A question for real coaches and teachers

[Query]

What would you do with a (10 or 11 year old?) group lesson student who doesn’t want to follow instructions? He mostly ignores directions, and what the rest of the class is doing, just races back and forth. He’s been in the program for a while without advancement.

This ice rink is in a poor area. Most of us aren’t real coaches, just volunteers, and the program is run as a charity. Kicking the student out isn’t a real option. There are generally enough of us (about 3 instructors for about 10-15 students) for one to spend most of their time with the student, but we have trouble knowing what to do. We’ve tried several teaching styles: verbal directions, showing, guiding movement, playing games, and class competitions, but maybe it takes a professional to know what to do.

He has coordination problems that make skating difficult, and the lack of attention may be partly physical too, though I think the student has learned he can get away with this sort of thing, if that makes any sense. Perhaps the parents feel the activity is good to help learn coordination, and it gives them a break from dealing with the child.

A solution I've found to some other student's behaviour issues, namely imitating the behaviour so the student(s) can see how silly they are, doesn't work if that behaviour is ignoring us. He is perfectly happy to be ignored.

I may try asking the student what he would do, but I'm doubtful that will help.

A real coach, in charge, sometimes speaks to him very strictly, and he follows directions for a few minutes, then goes back. That coach has to spend time with the other simultaneous classes, and can’t do it all the time. None of the rest of us is very good at being strict. I find it easy to be patient, and have a sense of humor, but strictness is uncomfortable for me, and I can’t imagine continuous strictness would be fun for the student. Besides, I don't want to appear abusive.

This must be something group lesson teachers, skating or public school, deal with all the time. Perhaps it is part of the formal training certified coaches get.

I feel badly about not knowing what to do, and worry about the child hurting himself. I also want to do a good job. I have always believed almost anyone can learn almost anything from the right teacher, and find it frustrating to know I haven’t found a way to be the right teacher for this student.

Any ideas would be welcome.

[doubletoe]

This idea is a bit "out-of-the-box" but if this kid likes just racing back and forth, maybe this is the wrong class for him (or her?). Is there a stroking class that he could be switched to where the whole point is racing up, down and around the ice?

[phoenix]

Personally, when dealing w/ a group class, I usually will say, "You either need to be a part of the class and do what the rest of the class is doing, or you'll have to sit over there until you're ready to join us" (usually in the hockey box). You're right; it's dangerous to have someone racing around unsupervised & you can't tag team him one-on-one.

Don't know if that is an option, and it may seem too strict for you, but that seems to work pretty well, if the kid has any interest in being on the ice. Once they learn that it's with the class or no skating, they usually choose to be with the class so they can skate.

If a kid can't handle being in a group, it simply may not be the best/safest place for him. Have you talked w/ the parents also?

I feel that teaching/learning is a 2 way street--the student has to have some willingness, or it just won't work.

[Sessy]

We have a kid like that at our rink, kinda. Most the time she sits or lays stretched out on the ice or is tying her boots. The coaches don't do much about it as long as she's staying out of everybody's way.

The reason she's like that is that she thoroughly hates ALL sorts of sports (and she's overweight, too) and the parents say she must do some sort of sport twice a week. Skating suits her best because it's closest to her home and is only done 6 months a year. Maybe this kid is like that as well?

[Skate@Delaware]

I have an ADD/ADHD student, age 9 in one of my classes. She is and energizer bunny and for the first few minutes of her first class with me, she did that..zing, zip all around and not listening.

I "warm" them up by heavy swizzling or skating; one full lap (we have 30 minutes classes so I can't waste too much time). This helps the whole class warm up as well.

I "compromised" without really....I let her choose 2-3 things in her level she wanted to work on (or 2 in and 1 above) and I chose 2-3. We worked on mine first then she got to do hers. BUT she has to do them decently, not sloppy or quickly. HOWEVER I'm not expecting perfection. I do praise her and this seems to be working.

I also don't tolerate kids misbehaving in class. If they do, they get do do laps, usually backwards swizzling (which they hate). Maybe being a mom of two kids has helped. I don't know.

Another thing, kids love being rewarded for doing well. You might want to do stickers for the little kids, and a treasure-type chest for the larger kids. You can get little trinkets from the Dollar Tree or other places and fill a box. At test time, if they get a good "grade" they can get a prize from the box. I'm sure for a few bucks (or some area donations) you can get a good sized treasure trove!

[Query]

Ummm. This is more than ordinary poor coordination and misbehaviour. Unless these effects are the result of a drug used to treat something else, he will not walk normally or be able to hold a conversation with more than a couple sentences without a miracle medical cure.

I just want us to do the best we can, and try to make sure he doesn't get hurt.

[Skate@Delaware]

Well, if he is really uncoordinated, you might want to stress that he wear a helmet "for his own protection" and just do the best you can. If he is a child that was exposed early to toxins (i.e. fetal alcohol syndrome, drugs, lead, etc) then he has a whole slew of problems and your first priority is to make sure he doesn't injure himself or those around him. 2nd would be to make sure he is having fun. I would not worry too much about him actually learning at this point. Just make it fun for now. Lots of games.

Its surprising he can skate if he cannot walk normally but then again, my Wednesday night teen is fairly adept at skating but can't walk one foot in front of the other (heel-toe) without falling over.

[kayskate]

Sounds like the kids is ADHD. I had a kid like that in one of my classes. She would not listen and would not participate. She just skated back and forth and wanted to know when class was over. Talk to the parent. Is the kid falling a lot? If the kid can stay w/in the class area ( usually a lane) and is not skating too fast or falling all over, I let them skate. The parent may just be glad to get the kid to do some activity to run off the extra energy. Help the kid as much as you can, but don't force him unless there is a safety issue. Your class may be the only time the kid gets to skate or gets to do anything athletic. Some kids need a break from the "classroom" and want to just skate. Again, talk to the parent and get a feel for the parent's expectations.

Kay

[slusher]

Single focus, simple commands. Special needs kids need to be told very directly what to do, and sometimes it sound rude like talking to your dog ie "sit", "stand up now" but they don't get verbal clues or their brain gets lost in too many words like please Jimmy it would be really nice if you.............he's lost attention.

What do you need or have to or want to teach him? If he can zip around, can he stop? Should this be the one thing that is most important to learn? Here's an example.

Jimmy, you will learn to stop. I will teach you to stop. Today you will do six stops for me. If you do (whatever the annoying behaviour is) I will give you a warning (pick a cue word, like "stopsign") so that you can refocus on your stopping practice. If you can show me six stops before the end of the lesson, I will let you (fun thing).

I have a kid who listens best when he is constantly moving. I've figured that out and will skate beside him to give instructions because standing still doesn't work. But if his body is occupied, his brain will relax and he will take instruction.

I'd rather have the constantly moving child instead of the one I have who wants to do nothing more than lie at center ice and stare at the ceiling.

Edited to add, if there's any way to talk to his parents or classroom teacher to find out what methods they use, it would be wonderful for consistency. Instead of cue words, which can disrupt a class, some teachers flash a yellow card at a student, just like soccer/football, it's a warning .

[littlekateskate]

Sounds like the kids is ADHD. Again, talk to the parent and get a feel for the parent's expectations.

Kay

I agree. I have a son who on top of adhd has a number of other mental problems. But if you talk to the parent they will be able to give you some ideas that work. My son does skate and we just had to find "his way" of doing it. All kids are different and take different approaches for things. These kids it just takes a little longer to find out what works. But his parents would be a GREAT starting point. They will know what works (timeouts ect) and what might get him focused.

They might be able to give you a reward incentive to use with him. Like my daughter its cookies. If she listens well she gets a cookie before bed/after dinner.

Good luck

[Clarice]

I had a girl kind of like this in one of my classes once. I found that I needed to make eye contact with her before she could pay attention to me. I actually squatted down a little so I was right at her eye level, and had to be somewhat closer in terms of physical space than I usually would be. She simply couldn't focus on me any other way. She was indeed ADHD (I talked to the mom), and they put her in skating to help burn off excess energy. The kid was all over the ice, totally out of control. We focused on skating more slowly but with more control and balance, which was really hard for her. She was otherwise pretty well coordinated, though - sounds like your students has a number of things going on.

[Mrs Redboots]

Do the kid's parents stay in the rink during the session? If so, it might be worth having a word with them - if the child does have special needs, they will know how best to approach him. Failing that, could you ring his school and have a word with his teacher, for similar reasons?

Skating will be so good for him that I'm sure his school will be very supportive of your efforts.

[CanAmSk8ter]

Do the kid's parents stay in the rink during the session? If so, it might be worth having a word with them - if the child does have special needs, they will know how best to approach him. Failing that, could you ring his school and have a word with his teacher, for similar reasons?


With privacy laws in this country, I don't think the teacher would be allowed to discuss the student with anyone but his legal guardians- unless, of course, the legal guardians signed something giving him/her permission. It might be worth having the director ask his parents about that, though- although if this is an after-school program for low-income kids, I'd guess the parents aren't there watching the lesson. The other person who might be ale to give good suggestions would be a physical/occupational therapist, if he works with one.

One of the first things I go over with my classes is that when I'm giving directions, no one should be moving or talking. I usually use my marker to draw a line on the ice, and that's where I expect them to be when I'm giving directions. With large or unruly classes, I'll write each kid's name instead of drawing a line, and everyone needs to have two feet on their name while I'm talking. That might be something to try- giving him the visual/physical cue of "two feet on your name".

Beyond that, I agree with most of what Phoenix said. A 10/11 y.o. is likely large enough that him falling could easily take out and injure another skater, especially if a) he's moving faster than he can control, and b) the other kids on the ice are beginners and wouldn't necessarily be able to dodge or stop quickly to avoid him. I'd tell him at the beginning of the next class that you'll call his attention back to the class twice. After that, he'll have to sit in the hockey box until he feels ready to listen and follow directions like everyone else. Make sure an instructor is keeping an eye on him so that he doesn't just get up and wander off, and he can signal that instructor when he thinks he's ready to rejoin the class.

Also, if you haven't already, work with the whole group on stopping. Emphasize, from a safety standpoint, how important it is to be able to stop quickly. Make it a rule that no one should be skating faster than they can stop- it shouldn't take more than three counts to stop moving. If it does, that's too fast.