Adult Programs - Time Limits

[myste12]

I'm working on a Gold level program for Mids, and I'm having trouble fitting all of the required elements into a 2:38 program. I've got a spiral sequence, 6 jump passes, and 3 spins. I think the spins are costing a lot of time because my coach wants me doing a level 3 combo spin, a level 2 flying camel, and a level 1 layback. Those 3 spins add up to almost a minute of my program! Right now, I'm so far behind the music that we're looking at taking out some of the choreography, but I don't want to lose the character of the program.

I'm just wondering how everyone else fits in all of the required elements, and how do you decide what to leave in and what to take out???

[climbsk8]

It's hard to do! My coach has helped me fit things into my program by shortening the entries into elements, for instance, making a 3-turn entry into a spin instead of a back crossover. She's also helped me with gettin' a move on after jumps and spins are over. It's amazing how much time we spend getting into and out of elements.

Still, I feel like I have to push like crazy to stop before my music runs out. It's just part of the new and "improved" IJS.

[mikawendy]

Are you counting revolutions when you spin? I'm pressed for time in my program, so while I'd like to do as many revs as possible in my forward sit before changing to back sit, I have to cut it shorter than I'd like, to about 1 rev above the minimum per foot. Otherwise, I'm late at the end of my program and don't have time to do spin number 3 of the 3 that I'm allowed (in Bronze).

I think there's a bonus in IJS for a spin with more than something like ?11 revs in any one position, but who has the time?

[coskater64]

The spin becomes a level 2 if you hold a good position for 8 revs, that means the sit must be 90 degrees and the layback must be laid back or to the side and its 8 revs in the position not starting the spin. If you are a fast spinner then its fine if you are a slow spinner and they lack quality then -- maybe not the best idea.

My suggestion about fitting everything into a gold program is the very unhelpful, ...skate faster:roll: . I would follow the general rule of do what you do well, if your level 3 spin is a crapshot then go for a good level 2 that will get positive grades, that is the general rule you should follow, don't do something that will garner a negative score, its a points game, earn those points.

Doubletoe can flush the answer out further as she is currently a gold lady and an IJS geek :halo: .

Of course I don't jump anymore, so...take it for what its worth.:lol: :lol:

[doubletoe]

I'm actually having that problem myself right now. My last spin is a change foot combination spin but I run out of music right as I'm changing feet. What my coach said this morning was along the same lines as what coskater64 said, i.e., we need to somehow shorten the connecting times between elements. That means fewer strokes with more power per stroke. Right before the spin is a lutz combination from a spread eagle entrance, so I'm going to try to do two fewer crossovers before the spread eagle, then shorten the spread eagle and see if that saves me enough time. If that's not enough, I'll see if I can shorten the connecting times between the jumps that precede that by cutting out a crossover or two. I'll also see if I can shorten my last spiral by a second (which will require enough flexibility to attain the position immediately). If I'm still running into trouble on the final spin, I'll just have to change the spin to one that won't be worth as much but won't get me a -1 time deduction.

[myste12]

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad that I'm not alone with my struggle to cram all of the elements into a program!

My coach has suggested the "skate faster" approach, but I'm honestly moving at top speed right now. The only place I could pick it up is into my double toe, but that goes right down the crapper if I rush it.

Spins are definitely my strong point, so my coach doesn't want to take them out or lower the levels. The flying camel is a bit hit or miss, but I usually miss when I'm behind the music and trying to catch up...

Most likely, I'll have to take out some of the choreography between elements. I could take out a flourish and a bit of footwork before the spiral sequence, a cool hoppy thing before my footwork, the triple 3 turn before my flip combo, and the spread eagle into my layback. That would leave me with hardly any connecting choreography, but I think I could get all of the elements in.

[slusher]

Skate faster and with more power. I really liked my music from last year but since the requirements changed I added another spin and two jumps, and a full ice spiral sequence. How I did it was to loose the crosscut entries into spins, they're all from 3 turn, and, another trick, is one of the spins is right after a jump so I don't have to do anything to modify my speed, I land, and step right into a spin. This is how we stuck in a combo and a sit/backsit in an area that used to be a preparation for the footwork sequence. It had a dramatic flourish and a breathing moment. Yup, I guess I don't get to breathe anymore either.

[daisies]

The spin becomes a level 2 if you hold a good position for 8 revs...
Just to clarify, it's only a level 2 if there is second feature, like a difficult variation or change of edge. A spin with only one feature, such as eight revolutions in one position, is still only a level 1 ... which I think is kinda dumb, since *no* features is also a level 1, so if you can only do one you might as well do none and conserve your energy. :)

[coskater64]

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that I knew holding it was good but it seemed to easy to add a level just because you could hold the spin...:lol:

[climbsk8]

The 8-rev bonus is a good argument, especially at bronze and silver levels, for doing good old-fashioned upright scratch spins, with positive GOEs. Everybody complains that at the international level spins look freaky and ugly these days, but I think the rules allow us adult skaters to go the other way ... pick a narmal spin, do it well, and get a bonus for it.

[myste12]

Yup, I guess I don't get to breathe anymore either.

Exactly!!! :lol:

I have one very short one foot glide/pose before my final combo jump straight into my final spin where I can take a deep breath. That's the only "breathing moment" I have in the whole program, and my coach wants to take it out. 8O

[starskate6.0]

Hi everyone

Its been a long time since I got on this . But here I am and back on the ice.
Regarding the "required elements " for the Adult gold Qualifying .
My program is complete however , Based on what Im reading here I may have missed some of the elements in the list I have . Can someone send me the link for requirements or a list so I can check it with what Iv got. I know myself best and I have a feeling I have once again screwed this up . :??
Thanks

[mikawendy]

Can someone send me the link for requirements or a list so I can check it with what Iv got. I know myself best and I have a feeling I have once again screwed this up . :??
Thanks

Well-balanced program requirements for adult programs under IJS can be found here (http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.asp?id=313)

Click "Singles (6/28/07)"

(This PDF file also shows well-balanced program requirements for Adult Silver and Adult Bronze, which are not judged under IJS.)

[doubletoe]

The 8-rev bonus is a good argument, especially at bronze and silver levels, for doing good old-fashioned upright scratch spins, with positive GOEs. Everybody complains that at the international level spins look freaky and ugly these days, but I think the rules allow us adult skaters to go the other way ... pick a narmal spin, do it well, and get a bonus for it.

As Daisies pointed out, doing 8 revolutions in position may get you +GOE, but you'll need one additional feature for a level 2 spin. Also, the 8 revolution feature does not apply to upright spins unless done in a difficult variation of the upright position (full split or Biellmann, for example).


I have one very short one foot glide/pose before my final combo jump straight into my final spin where I can take a deep breath. That's the only "breathing moment" I have in the whole program, and my coach wants to take it out. 8O

Sounds way too familiar. I tried somehow shortening the connecting moves before my final jump pass to give myself more time for the final spin, but this morning I skated my first competition of the season and found myself still a little short on time for that final spin. I don't think it's wise to take out my final breathing move heading into that jump pass, so I may have to change my final spin to a less valuable spin that I can go into immediately from the landing of my final jump. I hate to admit defeat, but. . . :cry:

[tidesong]

I think I went a bit far this year by concentrating too little on choreography and plus nerves, the little choreography was totally butchered by my on the last competition so obviously I did have time for all the elements. I don't recommend that though. Got a harsh reminder that PCS are still about half the total score.....

Regardless, here are some time saving manuevers:
- Using back entry for spins to gain levels (saves you three rotations of anything else)
- Spend as much time in spins (while limited by rules) in positions that you go faster in. So for most people, any kind of catchfoot, arms close to body positions that you can do if you can do, that make you go faster, use it so that you get more rotations in less time.
- Step directly into jump after spiral or step sequence
- choreography/moves in the field straight into jumps

Said before: 3-turns into spins, spins right after jumps

[singerskates]

I have a solution that most of you won't like.

Move to Canada, become Canadian and compete at Adult Canadians. Your FS program times here in Canada for "Adult Skaters" only are a minute give or take 10 secs longer than US Adult program times in every level from Adult Bronze up. Then you'd have the time to break and get everything done.

I'm working on a Gold level program for Mids, and I'm having trouble fitting all of the required elements into a 2:38 program. I've got a spiral sequence, 6 jump passes, and 3 spins. I think the spins are costing a lot of time because my coach wants me doing a level 3 combo spin, a level 2 flying camel, and a level 1 layback. Those 3 spins add up to almost a minute of my program! Right now, I'm so far behind the music that we're looking at taking out some of the choreography, but I don't want to lose the character of the program.

I'm just wondering how everyone else fits in all of the required elements, and how do you decide what to leave in and what to take out???

[techskater]

I have a lot of elements that move in and out of the last ones. For example, I open with a jump and step DIRECTLY to the CCoSp and almost immediately to the footwork out of the spin. It works, I get in my 10 elements and the transitions in 2:39:59

[CanadianAdult]

Move to Canada, become Canadian and compete at Adult Canadians. Your FS program times here in Canada for "Adult Skaters" only are a minute give or take 10 secs longer than US Adult program times in


There is no minimum required time either. I could do 3:10 but am doing 2:01 because I want to skate and get it over with.

Another suggestion: Step right into a spin from your starting position.

[PattyP]

I haven't posted here in a long time either, but this topic hit close to home.

IJS seems to be taking joy out of skating for me. The program becomes rush, rush, rush to rack up points. I had to scratch my FS this weekend because of the lack of breathing time in my program. If you're not 100% healthy & trained, forget it. The more difficult spins and footwork just take a lot more time...and energy. :giveup: Maybe I need to tell my coach to forget about the points and just let me skate a nice program.

Anyway...thanks for letting me vent.

[jazzpants]

I'm not doing IJS, but cutting footowork sure feels familiar with me. My primary coach had spent the better part of 2008 shortening up my entrances just so I can get in 3 spins (1 of which is a combo spin) and 4 jumps (1 3 jump seq, 2 2-jump combo, 1 single.), straightline footwk, and a small spiral into a 1:40 program. Not fun... but gotta do it.

[techskater]

I haven't posted here in a long time either, but this topic hit close to home.

IJS seems to be taking joy out of skating for me. The program becomes rush, rush, rush to rack up points. I had to scratch my FS this weekend because of the lack of breathing time in my program. If you're not 100% healthy & trained, forget it. The more difficult spins and footwork just take a lot more time...and energy. :giveup: Maybe I need to tell my coach to forget about the points and just let me skate a nice program.

Anyway...thanks for letting me vent.

I know how you feel about being healthy and trained! I competed this weekend on the recovery end (not quite over it yet) of that nasty respiratory thing going around the Midwest and my spins abandoned me! :giveup: Well, they abandoned me long about last Sunday when I thought I was going to throw up in the middle of them. They have been very bad for the last whole week because of being sick.

[PattyP]

I know how you feel about being healthy and trained! I competed this weekend on the recovery end (not quite over it yet) of that nasty respiratory thing going around the Midwest and my spins abandoned me! :giveup: Well, they abandoned me long about last Sunday when I thought I was going to throw up in the middle of them. They have been very bad for the last whole week because of being sick.

Yep, that's the same crap going around So. Cal too. I had 3 bouts of it since Christmas. Ugh. We were calling it CaliCough. Its very hard to skate a program when you feel like you're going to cough up your lungs!

You had more guts than me to go out and compete anyway. Good job!

[jazzpants]

Yep, that's the same crap going around So. Cal too. I had 3 bouts of it since Christmas. Ugh. We were calling it CaliCough. Its very hard to skate a program when you feel like you're going to cough up your lungs!

You had more guts than me to go out and compete anyway. Good job!I got mine visiting my relatives in NYC... anyone have an idea of what to call that? ("Typhoid Yankee," perhaps??? :P :lol: ) Two months after my initial hit with the flu, I'm still recovering from it in the sense that I still feel congested. I have to drink LOTS of water and clear broths and hardly any milk products to not end up coughing.

My energy level SUCKED big time!!! I still think though that it has to do with the cold weather and my very hectic as of late work schedule more than anything else though. 8O

[PattyP]

I got mine visiting my relatives in NYC... anyone have an idea of what to call that? ("Typhoid Yankee," perhaps??? :P :lol: ) Two months after my initial hit with the flu, I'm still recovering from it in the sense that I still feel congested. I have to drink LOTS of water and clear broths and hardly any milk products to not end up coughing.

My energy level SUCKED big time!!! I still think though that it has to do with the cold weather and my very hectic as of late work schedule more than anything else though. 8O


Oh sure...you're the one who brought it to the West Coast! :P ;)

[jazzpants]

Oh sure...you're the one who brought it to the West Coast! :P ;)And I would take credit for that, except when I got back to the office the Monday after New Years, half my office was out sick with the flu!!! :twisted: :P :lol: Also, while I was in NYC, I was IM'ing e-skater (who's up in very northern CA) and she told me that she's been sick with said flu too!!!

This flu is NASTY $#!T, I tell 'ya!!! 8O

[starskate6.0]

Well-balanced program requirements for adult programs under IJS can be found here (http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.asp?id=313)

Click "Singles (6/28/07)"

(This PDF file also shows well-balanced program requirements for Adult Silver and Adult Bronze, which are not judged under IJS.)

Thanks Mika

You know me , I do tend to work on the entertainment side of programs instead of whats required and under the ISU judging system I really should pay more attention . Thanks again.
Ross:)

[myste12]

I've decided that I'm not going to let IJS spoil my joy in my program. So, I'm going to spend less time sticking my foot in my ear to earn points, and more time actually skating. That means I'm dropping two spins down to level ones with the exception of the combo spin which will most likely be a level 2. I'm also taking out the double toe since I haven't landed it in the program yet.

I skated the program without the above mentioned elements and actually enjoyed myself. It was fun to have time to do all of the choreography the way I'm supposed to!

My coach is going to throw a fit at my lesson tomorrow when she finds out what I've done, but I really want to have a program that I enjoy and am proud of. I'd rather have an easier program that I can do well than a really hard IJS friendly program that I stumble through.

[doubletoe]

I've decided that I'm not going to let IJS spoil my joy in my program. So, I'm going to spend less time sticking my foot in my ear to earn points, and more time actually skating. That means I'm dropping two spins down to level ones with the exception of the combo spin which will most likely be a level 2. I'm also taking out the double toe since I haven't landed it in the program yet.

I skated the program without the above mentioned elements and actually enjoyed myself. It was fun to have time to do all of the choreography the way I'm supposed to!

My coach is going to throw a fit at my lesson tomorrow when she finds out what I've done, but I really want to have a program that I enjoy and am proud of. I'd rather have an easier program that I can do well than a really hard IJS friendly program that I stumble through.

Hear hear! Among the 4 changes I made to my program this morning, I also changed my last spin from a level 2 to a level 1. Then I actually skated a clean program for a change! (OK, so I just used a waltz jump and single sal as placeholders for the axel and double sal in my run-through, but whatever :roll: )

[PattyP]

I've decided that I'm not going to let IJS spoil my joy in my program. So, I'm going to spend less time sticking my foot in my ear to earn points, and more time actually skating. That means I'm dropping two spins down to level ones with the exception of the combo spin which will most likely be a level 2. I'm also taking out the double toe since I haven't landed it in the program yet.

I actually had a discussion with my coach yesterday and she ageed to let me drop the levels on all my spins and footwork. Whew. We decided it was better to skate a nice program and enjoy it then to look awkard on the foot-in-ear positions... ;)

You might be suprised, your coach may agree with your decisions as well.