How far might the average adult skater go?

[Tiara]

Hi Everyone!

I was just sitting here wondering. For an adult (20ish) starting skating, with some natural athletic ability and a drive to suceed.....How far (level wise) might they be able to go? I've heard that the average child who skates can usually achieve their axel and some doubles, and reach a pretty high level.

Is this also true for a person starting as an adult? How fast might the "average" adult progress through the levels? I am a total beginner (begining 2 level) and I am curious if a person like me can get to a highish level or if it takes a really special person to be able to learn to skate well. I want to hear some experiences about how the average excelleration through the levels goes.

Thanks for the input!! :yum:

[dbny]

IMO, if you do have some athletic ability, some flexibility, and not too much fear of falling or injury, you are starting young enough to become quite an accomplished skater with axels and doubles. Body type also matters: shorter and thinner makes freestyle easier. You also have to be lucky enough to avoid significant injury*, to have the money and to have the time to put in the required hours of practice and private lessons.


*Injuries that keep you from returning to skating when healed.

[Tiara]

Well, I am definelty athletic, but.....NOT very flexible. Since I have done alot of biking and weight training, my muscles have become pretty inflexible. Maybe with some training I can gain some flexibility and learn to do the splits and such ;). I am 5'7 and 115-120lbs so very thin for my height....but maybe alittle on the tall side.

Anyone know some good stretches or tactics to get my unflexible body flexible :giveup:

[Sessy]

I know a woman who used to do gymnastics and switched to skating at age 28. She's landing a consistent axel at 32 and she's got one double which she can do about 40% of the time in practice. She's taken only group lessons.

BTW for flexibility, the best thing to advise is: work with what your body gives you. I, personally, will *never* have the splits because already as a child, I could never stretch my legs and as an adult it's even worse. However, I do have a flexible back so I'm working on getting a biellmann through that. Other people are the opposite, their back doesn't bend at all but they'll get the splits in a matter of months.
So basically, work whith what your body gives you for maximum effect. And take ballet, that really helps. :)

This is the idea on a biellmann:
http://www.icesk8r.com/ruh/pics/mittan/20031428.jpg
Here's some good exercises to get the back flexible:
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/771/312806.JPG
http://www.abs-exercise-advice.com/images/cobra-group.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/67/10/22291067.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/98/18/22561898.jpg

[momsk8er]

I suggest a yoga class for flexibility. It has definitely helped me. And once you learn the poses, you can do them anywhere if you have a few extra minutes!

[doubletoe]

Well, I am definelty athletic, but.....NOT very flexible. Since I have done alot of biking and weight training, my muscles have become pretty inflexible. Maybe with some training I can gain some flexibility and learn to do the splits and such ;). I am 5'7 and 115-120lbs so very thin for my height....but maybe alittle on the tall side.

Anyone know some good stretches or tactics to get my unflexible body flexible :giveup:

I have done these stretches 4x a week for a year and I can now do a full 180-degree forward split on both sides. I am over 40 and never was able to do the splits when I was a kid or teenager, even though I took ballet. Consistency and proper form are the key. Most of these stretches came from my physical therapist (whom I went to for help after pulling a hamstring and experiencing tightness from the scar tissue).

STRETCHES for splits

1. Calf stretch (Do this before stretching hamstrings, since tight calves limit hamstring range): Calf stretch or heel drop stretch. (To see what these stretches are, see the website below)

2. Hamstring stretches:

(a) Assisted prone hamstring stretch (I use a belt)- twice on each side, for 30 seconds each time

(b) Seated hamstring stretch - also 30 seconds on each leg. I like to sit with my back against a wall so I can use my hands to push myself away from the wall and keep my lower back from rounding. Or you can grab something that is near your foot and pull while arching the lower back. It's more effective to use correct posture and not get as far down than to touch your nose to your leg by rounding your back and cheating. When you can hold your chest flat down against your thigh, your hamstring is flexible enough to do a split (but only if you also have a flexible hip flexor on the back leg)

3. Hip flexor stretch: (for the back leg on split)

Use a bench or the top of the landing of a staircase and do a half split, i.e., only the back leg extended straight back behind you on the bench or raised surface. The front will be bent at about a 90-degree angle with foot flat on the floor. Push your torso upright and lean back so you feel the stretch in the front of the hip on your back leg. Hold 30 seconds and repeat on other side.

At this website you can find photos of all of these stretches (except the hip flexor stretch):

http://www.velogirls.com/resources/publications/stretching101/stretching_lower.htm

Remember to stretch only warm muscles, either after exercising or after a hot bath/shower, and to ease into each stretch. Take your time but do them regularly and you will surprised at what you can do in 6 months! :)

[Tiara]

Ooooo, I'm definetly going to start those stretches! Thank you so much for such a great reply with so much information! Do you happen to have any stretches for back flexibility?

Tiara

[blackmanskating]

Hi Everyone!

I was just sitting here wondering. For an adult (20ish) starting skating, with some natural athletic ability and a drive to suceed.....How far (level wise) might they be able to go? I've heard that the average child who skates can usually achieve their axel and some doubles, and reach a pretty high level.

Is this also true for a person starting as an adult? How fast might the "average" adult progress through the levels? I am a total beginner (begining 2 level) and I am curious if a person like me can get to a highish level or if it takes a really special person to be able to learn to skate well. I want to hear some experiences about how the average excelleration through the levels goes.

Thanks for the input!! :yum:


Hi Tiara,

I think the answer to this question really depends on you. There are adult skaters out there doing triples. Personally, I've been skating for less than 2 years and I'm landing some of my doubles. I think dedication will take you further than raw talent alone. So don't think that you have to be a skating prodigy to get far. Just don't be too focused on getting to that high level as quickly as possible. Just enjoy the journey. You'll get there before you know it. Best wishes to you. ;)


BlackManSkating

[skaternum]

I think the answer to this question really depends on you. There are adult skaters out there doing triples.

I'm pretty sure most of the adults doing triples are NOT adult-onset skaters. They are adults who skated as children. I've never heard of an adult-onset skater landing a triple.

IMO, I'm more impressed with an adult-onset skater landing a clean single axel or double than I am with a former child skater landing triples. :bow:

[techskater]

How far you go depends on how much you put into it along with natural ability. It also depends on how much you are really willing to put into the basics. So many kids (and some adults) want to "get right to it" and I see them trying loops, flips, Lutzes, and Axels that can't stroke properly, have no clue what edge is what, what is meant by check, arm positions, etc and get frustrated when they finish near the bottom in a competition to someone who "can't do the same stuff they can!". The better your basics and the better your understanding of physics and body awareness, the faster you will progress...

Good luck

[blackmanskating]

I'm pretty sure most of the adults doing triples are NOT adult-onset skaters. They are adults who skated as children. I've never heard of an adult-onset skater landing a triple.



Maybe. . .Maybe not. Who knows??? Tiara might be the first!!!! :D


BlackManSkating

[jazzpants]

Maybe. . .Maybe not. Who knows??? Tiara might be the first!!!! :D Given what I've read of your posts, YOU might be the first, blackmanskating!!! :twisted: :P :twisted: :P :twisted: :lol: :bow:

[blackmanskating]

How far you go depends on how much you put into it along with natural ability. It also depends on how much you are really willing to put into the basics. So many kids (and some adults) want to "get right to it" and I see them trying loops, flips, Lutzes, and Axels that can't stroke properly, have no clue what edge is what, what is meant by check, arm positions, etc and get frustrated when they finish near the bottom in a competition to someone who "can't do the same stuff they can!". The better your basics and the better your understanding of physics and body awareness, the faster you will progress...

Good luck


I agree!!!! That's the truth!!!! Foundation is everything!!!


BlackManSkating

[blackmanskating]

Given what I've read of your posts, YOU might be the first, blackmanskating!!! :twisted: :P :twisted: :P :twisted: :lol: :bow:


Hahaha!!! LOL I just have a very sneaky coach who tricks my body into doing stuff on the ice I didn't think I was capable of. I can hardly wait for the day that I actually do an honest to goodness clean triple!!! In the meantime I'm going to get ready to test Bronze Moves and FS in January and keep working on my edges and flexibility. I want everything to look good.


BlackManSkating

[doubletoe]

Ooooo, I'm definetly going to start those stretches! Thank you so much for such a great reply with so much information!

You're welcome! By the way, when you get to the point where you can hold your chest flat to your thigh on the seated hamstring stretch and also get full range on the hip flexor stretch, try the splits on a ballet barre, not the floor. Doing splits on the floor is more likely to mis-align your hips and make you pull something (ask me how I pulled my *other* hamstring!). Always keep your hips squared, chest facing straight ahead and your back knee facing straight down, with legs lined up on a straight line. Hold your chest flat to the thigh of the front leg as you push back as far as you can, and only then raise your torso up and push back the rest of the way.

Do you happen to have any stretches for back flexibility?

My back is very stiff, so that is a challenge for me as well. However, I agree with Sessy that the "cobra" is a good one (see Sessy's diagram--it's the one where you lie chest down, keep the pelvis on the floor and push chest upright). But I started by just lying on my back on a big exercise ball. It's good to warm up with because it distributes the back bend evenly and does not compress vertebrae. As for bending the back forward instead of back, you'll get that automatically if you do the seated hamstring stretch.

As for your general question, if you are reasonably athletic, there is no reason you shouldn't eventually have an axel and several double jumps in your arsenal (I landed my first axel and first double at 38, and all I had was a year of ballet at 13, some basketball in high school and 2 years of weight training in my early 20's). From what I've seen, just about anyone can learn the single revolution jumps if they keep working at it, unless they have a physical disability or a fear of leaving the ice.

[Query]

I've heard that the average child who skates can usually achieve their axel and some doubles, and reach a pretty high level.

I shouldn't be a downer, but bear in mind that none of the above respondents are truly average.

If you are athletic, and you have drive, you are not average. You will do way better than the average person, and way, way better than me.

Your average kid never takes a lesson, comes once or twice with friends or family, and gives up. Even those who take lessons mostly stop at the first class, or earlier. See

http://skatingforums.com/showpost.php?p=343471&postcount=3

where dooobedooo says that 0.01% of people who start group lessons eventually get to axels and doubles, or equivalent dance level. The people you see doing freestyle moves on the ice are a very select group. You don't see most of the people who quit on the ice, nor are the coaches who make it typical people.

For those of us adults who keep at it for many years, I would guess the number who get to single jumps is a small minority. I've been at it about 8-10 years, averaging 10 or 15 hours a week, mostly with coaches, and can sometimes "cheat" a single, as a second jump after using a waltz jump to give me momentum, and have passed preliminary (i.e., baby level) ice dance on the adult track. If I worked very hard at it, I could probably pass pre-bronze dance. I tried Yoga and the like for about 20 years, but still can't touch my toes or do a spread eagle, and even my spirals are poor - but my muscles must be atypical, and naturally return to tensioned length faster than I can stretch them. (The people who become flexible as adults mostly accept that they must stretch once or twice a day, and ignore the warnings against stretching for long time periods.) But I wasn't very athletic to start with.

A very realistic goal is to look better than 99% of the people who come to skate in public sessions, and to be able to show off a little to your friends, or teach them a bit. If you make it through one series of group lessons, that should be easy. Just by skating simple strokes smoothly, people in public sessions ask me if I coach, and the same is probably true of the majority of people on this forum. If you take lessons, work hard at it, and want to, you can quite probably compete at a local adult level, or skate in a non-competitive synchro or ice theater production. You may be able to get world class or near world class at one or two particular moves, which you can show off with glee.

The accepted figure is that very few people who start learning some type of dance-like motions after the age of 7, at the very latest, will ever truly flow the same way as those who did, no matter how hard they work - their muscles, ligaments and bones just haven't grown together "right" for dance and allied arts. So if you didn't, you may have to accept that you will never look like an Olympic class dancer or skater, and that you are unlikely to make it as a professional coach. But I had one skating coach who started modern dance at about your age, then added skating, and looked very graceful by my standards.

You have a major advantage. Most people are not athletic. If you were one of the top few athletes out of a class of a few thousand high school students, you are already in the top 0.1%. At 20, you are young enough to adapt a good deal, as long as you don't have dreams of being a top level normal track athlete.

Your chances are much better if you have a serious background in some form of dance, martial arts or gymnastics. I used to skate on the same session with a public school gymnastics coach aged about 30. In a couple years or so, using only rented skates, he was doing double jumps. I've met several ex-ballet people who picked up skating pretty fast. I think those stories are fairly typical of serious athletes.

I once met a 30 or so year old practicing triple axels who'd been skating less than a year. She'd already done triple jumps on land while in the Canadian National Ballet, and was probably a world class athlete to begin with. Her jumps showed world class distance and height. Perhaps by her standards, triple axels on the ice was equivalent to becoming a couch potatoe. I don't consider her a typical adult learner, and that level may not be a realistic goal.

The real question is, do you want to try?

[coskater64]

Well -- I will chime in that natural athletic ability and a lot of tenacity play a part. It is lovely to be flexible and if you get to the gold level or higher in the US, you can reap the rewards of managing to garner higher levels with that flexibility. However, good skating skills, solid transitions, good jump and spin form can't be undervalued, a Beilman is lovely but it also needs to be centered and fast, one that is scratchy and slow won't make nearly the impact. Work on being a quality skater with balance in all areas of your skating, that will get you farthest. I routinely see people who can jump versus people who have skating quality, look at the gold men of the recent past...we used to have gold men doing double flip and lutzes, now they are limited to double loop, the emphasis falls to skating skills and a balanced skater. Some have moved up others have not, jumps don't win it unless you are also a good spinner and a balanced skater. Just something to think about.

Good luck with your skating.

coskater

[Rusty Blades]

Hahaha!!! LOL I just have a very sneaky coach who tricks my body into doing stuff on the ice I didn't think I was capable of.

I have one of those to!

I started skating at age 56 thinking it was going to be "recreational". The next thing I knew, I had my sights set on the (Canadian) Adult Championships - after 14 months on the ice, I made it to, last March! (And I did a local competition this fall.)

I never thought I would be able to jump but my sneaky coach set it up so well I was doing Waltz jumps and attempting Toe Loops before I realized I was jumping! And it hasn't even been a full 2 years yet.

How far can an adult go? I don't know but I am going to find out!

[jazzpants]

Hahaha!!! LOL I just have a very sneaky coach who tricks my body into doing stuff on the ice I didn't think I was capable of.Yeah, I have a few of those too... particular with secondary coach, who's very good with getting me over my fear of doing something by giving me something else that's even scarier than that. :lol:

where dooobedooo says that 0.01% of people who start group lessons eventually get to axels and doubles, or equivalent dance level. The people you see doing freestyle moves on the ice are a very select group. You don't see most of the people who quit on the ice, nor are the coaches who make it typical people.

For those of us adults who keep at it for many years, I would guess the number who get to single jumps is a small minority. WOW!!! We have a tons of adults who get to single jumps at my rink and maybe about half of those are getting thru the single jumps (up to lutz anyway.) Good handful of adults who are now on the cusp of learning axels too!!!

And me? I wasn't athletic to start with... just ask my old high school gym teachers who gave me average grades in their PE classes!!! But I did work very hard to stay healthy and got better thru the years so that by the time I started skating I was much healthier than in high school. I start at 31 and I'm now 40 and am just starting to do up to a single lutz now.

As for those axels and doubles... I was recently in a FS session with 4 adult skaters who witnessed me being hooked up to the harness as I was trying to relearn my flip to make it bigger and freaking out on the harness. (It was hard NOT to notice since my poor secondary coach was frustrated with me and was yelling for me to jump!!! Yes, it was one of THOSE lessons!!! 8O )

They all heard secondary coach yelling "You gotta get used to being on the harness! You'll be needing it a lot when you learn an axel!" When I gave this weak response (I think it was "Huh?"), she said "WHA!?!? You don't think that you would ever get to learning an axel in your lifetime!?!?!" Of course, all 4 of those other adult skaters all have axels and all chimed on me to confirmed that I really do need the harness to learn an axel.

The point is... if all those adults believe that someday I will land an axel and my secondary coach believes that too, I owe it to them to give it the 'ol college try for it. (BTW: I'm 40... but those adults are a few years older than I am...)

The real question is, do you want to try?Yup! Or in the old Clint Eastwood line: "Do 'ya feel lucky? Well, do 'ya... PUNK!?!?!" :twisted:

[TreSk8sAZ]

For those of us adults who keep at it for many years, I would guess the number who get to single jumps is a small minority... and have passed preliminary (i.e., baby level) ice dance on the adult track. If I worked very hard at it, I could probably pass pre-bronze dance.

Um, wow. That's a very skeptical view on adult skating. My area may be a minority (though I don't think it is) most of the adults who started skating as adults have their singles, at least through loop. I don't know of many that don't get at least that far. Some (though fewer) have gone much farther, trying (and landing) double axels.

There are quite a few adults that have been skating for only a handful of years that have through their silver, pre-gold or gold dances.

That being said, it truly depends on the person. Some people physically aren't made for the sport and won't go that far with it. Others don't have the drive, others the time or money. It depends on you and your ambitions. If you have some talent, are willing to learn and have the time to work on stuff, there's no reason you can't get at least an axel or a double (minus injuries, which I know all about right now! :roll: )

Good luck!

[Query]

WOW!!! We have a tons of adults who get to single jumps at my rink and maybe about half of those are getting thru the single jumps (up to lutz anyway.) Good handful of adults who are now on the cusp of learning axels too!!!

There are lots of kid and adult skaters here (near D.C.) who do doubles and triples, and many compete. I see kids doing triples and often adults doing doubles most times I go to certain rinks.

But she said average.

The fact that most of the people on your high school or college football team are incredibly athletic doesn't mean they are "average" people. Neither are the people you see doing single jumps on the ice.

Severe selection occurs at every skill level. Most quit.

E.g., most of those adults on the cusp of an axel won't get past it, and most who do will over-rotate or be unable to do it gracefully with appropriate height and distance. They'll do it on the floor, but their muscles will freeze in place with fear as they jump off the ice, and the legs will refuse to come together, let alone wrap. Ask any coach who teaches adults.

To get a better idea of average, watch an ISI pre-alpha group lesson series. Note how most of those who remain are awkward and slow. Since half or so drop out, that is the average level - and that is of the people who have the motivation to take lessons.

All the same, the o.p. should be encouraged. If she has the drive and the athletic talent, she can go far, far beyond average, and have fun.

[twokidsskatemom]

I will tell you we had a young guy start at age 18 when he moved here from down south.
He is 22/23 now and skating the west coast tour of Disneys HSM.Not bad at all.
:P

[doubletoe]

But she said average.

All the same, the o.p. should be encouraged. If she has the drive and the athletic talent, she can go far, far beyond average, and have fun.

I think you hit it on the nose there. Anyone who is serious about becoming a good skater is already beyond average due to the determination/motivation factor. You need to be motivated and dedicated, and those who are dedicated generally manage to get all of their single jumps even if they are just "average" in terms of athletic ability. For someone who is already reasonably athletic and only 20, it is very realistic to expect doubles with some time, effort and good instruction.

[cecealias]

I think all you have to do is look at the USFSA tests for adults and the number of entries at each test level competing to determine what is average. Keep in mind not all of these skaters started as adults.also some skated as children but are never high level even as adults. There probably is a good reason why Adult gold is the final adult test and why it earns an a gold medal instead of the senior standard track (which is what children testing would have to pass in order to earn a gold medal)

[Sessy]

I agree that the psychological factor is more of an issue in skating than anything else is. Both me and my skating friend I spoke of weren't very athletic before we began skating, not doing much of sports through our lives (although in the few years before starting to skate I was dancing) but when introduced to her for the first time, the coach said "Let me introduce you to somebody who is even crazier than you." We both seem to have a disturbing lack a fear of falling, which is *crucial* for skating. If you're afraid of falling, you're not going to go as fast.
Another skating friend was very athletic before skating, doing contortion (you should see her off-ice biellmann!) but she's afraid of falling and so she's not even really jumping even though she's 5 years younger and has been skating a little longer.

Although perhaps it is best to keep at least some fear of falling, seeing that both of us have already earned ourselves a fracture each in less than 2 years of skating. And while mine put me out all of this season, pretty much, hers will actually never recover (although it didn't really put her out)

[blackmanskating]

I agree that the psychological factor is more of an issue in skating than anything else is. Both me and my skating friend I spoke of weren't very athletic before we began skating, not doing much of sports through our lives (although in the few years before starting to skate I was dancing) but when introduced to her for the first time, the coach said "Let me introduce you to somebody who is even crazier than you." We both seem to have a disturbing lack a fear of falling, which is *crucial* for skating. If you're afraid of falling, you're not going to go as fast.


Exactly!!! Most people's limitations are mentally preconceived. Unless you have a physical ailment or disability, you can go as far you mentally believe you can. If you got a good coach who is experienced with working with adult skaters, s/he will probably push you past those beliefs.

I wasn't very athletic either. As a matter of fact I was very overweight!!! :oops:
I was just determined and I'm a little bit crazy. So I have no fear of falling on the ice. My coach tells me to try something, and I just listen and try to cross my ankles while airbourne. LOL If you are in relatively good shape, the only thing that holds you back is you.

Call me an optimist.

BlackManSkating

[Sessy]

Hey not an overly optimist. I too found the feet crossing easy (well at least on the loop, the other jumps I needed to add a loop behind to cross), it's mental. It's the keeping the rotational axis straight thing that's a problem for me (maybe because of lack of personal coaching though, since group class is the default here in the Netherlands).

[cecealias]

Fear is a BIG DEAL.

I've seen teenagers scared to jump simply because they're scared or embarrassed to fall.

And then I've seen adults in their 50s learn at an amazing pace simply because they have no fear of falling.

And then there are people who gossip and start to believe how scary or difficult skating can be past a specific level or element (e.g. axel) and end up psyching themselves or others around them out.

The bottom line is : Stay TRUE to yourself and know your limitations. Just because you didn't get far today doesn't mean you won't tomorrow. And don't listen to those naysayers.

[sk8tmum]

So many kids (and some adults) want to "get right to it" and I see them trying loops, flips, Lutzes, and Axels that can't stroke properly, have no clue what edge is what, what is meant by check, arm positions, etc and get frustrated when they finish near the bottom in a competition to someone who "can't do the same stuff they can!".

Amen, amen, amen! :bow: :bow: :bow:

[Tiara]

Wow you guys, you are all so inspiring! I am doing the group lesson thing since I am just pre-alpha, but I really feel like I'm not being challenged. I can do the moves required for my level with no problems. I dont want to ask my coach to move me up....but I wish he would. One day we had a sub coach and she came up to me and said she expected my coach to move me up next week because if i can do crossovers (what I was doing waiting for the other skaters to finish something else) than I shouldn't be in this class. Soooo....long story short, i haven't moved up yet. I just think the coach keeps people in the class the whole time regardless if it is too easy.

I am thinking of hiring a private coach just so that I can be challanged, and also so that they can recommend an appropriate group class level for me. I feel like after hearing all of your responses I would benefit from alittle one on one so I can excel at the level I think I can. Dont worry, I dont want to slack on the basics at all, but I feel pretty confident with the basic skating they teach in this class and want something new and exciting!!!

Tiara

[doubletoe]

Wow you guys, you are all so inspiring! I am doing the group lesson thing since I am just pre-alpha, but I really feel like I'm not being challenged. I can do the moves required for my level with no problems. I dont want to ask my coach to move me up....but I wish he would. One day we had a sub coach and she came up to me and said she expected my coach to move me up next week because if i can do crossovers (what I was doing waiting for the other skaters to finish something else) than I shouldn't be in this class. Soooo....long story short, i haven't moved up yet. I just think the coach keeps people in the class the whole time regardless if it is too easy.

I am thinking of hiring a private coach just so that I can be challanged, and also so that they can recommend an appropriate group class level for me. I feel like after hearing all of your responses I would benefit from alittle one on one so I can excel at the level I think I can. Dont worry, I dont want to slack on the basics at all, but I feel pretty confident with the basic skating they teach in this class and want something new and exciting!!!

Tiara

Even a few lessons with a private instructor will be very helpful. Before committing to a lesson, make sure the coach has a list of what skills needs to be mastered at each level so that he/she can help you fill in any gaps you might need to move up a level or two.

[twokidsskatemom]

Amen, amen, amen! :bow: :bow: :bow:

I agree !!!

[teresa]

I have my up and down days as an adult skater. Some days I feel like I can accomplish much and others I get stressed out and feel like I can't do anything right. I'm guessing this is pretty normal for anyone who skates. =-) My sad days are generally how hard it is to learn things as a true adult skater. Most of my peers skated as children and I get frusterated how much they know and how much I have to learn.

teresa

[twokidsskatemom]

I have my up and down days as an adult skater. Some days I feel like I can accomplish much and others I get stressed out and feel like I can't do anything right. I'm guessing this is pretty normal for anyone who skates. =-) My sad days are generally how hard it is to learn things as a true adult skater. Most of my peers skated as children and I get frusterated how much they know and how much I have to learn.

teresa
But please know its hard to learn skating period, no matter what the age. Even though most kids arent afraid of falling, it does take young skaters a long time as well.

[jazzpants]

Wow you guys, you are all so inspiring! I am doing the group lesson thing since I am just pre-alpha, but I really feel like I'm not being challenged. I can do the moves required for my level with no problems. I dont want to ask my coach to move me up....but I wish he would. One day we had a sub coach and she came up to me and said she expected my coach to move me up next week because if i can do crossovers (what I was doing waiting for the other skaters to finish something else) than I shouldn't be in this class. Soooo....long story short, i haven't moved up yet. I just think the coach keeps people in the class the whole time regardless if it is too easy.
Nah! Ask the coach if you can move up... and ask the coach who's in Beta to test you up. If you're not feeling like you're challenged enough and there is a group class that would challenge, I'm all for it.

I am thinking of hiring a private coach just so that I can be challanged, and also so that they can recommend an appropriate group class level for me. I feel like after hearing all of your responses I would benefit from alittle one on one so I can excel at the level I think I can. Dont worry, I dont want to slack on the basics at all, but I feel pretty confident with the basic skating they teach in this class and want something new and exciting!!!Tiara... I believe you when you say you won't slack off the basics... b/c a good coach won't let you slack off the basics if you TRY!!! They're EVILLE like that... :twisted: :lol:

If you can afford a private coach, by all means, try 15 minute lessons to start and if you feel you need more than gradually go up in lesson time. I did that while I was still in somewhere between Gamma and Delta and it got me to the point where group lessons were too easy back then for me. (I know one guy who was starting out as a Pre-Alpha like you but missed the schedule to get into a group class. He ended up taking lessons with my primary coach for a while until the next group class. When he finally was able to get into a group class, he ended up just sticking with private lessons. In two short years, he ended up becoming a better skater than ME!!! :twisted: )

[Sessy]

Well Tiara don't jump to conclusions... I do group class too but we have different instructors. There's one for which everything is always fine. If you CAN do crossovers, you should go to the next group, etc. She doesn't even seem to care very much if kids are flutzing instead of lutzing.
Then there's another who's so critical that she brings kids to tears, but I for one find her detailed critique very refreshing: I'm there to learn, and I won't learn if the coach tells me that everything's fine. So if you can do crossovers, she'll tell you to push off more, point your toes, mind your chin, arch your back, raise or drop one of your arms more, go deeper, etc. Truth is, with crossovers and edges, even when you can do them, you're FAR from "done" with them.
Then there's another coach who's also very critical but in a milder sort of way, but she's always critical about the things the other coach doesn't seem to notice. She's good weeding out purely technical errors that slip by others and she's interested in your tracings on edges: they seem to tell her a whole story, like an Indian with footsteps on the ground or something, LOL!

So before you declare that you should be moved up because you can do crossovers... Well it's not that I don't believe you. But your coach might feel that you can't practice certain basics too much. And I kind of agree with her. If you can do crossovers, try taking a circle a yard or 2 outside of everybody's path and keep up (you'll have to travel much faster), concentrate on pushing off, on looking up (not down on the ice), eliminating the stepping on the crossovers, on pointing your push off toe on the forward crossovers... You'll discover you can keep yourself quite occupied with that.

[liz_on_ice]

Then there's another who's so critical that she brings kids to tears, but I for one find her detailed critique very refreshing: I'm there to learn, and I won't learn if the coach tells me that everything's fine.

:lol: You remind me of the beginning of the outdoor season when several people were telling me how nice my edges were and how good my skating looked. Then my lesson started and my coach proceeded to tell me in no uncertain terms that I was too slow, not down in the ankles, bending at the waist, and generally looking really sloppy.

It was funny, but of course I do not pay her to say "Liz, you look lovely, don't change a thing." That is my husband's job, and he's good at it. :mrgreen:

[Query]

I'm no coach, but I have assisted as a volunteer, and taught a bit in another sport. It's incredibly hard to teach much seriously within a group lesson context. I've had two group lesson teachers in my life who were really good at teaching group lessons - one in school, one in sport. The vast majority just get frustrated and babysit.

Part of what you get with one private coach as opposed to many group coaches, or a succession of private coaches, is one style of motion.

The choice which private coach can be important, because of the style switching problem, and because skating organizations make it difficult for a coach to "steal" another's student. Watch them teach, watch their students. Do they have fun? Do they teach/learn the same way you do?

You could take privates from several teachers at first, making it clear beforehand that you are not committing to them, and are trying out a few. A coach who won't agree to that isn't confident they can hold onto students, perhaps with reason.

I think the biggest thing in entry level skating is to completely commit your balance to one foot, for many seconds, especially while skating on the outside edge, which involves an overbalance (compensated for by centrifugal force, BTW). Based on my volunteer teaching experience, most of the kids trying to learn crossovers, turns and spins had trouble because they still hadn't managed to commit their weight completely. Once you have that right, you can balance or place the other foot wherever you want. It's hard cuz they are afraid they will fall over and hurt themselves.

The obvious way to get over most of your fear of falling is to practice it. Then it will be easy (?) to commit all your weight to one foot, and go as fast as you want. www.geocities.com/grunes/falling.html has my ways of falling.

[cecealias]

The obvious way to get over most of your fear of falling is to practice it. Then it will be easy (?) to commit all your weight to one foot, and go as fast as you want. www.geocities.com/grunes/falling.html has my ways of falling.


Wow that's a great article on falling. For those dealing with FEAR of falling and/or jumping checkout " The "Evil" Adult" and "The Adult Athlete" .

Best statement I've heard : " Once you master it, falling is not a means of injury, but a means of preventing it. Falling safely is a basic component of the human design."

[Tiara]

Well Tiara don't jump to conclusions... I do group class too but we have different instructors. There's one for which everything is always fine. If you CAN do crossovers, you should go to the next group, etc. She doesn't even seem to care very much if kids are flutzing instead of lutzing.
Then there's another who's so critical that she brings kids to tears, but I for one find her detailed critique very refreshing: I'm there to learn, and I won't learn if the coach tells me that everything's fine. So if you can do crossovers, she'll tell you to push off more, point your toes, mind your chin, arch your back, raise or drop one of your arms more, go deeper, etc. Truth is, with crossovers and edges, even when you can do them, you're FAR from "done" with them.
Then there's another coach who's also very critical but in a milder sort of way, but she's always critical about the things the other coach doesn't seem to notice. She's good weeding out purely technical errors that slip by others and she's interested in your tracings on edges: they seem to tell her a whole story, like an Indian with footsteps on the ground or something, LOL!

So before you declare that you should be moved up because you can do crossovers... Well it's not that I don't believe you. But your coach might feel that you can't practice certain basics too much. And I kind of agree with her. If you can do crossovers, try taking a circle a yard or 2 outside of everybody's path and keep up (you'll have to travel much faster), concentrate on pushing off, on looking up (not down on the ice), eliminating the stepping on the crossovers, on pointing your push off toe on the forward crossovers... You'll discover you can keep yourself quite occupied with that.


Hi Sessy,
In the class that I am in right now, we are only doing forward and backwards swivels, backwards wiggles, and skating on one foot for like 1 second.

The class i am in doesn't teach ANYTHING else. I can do all of the skills taught in this class well. I am spending my time sitting waiting for everyone to finish backwards swizzles ect. I want a coach who will correct my each and every error. I want to be challenged and have a class that will teach me something new that I dont already know how to do, or help me refine what I can do (crossovers for instance...they can use ALOT of work, and I want a class that actually teaches crossovers so i can spend 8 weeks improving on that). KWIM? Its not that I think if I can do crossovers I should be moved up, its that what my class is doing is so elementary my coach cant offer me any tips for improvment. That is why I want a private coach, so that they can knit-pick my faults and really help me to improve rather than just maintain.

[Skittl1321]

Tiara- can you tell your instructor that?

Say "I feel like I have the basic idea of this move, and I'd really like it if you can be more picky in what you expect from me. I'd really like more corrections"

Some instructors don't want to discourage new skaters- it's really a fine line to cross.

[Tiara]

Jessi, thats a great suggestion! I will ask my instructor at the next lesson! :)

tiara

[Sessy]

I really do know how you feel, been there myself - but the result of that has been that every time we have a guest coach or I take a class at mom's skating club or just skate at my rink, the first thing that happens is that I get compliments on my 3-turns cuz I've done those enough to make me nauseous. Try swizzles with more power and speed and see if it's still easy, try to get a feel for how the skate digs, rips into the ice without scratching with the toepicks. But that's just a patch, I DO agree that you should really discuss this with your coach. Private lessons are always a good idea too if you can afford them.

Unrelated (kinda), there's even professional skaters who put swizzles in their programmes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C024mPXU76Y
time index 00:21 and 1:32 among others.

[Rob Dean]

Sorry to be coming late into this discussion, but there are a couple of things I can't resist adding. Query's comments about "average" have some merit...but, as pointed out, average is just what you aren't if you stick with it, do your practices regularly, take lessons, get private coaching and so forth.

...crossovers for instance...they can use ALOT of work, and I want a class that actually teaches crossovers so i can spend 8 weeks improving on that...

8 weeks? :) My crossovers are *vastly* better (F&B) than they were when I passed Basic 4 and Basic 5 (USFSA LTS levels), but that doesn't keep my coach from continuing to go back and add new aspects for me to work on. (I've been working toward the adult bronze moves test since I passed the pre-bronze test in August; those of you who have passed it or are working on it know that most of the patterns on it require BXOs--and the technique has to be good to get down the length of the rink in 4 crossovers.) We spent most of Friday's lesson on that, again...

Anyway, just as an idea of what's possible, I'll say that I'm 46 and have been skating seriously (preparing for tests) for about two years, with a year's worth of group lessons and basic skills coaching before that, and a 20 year gap since I'd last put skates on before *that*. I have the advantage of having a skating son, so I get to spend a fair amount of time at the rink, usually skating four days a week (to his five) for an hour and a half or so, with an hour of instruction scattered through the week. I am doing dance, and have passed the first two levels of testing (six dances) and the first moves test. I'm working on two of the three dances of the bronze level at the moment as well as the second moves test. That's the internal skating benefit, as it were--external to skating, it's also left me 50 pounds lighter and vastly more fit than I was a few years ago. I've no desire to return to average in that respect!

Keep at it, and welcome to the AOSS crowd. :)

Rob