Arakawa 3-3-3 combo

[kayskate]

At Olys practice:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SauJKulmYlU (around 1:30)
Announcer says she will not do in competition b/c it would use up her jump allowance for the program. IMO, this should be allowed as a separate type of combo. It is gorgeous

Practice on Japanese TV:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dx3RluvzPmU

A friend told me about this. I have never seen it. Enjoy!

Kay

[SynchroSk8r114]

Yep, "totally sick and twisted." Love it! :lol:

[blackmanskating]

That is absolutely insane!!!!:bow: I am not worthy!! The technique is flawless man!!!


BlackManSkating

[looplover]

That is totally amazing. I don't even get how people can do triples at all, I have a hard enough time getting any height on a single. This is like some wild command of physics, for sure.

[Sessy]

I really like the way she puts the triple loop afterwards, in a Bob Ross kind of way. "There's a happy little toeloop... And I think there's a loop asking to be right.... Here. Oh, let's make it a triple. Riiiight... Here. Nice little curve, see that? It's just sitting there, being a happy little triple..."

[kayskate]

I showed this vid to my DH. Shizuka has such incredible flow out of the 3sal into the 3toe that he did not even think the first jump was part of the combo. I thought that was really interesting. Her combo is made of such powerful jumps w such speed and flow that it does not even look like the combos the other women are doing.

Kay

[doubletoe]

I really like the way she puts the triple loop afterwards, in a Bob Ross kind of way. "There's a happy little toeloop... And I think there's a loop asking to be right.... Here. Oh, let's make it a triple. Riiiight... Here. Nice little curve, see that? It's just sitting there, being a happy little triple..."

ROFLMAO!! :lol:

[stardust skies]

The third triple is cheated so badly at takeoff (over half a turn) that there is no way it would be ratified now. That's pretty glaring. It's pretty easy to do a 3/3/3 at that level of skating if you basically spin into the third triple to the point that it's a double.

And I think Arakawa has good jump technique. But she was known for sometimes cheating her triples, and this is definitely no exception.

[Amandaskategirl]

Very coo! :bow:

[doubletoe]

The third triple is cheated so badly at takeoff (over half a turn) that there is no way it would be ratified now. That's pretty glaring. It's pretty easy to do a 3/3/3 at that level of skating if you basically spin into the third triple to the point that it's a double.

And I think Arakawa has good jump technique. But she was known for sometimes cheating her triples, and this is definitely no exception.

Can you provide an example of any triple loop ever being downgraded in competition due to pre-rotation on the takeoff rather than under-rotation on the landing? I have personally never seen it happen. Also, it does not look like Shizuka's foot turns forward before takeoff, so the jump took off backward and should be ratified as long as it is landed backward.
The only jump that is normally downgraded based on a cheated takeoff is the toeloop, and it is downgraded when the picking foot turns forward before takeoff.

[blackmanskating]

The third triple is cheated so badly at takeoff (over half a turn) that there is no way it would be ratified now. That's pretty glaring. It's pretty easy to do a 3/3/3 at that level of skating if you basically spin into the third triple to the point that it's a double.

And I think Arakawa has good jump technique. But she was known for sometimes cheating her triples, and this is definitely no exception.

If you look at any loop jump it actually is supposed to take off almost forward. a single loop is actually similar to a waltz jump with a back 3 in front of it. Sounds like a salchow description huh?? As with all edge jumps, rotation is created on the ice first and then transferred to the air.

The Triple loop is not cheated. The only triple I've seen arakawa cheat is a triple lutz-triple toe. She sometimes underrotates the toe. Those jumps were executed very well.


BlackManSkating

[wasabi]

The Triple loop is not cheated. The only triple I've seen arakawa cheat is a triple lutz-triple toe. She sometimes underrotates the toe. Those jumps were executed very well.

Actually, both the toe and loop are cheated on the landing (the loop substantially more so) -- you can see it from how she hooks the landing. She cheats on her toe, though, and the jump also curves a bit, making it really difficult to tell how cheated it is without slow motion. Of course, whether or not jumps get ratified also depends on where the tech. specialist is sitting. And any skater can tell you that while it may not be very difficult to cheat on your blade at no speed, the cheat on the loop -- especially with that kind of speed coming out of it -- is definitely not easy or anywhere near a double.

More impressive to me is this (the second program):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7glxoujf8k
The second/third jumps of the combinations and the triple axel are all pretty cheated, but still -- she was 12!

[Morgail]

I really like the way she puts the triple loop afterwards, in a Bob Ross kind of way. "There's a happy little toeloop... And I think there's a loop asking to be right.... Here. Oh, let's make it a triple. Riiiight... Here. Nice little curve, see that? It's just sitting there, being a happy little triple..."

LOL!! :D If Bob Ross were a figure skater...

[kayskate]

More impressive to me is this (the second program):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7glxoujf8k
The second/third jumps of the combinations and the triple axel are all pretty cheated, but still -- she was 12!

Also looks like the 3lutz was a flutz, but she is amazing at 12. How many 12 yr olds can even attempt those skills?

Kay

[techskater]

Also looks like the 3lutz was a flutz, but she is amazing at 12. How many 12 yr olds can even attempt those skills?

Kay

No, not a flutz, but the flip was lipped

[wasabi]

No, not a flutz, but the flip was lipped

No, it was a flutz. And the flip did take-off of the inside edge, which is what matters. A lot of skaters do a kind of s-curve on the takeoff (outside to inside change of edge), which is bad technique, but not a lip.

[blackmanskating]

No, it was a flutz. And the flip did take-off of the inside edge, which is what matters. A lot of skaters do a kind of s-curve on the takeoff (outside to inside change of edge), which is bad technique, but not a lip.


I agree with Techskater. Her Flip is constantly lipped. Her Lutz looked solid to me. I think the Lutz is so ingrained in her body that she can't do a flip correctly. If you wanna see a flutz, look at Mao Asada.


BlackManSkating

[wasabi]

If you wanna see a flutz, look at Mao Asada.

Ummm...that was Mao Asada. Or at least, I was talking about the second video.

[techskater]

Ummm...that was Mao Asada. Or at least, I was talking about the second video.

I was speaking about Arakawa

[stardust skies]

Can you provide an example of any triple loop ever being downgraded in competition due to pre-rotation on the takeoff rather than under-rotation on the landing? I have personally never seen it happen.

No, because they've only been implementing their downgrades heavily for the past year, which is why nobody is trying these types of combos anymore- they'll almost ALWAYS get downgraded, so there's no point in trying. The system is changing, trying to ask people to back up their opinions with precedents at this point is useless, as things pretty much vary from competition to competition. Only thing that doesn't vary is the jump itself, and whether it is in fact clean, or not. What happens with the judging is separate.

Edge jumps might have more wiggle room, but they will get downgraded too nowadays, or at least that's what I think.

[doubletoe]

No, because they've only been implementing their downgrades heavily for the past year, which is why nobody is trying these types of combos anymore- they'll almost ALWAYS get downgraded, so there's no point in trying. The system is changing, trying to ask people to back up their opinions with precedents at this point is useless, as things pretty much vary from competition to competition. Only thing that doesn't vary is the jump itself, and whether it is in fact clean, or not. What happens with the judging is separate.

Edge jumps might have more wiggle room, but they will get downgraded too nowadays, or at least that's what I think.

As far as I know, the only pre-rotation guidelines for the technical specialists still only call for a downgrade when there is a clear forward takeoff on any jump other than an axel, but you don't really see many clear forward takeoffs on loop jumps, even when they are done as the second jump in combination, KWIM?

[ibreakhearts66]

is it just me, or did the 3loop at the end of the combo look OVERrotated? if so, that's just nuts

[techskater]

Just you, it was definitely short.