question about pick jumps

[Logan3]

My dd has a hard time "picking" straight back. In the toe loop she picks on the right , behind her right foot and sometimes even more right than that. In the flip she picks on the the left, like in the diagonal. It is a consistent error. Her coach in the past tried different things but no progress. Looks like it is hard wired in her brain.
two questions:
1. Are technically speaking the jumps still correct?
2. Did you ever have a student with the same problem?

Thanks!

[CanAmSk8ter]

So she's actually crossing her picking foot behind her skating foot? That's something I haven't encountered. I've had several students who do the opposite, though- on the toe loop, picking in to the left, rather than back, and vice versa on the flip. I see a lot of skaters do this on the flip.

One thing I do is have them try jumping on one of the hockey lines (the fat ones across the middle of the rink work best), doing the three-turn on the line and making sure they pick in on the line too.

What you've described makes me think she's probably pre-rotating by 1/4 turn or so, but without seeing her it's hard to know.

[phoenix]

If my skaters have pick placement issues (& I've mainly had the same thing--they pick out to the side), I'll have them work on just the entrance--push off, glide, 3 turn, reach back & pick---and freeze, with their pick in the ice (doing all this slowly obviously). Then while they hold that position we look to see where the picking foot is. This way they see it & feel it with their own eyes when it's wrong & can begin to correct it without worrying about actually doing the jump. Once it's consistently fixed just walking through the entrance, then we move on to "pop-ups"--where you do jump but don't rotate, so you go straight up & land backwards on the landing foot, but no rotation in the air. This gets them used to the correct picking w/ more speed, but again, without having to worry about the whole jump. Then, when that is consistently good, we go back to the rotated jump.

ETA--the jumps may or may not be pre-rotated at this point, but the real issues will come in when she starts in on doubles. You can get away with a *whole* lot of technique errors on singles, but it's at doubles that the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Better to fix the technique now, than get it too ingrained & have to spend a long time fixing it later.

[Logan3]

So she's actually crossing her picking foot behind her skating foot?


Yes, that is exactly what she is doing in the toe loop. In the flip she picks out in the diagonal, doing exactly the same mistake in the other direction (not crossing).

Initially we thought something wrong with her 3-turn but she is doing the flip out of a mohawk and still the same.

Phoenix: I agree, she will never get to do a double like this. Her coach have tried all of your suggestions with no success. She also told dd to mentally think that she is picking on the other side in order to self correct. No use. I bet she just needs to keep working on it. One day it might click on her brain....I was just wondering if you guys ever seen this before.

[vesperholly]

Phoenix: I agree, she will never get to do a double like this. Her coach have tried all of your suggestions with no success. She also told dd to mentally think that she is picking on the other side in order to self correct. No use. I bet she just needs to keep working on it. One day it might click on her brain....I was just wondering if you guys ever seen this before.
Actually, it might be better to have her NOT practice on her own, especially since it sounds like she's unable to practice the proper technique. Practicing the wrong thing will just reinforce it. Maybe have her only work on toe jumps in lessons, so her coach can be sure she's doing it properly every time?

Technically, it sounds almost like she's so intent on getting her feet crossed that she wants to do it before takeoff. Have you asked her why she picks that way - is she afraid she won't get the whole rotation of the jump, she won't cross her feet, feels more secure, etc? Knowing why she jumps this way will probably help you figure out a way to fix it.

[lov2sk8]

Which direction does she jump?

[Logan3]

Which direction does she jump?

she jumps ccw.

[lov2sk8]

Can she control the back edge with her arms in a checked position with out having to pick in? Most people pick in because they have too.

[Logan3]

I asked my dd why she is doing it and she said that in her mind she thinks this is "straight"....

I asked Coach. She thinks that after the 3-t or the mohawk dd is confused of where the*line* is and what *straight back* means. She told dd to work something in a line and change of direction which I thought I understood at the time but now that I try to put it in words I have no idea.
My new thought is that dd believes that straight back means the center of the circle of the edge she is on. I mean on the toe loop she comes out of the 3-turn in a backoutside edge so I bet her brain stops thinking of "straight" and back means curved to the right....Maybe I should try some drawing with pen and paper with her. I am persuaded it is mental...

Her Lutz btw is fine, I guess because she does not have to pick immediately after a turn ?

Thanks for the answers!

[techskater]

Has she tried bothjumps from just the back edge? We have a skater with a lovely double toe out of edge pulls.

[Skate@Delaware]

My coach had me work on the toe-loop and salchow from the fat hockey lines. I was allowed to curve my 3-turn away from the line only a little bit but basically had to stay close to the line. Maybe your daughter could do this (but not pick in and jump)? When she gets this better, then she can pick in and jump. Using the line gives her a good visual cue-maybe her 3-turns are really curvy.