Losing waltz(3) jump when working on Axels

[SkatingOnClouds]

Okay, so today coach got me working on preparation for axels. From a T position, jumping with the knee up. Later in the session she wanted me to do waltz/loops from T position. And I just kept falling over. It was like I had totally lost the ability to do a waltz jump.

Is this a common problem?

[Sessy]

By T-position you mean standstill? Cuz jumping the waltz jump from standstill is harder than from an edge, axel prep or not.

[peanutskates]

a bit off topic, but don't you guys think that practicing waltz jumps from a standstill helps them loads, as you need more power -> you get more power form an edge takeoff?

[SkatingOnClouds]

Doing waltz jumps from a standstill removes some variables that you can get with your entry set up. I can certainly pop up waltz/loops a lot easier from the standing start.

I think it is the action of bringing the right knee (CCW) through bent rather than aiming for a straight leg as it extends out that threw me. For a waltz jump I bend the free leg slightly on the entry edge, but reach it out straight for the jump up/forward. Whereas coach had me bending behind and bringing it through knee first for axel prep. And it just seems to throw my whole timing out.

[doubletoe]

Doing waltz jumps from a standstill removes some variables that you can get with your entry set up. I can certainly pop up waltz/loops a lot easier from the standing start.

I think it is the action of bringing the right knee (CCW) through bent rather than aiming for a straight leg as it extends out that threw me. For a waltz jump I bend the free leg slightly on the entry edge, but reach it out straight for the jump up/forward. Whereas coach had me bending behind and bringing it through knee first for axel prep. And it just seems to throw my whole timing out.

Yes, it's different because with a straight right leg waltz jump you tend to jump across the ice, whereas a bent right knee waltz jump needs to take off almost straight up, like the axel. And it's different again when you do a waltz-loop as an axel exercise because that waltz jump needs to be smaller and sort of straight up, but without a bent right knee (at least I can't do a waltz-loop from a bent knee waltz jump). So I need to do a small, straight-leg waltz-loop as a test to make sure I'm taking off straight up and staying aligned over my landing hip, then I need to do the bent knee waltz jump as a separate exercise to warmup the takeoff for the actual axel.

a bit off topic, but don't you guys think that practicing waltz jumps from a standstill helps them loads, as you need more power -> you get more power form an edge takeoff?
I think so.

[kander]

It's not unusual for a single to deteriorate when you start working on doubles (or the axel). Your mind gets stuck in a certain way of doing things.

I'm not a big fan of practicing axels from a standstill. I know it is a common teaching technique, but I think it promotes bad habits.

When I'm doing axels I have to keep thinking in my mind over and over, "waltz jump, waltz jump, waltz jump". If I think "axel" I almost always screw it up. A really good axel is almost identical to a waltz jump in terms of weight distribution and motion. The only difference is the leg might be bent more. The secret to getting a big axel is to learn how to get a big pop on the waltz jump and use the same technique.

Kevin

[Sessy]

Kevin, which leg - kick-through or takeoff?

[SkatingOnClouds]

The secret to getting a big axel is to learn how to get a big pop on the waltz jump and use the same technique.
Kevin

Thanks. Any tips on how to get that big pop?

[antmanb]

Thanks. Any tips on how to get that big pop?

Not that i've even worked on getting axels for some time now but on the three-jump i always find that when i'm slow off the take off edge i get a tiny jump. If i concentrate on holding the LFO and bending my knee i think of having to straighten up and roll off the pick as quickly as i can and pointing my toe at the end then i tend to get a nice high pop on the jump. This is the first thing that seems to go when i haven't practised for a while.

Ant

[kander]

Kevin, which leg - kick-through or takeoff?

I was refering to the kicking leg, although obviously the other leg has to have a good knee bend in it too.

[kander]

Thanks. Any tips on how to get that big pop?

Here is a perfect example:

www.techskate.com/media/swaltz1.avi (http://www.techskate.com/media/swaltz1.avi)

Then look at the single axel and notice the similarity

www.techskate.com/media/sax2.mpg (http://www.techskate.com/media/sax2.mpg)

It takes a lot of speed and energy. The things I try to think of most are to remain square on the take off (don't pull my left side back), don't swing the free leg around, and do a big push off the toe pick. The best looking jumps always follow this simple rule: jump first, rotate second. In other words, try not to pre-rotate.

I was talking to my coach the other day about the axel take off and he claims you have to have somewhat of a skid to get the big height. I think he's right. Clean edge take-offs look great, but they usually don't have the same height. He used Robin Cousins as an example of a guy with a big skid and enormous height.

Good Luck!