Eagles and Bauers

[double3s]

So one of my skating goals for 2008 is get a spread eagle and/or Ina Bauer. I've read the previous threads on how to work on these on ice, and found them very helpful but I still have a question.

Here's my problem - I can do them just fine off ice, with great turn out. On ice, I can't hold the position. Coach says it's because of friction (more friction on the ground helps hold the position) and it's a strength issue. I already know how to build strength in the legs in general - Is there a specific drill to build the strength to do these on ice other than "Keep trying"? (Of course I will keep trying.)

Thanks for any suggestions.

[tidesong]

Well you could try wearing socks/stockings and finding a really smooth surface and see if you can still hold the turn out that way lol.

For turn out strength I do this exercise where I lie down on my side with my legs bent then I focus on the turn out muscle to just turn one leg out, working against gravity, so it goes tunout and up then turn back in and knee comes down relative to the ground... then I lie on the other side and repeat for other leg, helps if you have a thera band for extra resistance.

[patatty]

I think some of it is a confidence issue. Spread eagles can be a little scary until you get used to them, and you need to relax your legs enough to get into that position. When I'm nervous, I tense up, and then I can't get the stretch I need. It's also important to keep your butt in and your shoulders relaxed. Once you get into the right position, it doesn't take a lot of strength to hold it.

With Ina Bauers, the key is to put most of the weight on the front leg. If your weight is on the back leg, it won't go anywhere. I have a decent left leg one, but still can't get the right one. If you can do them on the floor, you will be able to do them on the ice with enough practice.

[doubletoe]

I think it's more a matter of technique, timing and flexibility. First, you need to get the feeling for sliding your feet into position while holding onto the boards and just getting the placement of the feet right on the mohawk transition into the spread eagle. Then make sure you can hold that position while pushing your pelvis forward against the boards and pulling your feet closer. If you can do this, flexibility is not a problem and you should be able to do a spread eagle without sticking your butt out.
When attempting the spread eagle in the wild (:P ), really try to get onto a deep outside edge on the leading foot, practically on the side of your blade, and solidify the outside edge by looking over your leading shoulder. If you are on a really deep outside edge when you bring the heel of the free foot into the instep of the skating foot (with the free leg already locked out straight and free foot pointed), it should fall into place behind the leading foot on an outside edge. Continuing to look over the leading shoulder and pushing the pelvis forward will help you hold onto the outside edge.

I think everyone's body is a little different, though, so you'll have to experiment a little to see what works for you. For example, Patatty needs to keep her weight on the front leg for the Ina Bauer, but I'm just the opposite. On a straight or outside Ina Bauer I need to push my pelvis forward and push back onto the back leg as soon as I place it down or I'll slip off my edge (I start with all of my weight on the front foot, then place the back foot down behind it, but you can also do it with the back leg on the ice first and then step down onto the leading leg.)

[SkatingOnClouds]

I don't have much turn out at all, esp in the left hip, so can only do very tightly curved inside edge bauers and eagles.

Wondering others find the best way to go into them. My first coach had me glide on an inside edge, slightly bent skating knee, turn the free leg out and place it down in position with knee slightly bent, then straighten both knees.

Current coach gets us to glide on 2 feet with one foot slightly in front, then curve around, letting the front foot sort of flip around so that it becomes the leading foot in the eagle or bauer, while leaving the other leg still facing the other way. I know I didn't describe that very well, sorry.

What other ways would be good to try (for an aging, inflexible, lower level skater)?

[kayskate]

So one of my skating goals for 2008 is get a spread eagle and/or Ina Bauer. <snip>

Here's my problem - I can do them just fine off ice, with great turn out. On ice, I can't hold the position. Coach says it's because of friction (more friction on the ground helps hold the position) and it's a strength issue. .

I am in the same situation. I could do a beautiful Ina Bauer down the length of the rink in roller skates as a kid. Never got this move on the ice. In my case, I think friction has a lot to do w it. Roller skating is all about friction b/w the floor and wheels. Also a quad skate has a large surface of contact to the floor compared w an ice blade.

Do you have an inside eagle? I find these much easier than outside. I can do a good inside on ice. I used to work on outsides by practicing for 5 minutes every time I skated. I did see improvement but then I went through a period of not skating much and never got back to it. Try to dedicate a set amount of time to it at each practice. Ask your coach for different ways to enter the move. That can make a big difference.

Kay

[Isk8NYC]

Hmmm...I thought you meant an inside spreadeagle or a bauer. Sorry if I'm answering the wrong question.Is there a specific drill to build the strength to do these on ice other than "Keep trying"? My kids have taught me a new drill - they do "figure 8" spreadeagles. Just step into a small inside spreadeagle and glide in a full circle, then change leading feet to do another circle. I like it because it forces me to 1) do both directions and 2) switch sides and get back into position quickly. Give it a try.

I always teach spreadeagles for beginners on the small hockey half-circle near the scorer's box. Just follow the circle, keeping both feet on the line. Gradually make the half-circle bigger and bigger by pushing out your hips and tucking under your bottom.

What other ways would be good to try (for an aging, inflexible, lower level skater)?I love doing my spreadeagle from a two-foot glide, sort of a cross-legged lunge with my leading foot crossed in front. Keeping my "back" blade on the ice, I bring out of the cross position behind me and do a quick three turn to get into the spreadeagle.

When attempting the spread eagle in the wild...You're so funny! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[peanutskates]

What other ways would be good to try (for an aging, inflexible, lower level skater

i'm not sure if this is good for inflexible people (my hips are naturally very open so I don't know) but I like entering them this way: (if you're leading with the left leg)

RFO 3 turn (this gets your right leg on the correct edge)
On the exit, put the left leg down, wihtout changing the edge or anything of your right leg.

[doubletoe]

DISCLAIMER: If you are inflexible--i.e., do not have good turnout, do not try Ina Bauers or spread eagles without first making sure you can turn your feet out 180 degrees while keeping your knees facing the same direction as your feet. If you can't do that, do butterfly stretches, plies and frog stretches until you can. If you still can't, it means your hip joints are too far to the inside and it is structurally impossible for you to do these moves without damaging your knees. At that point, find some other move to master instead (spiral, lunge, hydroblade, etc).

OK, now that that's over with. . . For Ina Bauers, I enter two different ways. I do mine with the right foot leading, so if you do yours left foot leading (like Peanut's, based on the post above), just reverse the "right" and "left."

1. Skating forward, push off to the right, onto a very deep RFO edge, on a deeply bent knee, with left leg opened out and extended behind you. Turn the back leg out, straighten and point the toes. Now bring it down onto the ice behind you and push your weight back onto it, pushing your pelvis forward. Keep pulling the leading shoulder back and looking over the leading shoulder.

2. Back crossovers, Left crossing over Right, then leaving the left foot on a LBI edge, turn the right side out to face forward, turn out the right foot and place it down onto a RFO edge. Push pelvis forward and arch back, locking into position. Keep pulling the leading shoulder back and looking over the leading shoulder.

[jazzpants]

DISCLAIMER: If you are inflexible--i.e., do not have good turnout, do not try Ina Bauers or spread eagles without first making sure you can turn your feet out 180 degrees while keeping your knees facing the same direction as your feet. If you can't do that, do butterfly stretches, plies and frog stretches until you can. If you still can't, it means your hip joints are too far to the inside and it is structurally impossible for you to do these moves without damaging your knees. At that point, find some other move to master instead (spiral, lunge, hydroblade, etc).Thanks for the disclaimer. The last point about hip joints being "too far to the inside" is definitely me! LOL!!! :lol: :P *sigh* (I guess I should be glad though since "supposedly" it should be easy for me to do multi-rev jumps given the closed hip and my height. But I can't even close my legs in to save my life either.)