding a FO forward upright cannot actually be a "scratch" b/c the toe pick cannot graze the ice w/o the skater catching the toe and probably falling forward.

It seems the skater's wt is not properly positioned. The challenge for the coach would be to maintain this unusual skill while teaching the skater the more traditional version upon which the other spins are based.

Kay