how do i get height on my flip

[peanutskates]

^see title.

please help!
my flip is really low... :(

thanks

[doubletoe]

To get good height on your flip, you will need all of these things working together:

1. Good momentum going into it.
2. Deep knee bend of your skating knee as you reach back to pick
3. Strong, arched back (not leaned forward) as you reach back, pick and pull
4. Good reach back with the picking leg (The more speed you have, the deeper you need to bend the skating knee and the farther you need to reach back with the picking foot.
5. Picking leg straight and locked out, with toes pointed and facing straight down to the ice. Hold the picking leg low as you reach back and do not lift the foot just before picking.
6. A controlled pick and pull:
(a) Stick the toepick into the ice without banging it in.
(b) Start straightening the skating leg right as your pick goes into the ice, transferring your weight back onto the toepick and pulling yourself back with the picking leg like a scissor motion. It should feel like you are pulling the picking leg forward to meet the skating leg while actually keeping the toepick in the ice. One sweeping motion should pull you back and up into the air.

[liz_on_ice]

To get good height on your flip, you will need all of these things working together:

1. Good momentum going into it.
2. Deep knee bend of your skating knee as you reach back to pick
3. Strong, arched back (not leaned forward) as you reach back, pick and pull
4. Good reach back with the picking leg (The more speed you have, the deeper you need to bend the skating knee and the farther you need to reach back with the picking foot.
5. Picking leg straight and locked out, with toes pointed and facing straight down to the ice. Hold the picking leg low as you reach back and do not lift the foot just before picking.
6. A controlled pick and pull:
(a) Stick the toepick into the ice without banging it in.
(b) Start straightening the skating leg right as your pick goes into the ice, transferring your weight back onto the toepick and pulling yourself back with the picking leg like a scissor motion. It should feel like you are pulling the picking leg forward to meet the skating leg while actually keeping the toepick in the ice. One sweeping motion should pull you back and up into the air.

can I assume the story is exactly the same for the toe loop?

[Skate@Delaware]

can I assume the story is exactly the same for the toe loop?
wow! i was just thinking the same thing...and i am sure the answer is YES!!!

I'm gonna try this tonight...my problem is keeping the picking leg straight! I will have to remember to "lock" it! hehehe!

[LilJen]

doubletoe, just a clarification: Should we have the picking toe/leg turned out? I think this is probably the case--knee should not be pointing down toward the ice but the entire leg turned out--but wanted to check. Does it even make a difference? Inquiring, still-injured-but-recovering picking ankles want to know!

[doubletoe]

No, you want to feel like your picking toe and knee are both facing straight down to the ice, not turned out. If the leg/foot is turned out, your toepick cannot go into the ice properly and it could slip.

When I was learning the flip and lutz, it really helped me to think of keeping the free leg so locked out straight that if somebody came up behind me and did a karate chop to the back of my leg at the knee, it still wouldn't bend at all!

Yes, the technique is the same for the toeloop. :)

[liz_on_ice]

To get good height on your flip, you will need all of these things working together:


5. Picking leg straight and locked out, with toes pointed and facing straight down to the ice. Hold the picking leg low as you reach back and do not lift the foot just before picking.
6. A controlled pick and pull:
(a) Stick the toepick into the ice without banging it in.



7. Do not copy Carolyn Zhang. :lol:

[blackmanskating]

7. Do not copy Carolyn Zhang. :lol:


hahahaha!!!! LOL this is very true. She reaches so high and then slams her picking foot into the ice. I think it kills a lot of her height necessary to get complete rotation. If she fixed that, maybe she won't get downgraded on every jump she does. But at least she attempts triple-triples.

3. Strong, arched back (not leaned forward) as you reach back, pick and pull


I agree with this totally. This helped me land my double flip for the first time. Also be careful that you don't lean too far back when pull in. It will cause you to lean in the air and I promise you, you will land too far back on the blade to land cleanly if at all. I went from one extreme (leaning forward) to the other (leaning back) before I figured this thing out.

I also noticed that for my flip and lutz that my picking foot taps in the ice a little sideways. I keep my leg straight but it goes in a little "pigeon-toed." My toe is pointed down, but my foot is turned slightly in the direction of rotation. So if my Back inside edge for the flip looks kinda like this

(


My toepick goes in like this

\

Whenever I see my tracing it looks like this

( \

I'm not sure if that is totally correct technique but it works for me.




BlackManSKating

[antmanb]

To get good height on your flip, you will need all of these things working together:

1. Good momentum going into it.
2. Deep knee bend of your skating knee as you reach back to pick
3. Strong, arched back (not leaned forward) as you reach back, pick and pull
4. Good reach back with the picking leg (The more speed you have, the deeper you need to bend the skating knee and the farther you need to reach back with the picking foot.
5. Picking leg straight and locked out, with toes pointed and facing straight down to the ice. Hold the picking leg low as you reach back and do not lift the foot just before picking.
6. A controlled pick and pull:
(a) Stick the toepick into the ice without banging it in.
(b) Start straightening the skating leg right as your pick goes into the ice, transferring your weight back onto the toepick and pulling yourself back with the picking leg like a scissor motion. It should feel like you are pulling the picking leg forward to meet the skating leg while actually keeping the toepick in the ice. One sweeping motion should pull you back and up into the air.

I know i've posted this before but i still have the same problem. I try and do all of this but the problem i have is in the pick and pull - i pull so much that i'm two footing the take off. The tracing that i leave often has the edge line of the BI edge coming past the pick mark left my the picking foot.

I've managed to clean it up so that edge line no longer circles past and around the pick mark left but the best i can get is the edge stopping just about level (or slightly past the pick mark).

If i pick up the skating foot like my coach says i don't seem to fully get my weight back onto the picking leg and it feels like there's nothing to jump with....help!

Ant

[jwrnsktr]

I really like the step by step instructions. You can correct one thing at a time if there is a problem. Good job! I'm only doing a half flip at this time,but when the problem toe is healed, I'm going back to trying a whole flip with these instructions printed and on the boards......

[FlyAndCrash]

The tracing that i leave often has the edge line of the BI edge coming past the pick mark left my the picking foot.
Ant

My coach says to pull back almost into pre-rotation. When I go into the actual jump/air phase, I am already at about 7 o-clock (ccw on my way to fully forward). I don't know when exactly I pick up my non-picking foot, but it does travel to and past the picking foot on or close to the ice.

[LilJen]

Thanks, everyone!! Coach and i actually worked on my half-flip this morning and I posed the same question to her (about whehter the free leg is turned out or pointing straight down to the ice). She pointed out that I tended to pick wide. . . meaning my free foot is NOT where it should be during the 3-turn. . . meaning my RFO3turns need some HELP (which I kind of knew anyway). . .

[jazzpants]

7. Do not copy Carolyn Zhang. :lol:hahahaha!!!! LOL this is very true. She reaches so high and then slams her picking foot into the ice. I think it kills a lot of her height necessary to get complete rotation. If she fixed that, maybe she won't get downgraded on every jump she does. But at least she attempts triple-triples.I actually have the opposite problem. My NYC coach says that I don't pick straight down, but on the side (bad #1) and that I don't pick hard enough. And then he demonstrates picking on the ice and you hear this slam toe pick noise on the ice to push his point. :lol: )

Yeah, I agree! I'm quite quiet. I need to take my aggression out on the ice a bit more! :twisted: :P :lol:

[doubletoe]

I know i've posted this before but i still have the same problem. I try and do all of this but the problem i have is in the pick and pull - i pull so much that i'm two footing the take off. The tracing that i leave often has the edge line of the BI edge coming past the pick mark left my the picking foot.

I've managed to clean it up so that edge line no longer circles past and around the pick mark left but the best i can get is the edge stopping just about level (or slightly past the pick mark).

If i pick up the skating foot like my coach says i don't seem to fully get my weight back onto the picking leg and it feels like there's nothing to jump with....help!

Ant

It sounds like you need to transfer your weight to the picking foot a lot more, and do it sooner. That will allow you to lift the knee of the other leg, getting that foot off the ice and helping you take off straight up over the picking/landing leg.

If you are having trouble getting enough weight onto the picking foot, focus on these things:
- Arched, rigid back, with shoulder blades squeezed together. Try to feel like someone is pulling you back from a string that is attached between your shoulder blades.
- Right (picking side) shoulder stays pulled back

It also sounds like you might need to make your takeoff edge straighter and more controlled.
- Starting at the line, push out onto a LFO edge, pushing out a ilttle to the *right* of the line, aiming toward 1:00 (assuming 12:00 is the line). Keep the LFO edge long and flat and do your 3-turn parallel to the line.
- Keep the left arm checked in front on the 3-turn exit. Try looking at the fingers of your left hand and making sure you can still see them when you feel your pick enter the ice.
- Look at your tracings. The 3-turn should be on the right side of the line and your 3-turn exit edge should bring you back to the line so that you pick on the line and nothing is on the other side of the line except your landing.

[mikawendy]

7. Do not copy Carolyn Zhang. :lol:

OMG, that made me laugh out loud!:lol: :lol: :lol:

I have more problems picking on the flip than on the lutz. My two biggest problems are that I pick with a bent leg and/or that I hold the BI edge too long and uncheck my shoulders, which then makes my BI edge squiggle from BI to slight flat/slight outside, then back to BI, and it really messes with my rotation and height.

Thanks for posting all the tips, everyone!

[antmanb]

It sounds like you need to transfer your weight to the picking foot a lot more, and do it sooner. That will allow you to lift the knee of the other leg, getting that foot off the ice and helping you take off straight up over the picking/landing leg.

If you are having trouble getting enough weight onto the picking foot, focus on these things:
- Arched, rigid back, with shoulder blades squeezed together. Try to feel like someone is pulling you back from a string that is attached between your shoulder blades.
- Right (picking side) shoulder stays pulled back

It also sounds like you might need to make your takeoff edge straighter and more controlled.
- Starting at the line, push out onto a LFO edge, pushing out a ilttle to the *right* of the line, aiming toward 1:00 (assuming 12:00 is the line). Keep the LFO edge long and flat and do your 3-turn parallel to the line.
- Keep the left arm checked in front on the 3-turn exit. Try looking at the fingers of your left hand and making sure you can still see them when you feel your pick enter the ice.
- Look at your tracings. The 3-turn should be on the right side of the line and your 3-turn exit edge should bring you back to the line so that you pick on the line and nothing is on the other side of the line except your landing.

Ok this sounds like fantastic advice - i'm going to print it and try it. I know that i tend to pitch forward/bend at the waist when i jump so i think this is contributing. I'm starting to "feel" the loop a lot more despite having to jump from the right foot (which is the weaker foot and leg) so i think i'm learning to get my weight back. I'll try this and let you know how i get on. Thanks for the advice.

Ant

[doubletoe]

Ok this sounds like fantastic advice - i'm going to print it and try it. I know that i tend to pitch forward/bend at the waist when i jump so i think this is contributing. I'm starting to "feel" the loop a lot more despite having to jump from the right foot (which is the weaker foot and leg) so i think i'm learning to get my weight back. I'll try this and let you know how i get on. Thanks for the advice.

Ant

By the way, making sure you can see the fingers of your left hand when you feel your toepick go into the ice really serves two purposes: First, it keeps your left shoulder checked so you don't pre-rotate. Second, you have to hold your arm at shoulder level and parallel to the ice in order to see your fingers without looking down, and that will keep you from piking forward when you pick. I hope some of this helps! :)

[vesperholly]

I find that concentrating on reaching back far with my picking leg gives me good height.

[Caris]

I'd just like to add that I tried a lot of these tips today which resulted in a much higher cleaner flip so thank you everyone! :mrgreen:

[kander]

Sometimes it can overload your brain when you are presented with a whole bunch of things you have to do at the same time. As another approach, try thinking about jumping first and rotating second. Try not to over rotate while you're still on the ice.

Kevin

[techskater]

To Kevin's point, working on one correction at a time can be helpful. I'm in the process of trying to get a couple jumps sorted out and I am working on the upper body part first. Once it's consistent and I don't have to consciously think about it, I will work on my lower body. I tend to have more problems with upper body then lower when struggling on jumps which is why I use this approach.