Retry contest, aka, the testers' consolation thread

[phoenix]

In light of some of the conversation on the testing thread, I thought this might be interesting. Please list:
- what's the most times you've had to retry a test before passing?
- what were some of the reasons for the retries (nerves, too slow, missed elements, falls, etc)?
- what made it finally work for you (got stronger, conquered nerves, alochol)?

Misery loves company, so please share!

My magic number is 4, for the Rocker Foxtrot. Mainly it just was that the edges were too flat, and I wasn't strong enough to skate the depth of edge they wanted. My coach made me work on nothing but knee bend for about 4 months, and then we went back to it. Finally by that time I'd gotten strong enough & then I passed.

I also took my American 3 times--first time the dance was just generally pretty weak. 2nd time it was much stronger but didn't have enough expression ("down wasn't DOWN enough, up wasn't UP enough"). 3rd time I knew it was good, I'd worked a ton on the expression, even added arm movements to accentuate the down & up of the knees, and nailed it! I knew it was ready & went out totally confident.

The most I've *heard* of anyone failing was 13 times, back in the day when you had to solo the European Waltz. I personally know someone who took that one 10 times (when you didn't have to solo it!).

[jskater49]

The most I ever tested something was the both the Dutch Waltz - it was my foruth try before I passed it and then it was singled paneled with a sympathetic judge. It was so humiliating because 5 year olds can pass that test the day after learinging it.

First time, it was the first time testing in about 4 years so I was very nervous and my knees were shaking and it was just awful.

The second time my timing was off.

The third time I really thought I had it...one judge passed me, but the others didn't like the quality of my edges. Everyone agreed the judges were tough that day.

My daughter has had to retry the Rocker Foxtrot 4 times. SHe is an excellent dancer. The problem was that her coach actually taught it to her wrong and the fourth time she tested it a sympathetic judge got her out on the ice and taught it to her correctly. The trick to getting that rocker edgy enough is entry and placement and if you do that wrong, you will not have a strong enough edge. The next day she competed it the way the judge told her to do it, got first place against the book and the judges told her had she tested it that way she would have passed easily. She hasn't retested because there have been no tests but she taught another student of said coach the right way to to it and that girl passed the test. We have a new dance coach now.

DD also took her Novice moves 4 times - passed on the 5th and other than the first time she was capable of passing it over but just had a series of mishaps.

j

[Debbie S]

I had to take Bronze MIF 3 times. The other tests I've taken (Pre-Bronze MIF and FS, Bronze FS) I passed on the first try. I've already got 1 retry on Silver MIF and I suspect that test may break my retry record (heck, I might break everyone's Silver MIF retry record). :oops: ;)

The first time I tested Bronze MIF, the test was borderline and I stumbled a little on the first move (forward perim stroking). I was also scratchy and had posture issues so I got marked down on the back perim stroking and power 3's, so no reskates. The second time I tested (5 months later), I was totally ready to pass but nerves (and the frigid rink temp) got the better of me. And I had a slight bobble/wobble on the back perim stroking and assumed that I blew it, and the power 3's (next move) were terrible. As it turned out, the judges passed me on the back perim and no one commented on the wobble. My power 3's however, were failed (well, 1 of the judges was feeling charitable and passed them and the test), and I failed the 5-step too b/c 2 of the judges thought my timing was uneven and the edges weren't deep enough (they were dance judges).

The third time (6 weeks later), my coach instructed me to '"skate with an attitude". She also told me that I'd have to just get sick of practicing the moves (which I was - lol) and go in with the resolve that this was going to be the last time I'd have to do them. I think it helped that it was a last-minute thing and I didn't really have time to get nervous. About a week and a half ahead of time, the test chair sent out an e-mail saying that she'd arranged for 1 judge to come in during a (lightly-attended) Mon evening FS session and judge single-panel-eligible tests. At first, my coach and I decided against it b/c I tend to freak out a little when I practice MIF with others weaving in and out around me. But then, Thurs before the test session, my coach decided I should give it a shot. So I only had 4 days to think about it, and I think testing on an FS session actually helped in that it felt like a practice (where I could do the moves perfectly), plus I was able to warm up for about a half hour, up to the moment of my test. I went out, skated the moves 'with an attitude', determined to make this the last time I did them, and passed. The saga was over! :D

[icedancer2]

I took the 14-step and foxtrot for the first time when I was 13 and didn't pass them - I don't know why, but I remember that my coach was really really MAD - that was in the days when you had to have all three judges pass you and it was called "Fail" - not retry. I think she was angry with one of the judges. Times have not changed that much, eh?

Fast forward 20 years - I took these two dances again when I was 34. The minimum age for "Adult" at that time was 30 - but since I skated as a kid I thought I would test them Standard. The partnering was okay, but I failed because of the solos - it was 11:30 on a Monday night at a very very very cold rink in Rhode Island and I was stiff and cold, could not get any flow or push to save my life on the solos. I was also out there with three teenagers and they double-paneled the test - so compared to those teenagers I just looked lousy and actually I think I put my foot down on the RO edge (lilt) on the Foxtrot. A judge afterwards told me coach that he would have passed me if I had taken them "Adult". the next day I told my coach I wanted to do the dances "Adult" - he was disappointed but I had no problem with them the next time - in fact, I also took my European that day and made it a "three-dance sweep".

Right after that I started working on my Silvers and my coach announced he was moving in 6 weeks - so we tested the American and the Rocker. Six weeks was not enough time - I managed to pass the American but not the Rocker. No big deal there.

The most humiliating thing that ever happened to me test-wise was when I took my 2nd figure test. It was a very packed test session and in those days, if the judges didn't think they were going to be able to pass the test, they would stop the test half-way through and that was it - you couldn't complete the test - it was called "getting pulled". I got pulled on my 2nd test - the figures were really bad I guess but I never managed to take that test again. Very traumatic thing for a 12-year-old. Good thing they don't do that anymore!!

[*JennaD*]

Oooh my....

Well, the most times I've had to try a test is 5...on my American Waltz...I passed on my 5th try (finally)!!

The first time I failed it was because my dance was not that great...and I also had just gotten back from Mexico the day before, and then I had to get on the ice and test after not skating for 2 weeks....

The second time I failed, well..that one's a long story...I won't get into it :)

THe third time, i was apparetnly off time on my 3-turns, and hte fourth time I failed, no one can really explain, because my 2 dance coaches were in shock that I didn't pass! lol I think the judge was just in a mood because she didn't write anything really "negative" on the paper, she just ticked off the little "retry" box...:frus:

I finally passed though...I think I was just not too nervous...I was actually very confident and went into the test thinking that there was no doubt that I was going to pass...which worked well since I DID pass, but if I had failed, Iw ould have felt very very crushed...lol

[Ellyn]

I have taken tested the Ten-Fox three times and Preliminary MITF twice and haven't passed either yet, so they will take at least four and three tries, respectively.

Everything else I've passed on either the first or second try.

[Terri C]

Hummm, I guess I need to chime in here.
I'm becoming the Queen of Retrys as far as the Bronze freestyle test is concerned (six retries! :frus: ). For the most part, it's a issue of nerves coming into play to the point where the elements just don't happen. I've learned my lesson from last week that the backscratch, loop, sitspin and salchow need to be consistent and then some before I retry.
Another factor that I think is coming into play is that the program I currently have not been competing all that much,taking the beginning of last season off to pass Bronze moves. Then work committments and a strained ankle ligament kept me home from NYI and Easterns the beginning of the year. While I did one competition this summer, a family wedding kept me out for fall events.

So, here's to getting back on the competition bandwagon, first in a Artistic event at local competition (they are only offering Artistic for the Adults) and then hopefully Easterns in March.

[jazzpants]

I have a similar record to Debbie S on my Bronze Moves tests. The first time I took it it was sometime in Aug 2004 and I was nowhere near ready to pass. It was also the first time I tested with a brand new test chair and well, neither my coach or I knew that 1) we had to be there at the beginning of the session even though we have to wait a good 2.5 hrs to test, b/c it seems when I thought I got there 45 minutes early that I would have time to stretch, warmup, put on skating dress and skates and panick while waiting. NOPE! I walked into the rink and right into my WARM UP session!!! :evil: Apparently a lot of skaters dropped out last minute and I was supposed to be on ice right at that moment!!! Needless to say, both my primary coach and I were pissed at the new test chair then. GRRRRR!!! :evil:

Second time I tested was 10/05, I was there at the beginning of the test session THIS time. :evil: I took it under protest b/c my primary coach thought I was gonna pass it but my secondary coach didn't. Turns out that I was somewhere in between. Meaning... my secondary coach was right in saying that she didn't think I was ready, but what surprised her was how close I was to passing the test (or as doubletoe would define it, it was a "successful" test session compared to the last one. :D ) A few months later I had a critique done on my test session by the same that had me on both tries of the Bronze Moves test (who happens to be the club prez at the time.) Anyway, he thought I was very close to passing at that moment and encouraged me to consider testing in about 3 months time. Well, I was going to test June 2006 until I got into a bad accident in May 2006 with a kid that was at the time barely ready for FS. Couldn't bend my knees for at least 3 weeks and I still had to bandage the scar on the June test date. We ended up testing in August 2006 and I finally passed the 3rd time.

All the other tests I took (PreBronze FS, Pre-Prelim Moves and Bronze FS) I passed on the first try. And I don't plan on testing any time soon! Meaning: 1) my secondary coach will know to get a judge to critique me when she feels that I'm close to passing a test and 2) I am confident that the test will be a successful one and it's just a matter of taking the darn test and passing it. (For me, it's a "why waste money and my precious sleeping in Sat. mornings" thing.)

[jskater49]

I have a similar record to Debbie S on my Bronze Moves tests. The first time I took it it was sometime in Aug 2004 and I was nowhere near ready to pass. It was also the first time I tested with a brand new test chair and well, neither my coach or I knew that 1) we had to be

Well, having been helping out a test chair in a similar situation - lin our case, allthough it was the test chair who got yelled at (literally) by both the coach and the parent - it was not her fault - same thing, a skater dropped out -and a fast moving session and we were nearly an hour a head of schedule and one skater was rushed to his warm up and missed about a minute and a half and the test chair asked if we shouldn't give him more time and the referee said nope- that's plenty of time.

And then the coach wrote USFS and that person sent an email chiding the test chair. Which I thought was really unfair. I'm sorry but it is hard to get judges to come out here and no way are we going to argue with a judge. So she was either, piss off the judge or piss off the skater. And the USFS apparently does not support their volunteers.

Yea the kid had a retry. BUt I saw him skate and there was no way an extra minute warm up was going to save that test :roll: I'm still pissed off at the USFS guy when I think about it. He wasn't even there. The coach acted in a totally unprofessional manner (It was embarrassing) and this poor woman who has worked her ### off, trying to accomodate (Yea we changed the whole test schedule because this coach didn't want to come the next day when the kid was scheduled) everyone --it was her first time and she does what the JUDGE tells her to do and she gets chided by an official who wasn't even there. Oh dear, now you got me started....

j

[phoenix]

I'm pretty sure there is a rule (for both competitions & test sessions) that if they're running ahead by a certain amount of time (I want to say 45 minutes or an hour?), they have to either wait for a skater, or reschedule them in for a later time if they aren't there/ready.

I'm also pretty sure there a rules about length of warmup that must be given to the skaters, & that rule is pretty much written in granite.

Can anyone confirm/verify this?

--If I were the coach, I would have complained too. If you're running an hour ahead, you can give someone 90 more seconds to warm up.

[jskater49]

I'm pretty sure there is a rule (for both competitions & test sessions) that if they're running ahead by a certain amount of time (I want to say 45 minutes or an hour?), they have to either wait for a skater, or reschedule them in for a later time if they aren't there/ready.

I'm also pretty sure there a rules about length of warmup that must be given to the skaters, & that rule is pretty much written in granite.

Can anyone confirm/verify this?

--If I were the coach, I would have complained too. If you're running an hour ahead, you can give someone 90 more seconds to warm up.

Um, I'm not talking about complaining, I'm talking about a full-blown unprofessionally, childish hissy fit tantrum. The test chair is a VOLUNTEER, doing the best she could and deferred to the judge in charge. you can recited rules and regulations all you want, but when you have new test chair and the judge in charge says, "do this", she doesnt' deserve to be repremanded because she didn't contradict the judge.

You wouldn't have test sessions without volunteers and they are human and she did not deserve the way she was treated.


j

[jazzpants]

I have a hunch my primary coach complained... and unfortunately this wasn't the first time that particular test chair had complaints about him. He did become a better test chair though and I've learned my lesson about coming in right at the beginning and waiting for it. The other weird circumstance regard this first test session was that this was a special afternoon test session. When I tested the second and third time, it was at their regularly schedule Club Ice time and I wanted the warm up time that they have before the test session to just the ice beneath me before the test.

All water under the bridge -- the test chair and I are friendly now. He seemed to have relaxed around me when he realized what I was going thru that morning -- particularly after I got my test results! :bow: :bow: :bow:

And jskater49 - that test session ran ahead about 45 minutes and I'm thankful that I showed up early, primary coach was within 5 minutes of the rink in his car and a very kind fellow coach (then just a fellow skater) had his number and called him to "get his butt over here now!!!" :lol: I received no phone call or emails the night before that it was going to run that ahead... and he knew about it at least a day before, b/c the new schedule was printed.

[jskater49]

We told people to be ready an hour before hand. The skater was here but not ready. Next time we'll tell people to be ready two hours before. Frankly I think the coach should have been grateful to us that he could blame it on us and not have to answer to why he put someone out for a test that was no where near ready. :roll:

j

[Thin-Ice]

I'm pretty sure there is a rule (for both competitions & test sessions) that if they're running ahead by a certain amount of time (I want to say 45 minutes or an hour?), they have to either wait for a skater, or reschedule them in for a later time if they aren't there/ready.

I'm also pretty sure there a rules about length of warmup that must be given to the skaters, & that rule is pretty much written in granite.

Can anyone confirm/verify this?

--If I were the coach, I would have complained too. If you're running an hour ahead, you can give someone 90 more seconds to warm up.

There are "in the rulebook rules" for how long a warm-up is for a qualifying competition event. But for anything else, it's up to the referee (or in the case of tests, the Judge-In-Charge of that particular panel. That's why at non-quals we've had 2 minute, 3 minute, 4 minute, 5 minute and 6 minute warm-ups for Bronze ladies. I usually try to email the referee ahead of time for a competition. For tests, our test chair usually allows 5 minutes and it's printed on the schedule. But if we fall behind the schedule for some reason (lots of retries, the zamboni has "issues, one test goes incredibly slowly) the test chair can ask the JIC if the next warm-up can be cut by a minute. But she is also really good about telling the judges how far off-schedule we are. I do agree though, that if a test session is running an hour ahead of schedule, it wouldn't hurt to give the skater 90 more seconds to warm up.

The "how to cope if we're running ahead of schedule" is also left up to the chief referee at competitions and the JIC for tests. So the volunteer test chair DID do the right thing by asking the judge and following those directions. Sounds to me like the coach just needed to vent, and unfortunately, this poor new test chair was the unwarranted target of that steam.

[jazzpants]

We told people to be ready an hour before hand. The skater was here but not ready. Next time we'll tell people to be ready two hours before. Frankly I think the coach should have been grateful to us that he could blame it on us and not have to answer to why he put someone out for a test that was no where near ready. :roll:
I wasn't told ANYTHING before the test session. Trust me on this!!! No phone calls, no email. The only way I knew I was on the test schedule was a schedule posted on the board a week before and the same schedule was still there two days before. So it was quite a shock for me to find out two days later that the schedule has been changed and I'm now 45 minutes ahead. 8O

How long are your test sessions? Ours is at most 2 hours b/c of the rink's schedule, budgets, etc. OTOH, we're very good about having (now two) test sessions every month and even special test sessions in between if there is enough of a demand for one, if they can get a judge for that and if there's a deadline for a competition (like Sectionals or Nationals... both kiddie and adults!)

My skating club ROCKS!!! :bow:

[Isk8NYC]

I was rushed through my warmup before testing; I was the very last person to test (FS) and the only adult. Fortunately, I had come early and skated on the freestyle beforehand, so I was pretty much ready to go.

I gave the little one ahead of me a huge head start before the forward perimeter stroking. I think they expected me to be a slow skater. Not me! I'm fast. No control, but speed and power, I have them both!

[Debbie S]

When I helped out at test sessions, most would start running ahead b/c tests usually didn't take as long as the time allotted. The USFSA guide for test chairs gives the times that need to be allotted for each test, and test chairs have to follow them, but that's really an outside estimate that includes time for reskates, trips back to the coach after each move, etc. There were a few situations where the test was running so far ahead (like more than a half hour), the test chair chose to stop the test and take a break - so the judges got to go back to the judges' room to warm up and have coffee and such. Each of these times, there was a situation where either a skater wasn't ready or their coach hadn't arrived yet (we're talking 45 minutes ahead here). The judges didn't seem to mind the break.

I do know of a instance where a skater testing Pre-Bronze FS was asked to do her test on the warm-up. The test session was running a half hour behind or something like that, and the judge called her over when the warm-up was about halfway done, and asked if the she could just start the test now b/c they were behind. She hadn't even warmed up her spins yet, and there were all these Pre-Pre testers warming up around her as she was testing. She passed, but what a crazy thing for the judge to do (and notice how it was the adult that got asked to cut her warm-up short and not any of the kids?)! :roll:

[vesperholly]

When I tested Dec. 11, I arrived 45 minutes ahead of my scheduled time for my Silver FS test. Or so I thought - the test chair changed the schedule for no reason (flipped some moves with FS), but didn't tell anyone, only posted it online. I walked in and the other person who was supposed to warm up with me, a Junior MIF, was getting on the ice. 8O Needless to say, I was NOT on that warm up. I ended up having a warm up by myself about 15 minutes later.

[BatikatII]

Our test sessions are often crammed because they test moves first and they seem to take forever. Daughter has usually tested moves, plus elements, (that is individual elements jumps and spins without music) and a free test (i.e a programme to music with more or less the same or higher elements in it) on the same session and at the last one she had a warmup for her moves and elements tests but the only way they could fit in the free skating too was if she just went out and did it with no warm up. At least she had done the elements that day even if she hadn't run her program through and in fact passed no problem.

On my last moves test they were running behind and we had two judges and they started two of us at a time (one watched by each judge). This is not the usual procedure and they did ask us if it was Ok but basically it was that or not get to test that day so we did it even though I found it quite offputting at first. I passed though so all was well.

It's very rare for our test sessions to be ahead - not sure it's even happened. At comps I thought the rule was they could not be more than 30 mins ahead but in fact if all the skaters are in the building they can be as ahead as they like as was explained to me by a referee. So beware if you ever sign in and then leave the rink to go get food or something - they can assume you are there and will hear any announcements about being early!

[coskater64]

In general you as the skater must pay attention, it is not the test chairs fault if you don't pay attention. Our test form is very clear that the skater is responsible for their actions, they need to be on time and they maybe double paneled. Running 50+ tests in a single session is difficult and every person should thank their test chair as it is a challenging job and an unpaid one, same for all the judges who rountinely spend hours in a cold rink --unpaid. Our club always gives a thank you card to the judges.

[myste12]

Well, I don't have the most retries, but I just sent in my application to take my junior moves for the third time on Jan. 9th.

The first test was very clean, but I was slow and tentative, and my choctaws weren't on deep enough edges. The judges were very encouraging, and all wrote comments about how good my form was. They all said that I just needed a bit more speed and attack.

The second test was faster, but I had a few bobbles, and I knew when they didn't ask for a reskate that I'd blown it. I was really busy with school right before the test, so I hadn't been able to practice as much as I would have liked. It didn't help that I got nailed on my rockers by the judges when several coaches commented that I had done some of the best rocker patterns of the day. I'd have no problem with getting a retry if the standards were really high for everyone on this test, but two other skaters from my rink passed this test, and I know that my test was at least as good.

[saras]

In light of some of the conversation on the testing thread, I thought this might be interesting. Please list:
- what's the most times you've had to retry a test before passing?
- what were some of the reasons for the retries (nerves, too slow, missed elements, falls, etc)?
- what made it finally work for you (got stronger, conquered nerves, alochol)?


I can't remember if it was three times or four for my Gold MIF test - back when they had the novice move on it. The first time I was borderline and the retry was entirely fair, the second time the judges were particularly tough and I probably should have passed, the third time I skated well but not quite as well as the second time and I got a solid pass - well over the passing standard on each move.

So three times lol. Right, there was another session between the second and third but it was about an hour away at a rink I had never been to and I had horrid directions. I never found the rink.

But then, I passed the Int MIF test a month later, no retries, and the Novice MIF test last spring, no retries and over the passing average. I try to take Doubletoe's tactics to heart - the judge feedback is worthwhile no matter the test outcome, and I mostly just try to go out there and show them what I can do. If I get a retry, well really - it just means you can skate a little better - which is ALWAYS true - no matter the retry or pass outcome.

[vesperholly]

- what's the most times you've had to retry a test before passing?
I took the Foxtrot (Pre-Silver dance) four times before I passed.

- what were some of the reasons for the retries (nerves, too slow, missed elements, falls, etc)?
Most of the retries I've had were because of the test being put out a little too early.

- what made it finally work for you (got stronger, conquered nerves, alochol)?
Buckling down and really TRAINING the test helped a lot. When I took Novice and Junior moves, I used to do the entire test like a test session for several weeks preceeding the test - warm up for 5 minutes, then do the elements in order with very short breaks, and do a reskate for anything I missed. Also, I have used some sports psychology tricks to calm my nerves. I tell myself things like, "Just like in practice" and "If you don't test, you will fail 100% of the time" etc. I try to project a confident air, smile at the judges, etc. This is much easier on dance tests than moves - I call it my idiot grin.