Comparing

[Helen88]

I have a tendancy to compare myself to other people a lot. I read a lot of skater's diaries, blogs, etc, and I've noticed that by the time people get to doing the first of the NISA field moves, they can do some of the easier single jumps, scratch spins, etc. I can barely do a waltz jump, and can't get a singe rotation on my two-footed spin most of the time, (how I passed it I don't know), never mind one footed or anything fancy. I trust my coach, she knows more than I do, but I'll be skating around patch practicing the field moves, while others are doing jumps who can't hold a decent spiral (she wants to put me in for my test before the summer BTW). Should I be concerned? Or should I just worry about myself, and not compare myself to others?

[abbi_1990]

well ur going to have to be able to do a decent waltz jump as well as a toe-loop and salchow before you can take your NISA Level 1 field moves. So unless you can master those jumps before the summer, you wont be doing your field moves test. You will also need a 3rev 2 footed spin, a 2 rev 1 footed spin from standstill, a 4 rev 1 foot spin with correct entry and exit and you will also need a 1rev backspin.

Maybe the other skaters focus only on these jumps and spins and do not start doing the field moves until they can do most of them.

Do you have a copy of the Skate UK Passport Booklet? If you do, then you will have the list of elements that you need to complete before you can take any of the NISA tests. If you dont have a copy let me know and i can give you the elements.

I hope this helps

Abbi

[jskater49]

That's how I feel reading this forum! I've been skating for years and don't even know how to do a salchow, can barely get off the ice for a waltz jump, am just beginning to do a spin with a one foot edge entry, took me four tries to pass the Dutch Waltz solo....need I go on? And in the time I've been reading this forum there are people who started doing less than I could do and now do waltz-loops, salchows, toe loops and sit spins (which I will never be able to do) oh and have handily passed prelim dance tests.

I have learned to just compare my skating now to where I was and be proud of the progress I've made and enjoy what I can do and what I have learned. Make you crazy to compare yourself to others. I'm 50 years old, was never particularly athletic or coordinated and I'm skate two hours a week. I'm doing pretty good for that.

j

[Kim to the Max]

While in some areas, I have compared myself to others (either when I was younger or currently), right now, I really just try to skate for myself and to always try to do something better than I did it the day before.

But...that said, sometimes some comparison is healthy...I find that in some way comparing myself to someone who is at a slightly higher level than I am pushes me to do better...and to keep skating, and practicing, and trying....

[Helen88]

Thanks for the replies - abbi, I haven't bought a passport yet, although my coach has listed the requirements (thanks anyway though :)). Coach said we would worry about Passport later...

[BatikatII]

It's nearly always a bad idea to compare yourself to others - everyone has different aims, abilities, time to give the sport etc. etc.

We didn't have passport when I took my first tests but if I understand it correctly you do need to have passed gold passport before you can take any of the NISA national tests which I presume includes field moves. Therefore as abbi says you will need to be able to do at least a rudimentary salchow, toe-loop, spins etc before you can take the field moves tests.

I couldn't understand how people were passing the first few levels of tests so quickly until I realised that they had met all the elements already in passport - even the backspin which I am still struggling with and need before I can take my level 2 free tests.

Time spent on field moves is never wasted though and certainly if you ever compete the judges will often give more credit to good basics than poor elements.

You can take field moves tests ahead of the free and dance levels ( I have level 4 now but only level 1 free) but I think only after passport - could be wrong.....

Of course a coach can always sign off on passport even if the skater can't do the elements properly as it is tested by coaches themselves but I can't see why they would do that. It seems to balance out - you can rush through passport and take longer to pass the NISA levels after or you can do passport elements well and get through the first level or two of NISA tests quite quickly.

Just as well it wasn't around when I started - my dance coach tells me she wouldn't pass me on the dance passport if I was taking it now because my runs are not good enough. Well they were good enough for an adult championship medal!!!!!!!!:lol:

[abbi_1990]

Thanks for the replies - abbi, I haven't bought a passport yet, although my coach has listed the requirements (thanks anyway though :)). Coach said we would worry about Passport later...

you have to have completed and signed off the Bronze, Silver and Gold passports before you can be entered for any NISA tests e.g. Level 1 Field moves. So im not sure how much later you can really be worrying about Passport if you wanna test Level 1 field moves this summer.....

[Sessy]

Don't compare, is one of the lessons the broken ankle 1-year-no-jumping thing taught me. Sure, it's really sour staying out of the air for a year while I had my lutz, and seeing the rest of the class practice lutzes and axels, but then I get to practice stuff like rockers and stuff. And in the long term, this will make my skating look much better.
We have this Korean girl in my group who's really not that great as far as jumps and spins are concerned, she 2-foots flips, her backspin is like 3 revs and not on an outside edge, etc. But she's *always* got her back arched, *always* keeps the arms up and the hands in ballet-pose, *always* points through the toes, etc. She looks no worse than our elite skaters do, out on the ice.

Also, everybody's body - and, importantly, AGE! - is different. Some will never do a biellmann, others will never do a spread eagle, yet others are dancers, not freestylers, and some others will never be dancers no matter how much ballet they take because they're just sportive, like monkeys, but far from gracious. Everybody's different.
That's the beauty of humanity.
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
:bow:

[Mrs Redboots]

If you spend your time focussing on field moves for now, you will end up with far better edge quality than those who just go straight into jumps and spins!

Maybe, if you are finding jumping too challenging just yet - you don't say what Skate-UK level you are - you could focus on dance, and take the dance passport? That's quite challenging enough.... and time enough for the free skating elements a little later.

[Sessy]

If you spend your time focussing on field moves for now, you will end up with far better edge quality than those who just go straight into jumps and spins!

And the jumps will be far more consistent.

[coskater64]

I don't compare myself to others since I realize I have a different situation...we are all different and comparing ourselves to one another is rather fruitless. Height, weight, natural athletic ability, balance and the ability to get ice time make us all different.

I do agree with what has been said that focusing on the basics and good overall skating skills make progress easier. Having to relearn the basics once you get to a higher level is something you shouldn't have to do if you learned the basics correctly the first time. Those basics make your skating better and will be invaluable as you progress.:lol: :lol:

[Helen88]

Thanks all :)

Sorry, should have mentioned I've finished Skate UK.

[abbi_1990]

you have to finish Skate UK passport Bronze, Silver and Gold aswell as Skate UK before doing any NISA tests.

from what i understand from your first post where you said that you 'can barely do a waltz jump, and can't get a singe rotation on my two-footed spin most of the time, (how I passed it I don't know), never mind one footed or anything fancy' it sounds like you havent passed the Skate UK passport Bronze, Silver and Gold yet.

[Helen88]

No...I've done the first 10 levels, and I was expecting to go on to do Passport (I'm confusing myself here, so apologies to the rest of you :))

[abbi_1990]

yeah you should be going on to do passport now which is where you will learn the 2 footed spin, 1 foot spin, and back spin as well as the waltz jump (which you have already started) and the salchow and toe-loop (cherry flip) plus you will do spiral and stuff aswell, but im sure you know this because you said your coach has given you a list of the elements already

[Helen88]

Okay thanks abbi, I guess I'd better just ask my coach lol. I guess she's the only one who really knows what she wants me to do :)

[abbi_1990]

well yeah your coach will know what she has in mind for you

as far as i know, you are prohibited from taking NISA level 1 field moves or any other of the NISA tests until you have completed and signed off the Bronze, Silver and Gold Passports.

I am currently working on my Silver and Gold Passports but am working on the Level 1 field moves along side them so that i will be ready to do the field moves test more quickly after i have completed the passports.

this is probably what your coach has in mind for you, but unless you finish the bronze, silver and gold passports before about May (if not sooner) then you wont be able to take the NISA Level 1 Field Moves test this summer.

I hope this helps and makes sense!!

[doubletoe]

Everyone learns at a different pace, just like everyone grows at a different pace. I'm sure you've seen kids who are a head shorter than everyone else until they hit around 14 or 15 and then suddenly shoot up and end up the tallest in the class. Skating skills can be like that, too. You can work forever on your basic edges and then suddenly everything will just start to click and you'll get all your single jumps, then your axel, then all your doubles. And, as Mrs. Redboots pointed out, edges are the foundation of all jumps and spins, so don't think you aren't making important progress just because you aren't jumping or spinning!

[peanutskates]

well, I started my passport around March/April. I finished it by July. But I'm still not planning to do my Level 1 test until (maybe) this summer.
Maybe it's my coach - he demands (practically) perfection on everything. but I guess it will end up being just under a year form the time when I passed my passport to when I'll pass my Level 1.
This includes perfecting all the required jumps and spins, learning and perfecting a program, Field Moves, as well as learning some higher elements. It takes a while. So I'm not sure you'll be able to do your Level 1 this summer, unless you learn super-fast.

[fsk8r]

I find that most people I know down the rink only become aware of the higher level skaters when they finish skate UK. Up until then, they are shocked that they are actually skating and are comparing to the people below them and feeling quite good about their skating. At about passport level, people suddenly become aware of those above them. Probably because they start on patch ice, but also because things like jumps and spins get introduced and you can tell a good spin even when you can't do one, but only understand the principal behind it. That's the bit which I found really disheartening.
I like a lot of people here have mainly concentrated on edges for a long time, as I've had lots of coaches around me telling me that the edges are the foundation for everything, so don't stop practising the level 1 field moves. Learning them now and getting them to standard will probably take you as long as getting a basic 3-jump, spin and salcow to get the free section of the passport ticked off. That doesn't mean that they're in anyway ready to be tested for level 1 elements. Hey I had my passport signed off years ago and I still struggle with a backspin. But the passport requires only 1 revolution on that and a fairly low standard at that, and although level 2 elements only requires 1 revolution, that needs a proper entry and exit edge and I've come to the conclusion that they only start counting a spin in test when you pull in, so you actually need more than the 1 rev to pass it (haven't tried yet, but that seems to be what happened for my upright spin for level 1 elements).
It's really hard, but concentrate on your own skating and don't worry about what those around you are doing. If you all progress at the same rate you'll all get to the same destination at the same time, but if you don't you'll be enjoying your skating.
Good luck with sorting the field moves out.

[Mrs Redboots]

Even tough I'm credited with Level 2 moves and level 3 compulsory dances, my coach still makes me go back over the Level 1 moves periodically; like today, I had to do a lap of forward outside edges. This was to get my back into the circle to work on barrel rolls - as I didn't have to do a passport (thankfully - I think I'd still be struggling now!), I never had to learn those!

Helen, you need to discuss with your coach whether you do free or dance passport, or both.

[teresa]

I admit that sometimes I compare myself to others. Of course, it's always the folks who are much better than me. This habit does push me but it doesn't always feel good. For the most part I try to focus on my skills and try to do my best and improve. Some days are better than others. =) Focus on where your at and where you want to go. The best way to journey is focusing on your trip.

teresa

[LW*]

Helen, you need to discuss with your coach whether you do free or dance passport, or both.

Of course, if your coach has been concentrating on field moves and edges with you, it's possible that you're already well on the way to having various bits of the dance passport signed off anyway... I think the best thing for you to do really is ask your coach these questions, because she knows your skating far better than we do and wouldn't suggest doing the test if she doesn't think you have a chance to get everything done in time.

I wouldn't worry about learning things in a different order, not all rinks even follow the skateUK 1-10 (looking back at the rink test scheme I did when learning to skate the levels were totally different to the skateUK ones) and even then some people will have far higher levels in field moves than they do in free, or vice versa, e.g. I've seen several younger kids who have learned loads of jumps early on but don't have the strength/patience to get the edges right, because that's what suits them, plus some of them want to enter the low level competitions. But you will need to do either free/dance passport, so probably worth gently reminding your coach that you haven't started it yet!

[airyfairy76]

As has been mentioned before, yes you do need to pass your Passport before you can do your Level 1 field moves, but if you do the Dance option Passport, this doesn't include any jumps or spins, but is more about footwork and dance steps (currently doing this option myself).

However, my coach has also started teaching me how to spin and jump (only as far as they will be useful for dance, for myself personally), so I am sure your coach will cover everything that will be useful to you, regardless of whether it is on the passport option you do, or not.

[BatikatII]

A note on the comparing thing. Dont forget that it's quite likely you may have some skills that even a much higher level skater doesn't have despite them having better jumps and spins. Thought of this yesterday when my adult skater friend who has NISA level 3 and can land axels, was complaining about the difficulty of part of her new free dance step sequence. It's something I can do so easily and have been able to almost since I first learned a lunge (drag). I think I did it accidentally the first time and then liked it so much it became almost a signature move and went in to almost every programme with my old coach.

My poor friend has struggled to do the move ( basically a lunge with an inside 3 in lunge position to back lunge, gently rising to do an outside 3). She couldn't understand how I could glide along in lunge position and then without appearing to move a muscle glide gracefully around - while she just fell over.:lol:

She will get it - but it's fun to realise that sometimes you can do somethings better than skaters who are way ahead of you in levels.:lol:

[Clare]

I used to be terribly guilty of comparing myself to other skaters and getting frustrated about what I saw as my lack of progress. I am much better at not doing that now and can now see that I am making progress, although I still have my moments.

I think I finally realised that everyone really does learn at different rates and that once I accepted that I'm really not a fast learner at some things (skating unfortunately being one of them!), I have relaxed alot!

I am grateful that my coach is an old school figures fan and refuses to let up on edge work because, having started dance fairly recently, I think it really has helped. Also, as someone else said, when I do finally start to work on spins/jumps properly, I'm hoping all the focus on edges will come into play.

[sk8_4fun]

dont panic! You DO NOT need any spins and jumps to do level one field moves. technically if you follow the 'dance' passport, you can then do the level one field moves test which is forward curves (insides and outsides) back crossovers, forward crossovers, spirals and the back crossovers followed by a sutained outside edge. No jumps or spins unless your doing 'free' passport and level 1 elements.

like the others have said, the field moves are the best foundation you can have for anything else.

[peanutskates]

oh yeah, if you ever start feeling really 'down' about your skating, go on an after school session. It's not too crowded, but all the kids will admire you. at least, they do at my rink - every time I go, I get some kid being amazed at me. such an ego boost!