How well do your current boots fit; Custom? Modified?

[Query]

Let's try this again without the duplicated options. Sorry for my mistake.

How well do your current boots fit?

Were they stock or custom?

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?

Details would be nice, e.g.:

I have custom Klingbeil Ice Dance Boots. They have had a lot of mods by many technicians, including some of the best, like Don Klingbeil himself, and by myself as well. They fit poorly, still hurt, sometimes a lot (if it has been more than a week since I last punched them out.) I blame some of it on the fitter, some on the dificulty of making thick hand-made leather boots fit well.

So I am taking the last option.

[blackmanskating]

My boots are Jackson Elite Plus stock. My boots fit great after 2 heat moldings. The only pain I experienced was a Canada tag attached to the inside of the boot at the heel. Well it rubbed my heel raw before I could cut the tag out. After that, smooth sailing.



BlackManSkating

[Isk8NYC]

How well do your current boots fit?
They've always fit well, right boot's become loose since I lost weight.
In one foot? I dunno - it is my landing foot and I've been doing twizzles and backspins galore.
I had them tweaked two weeks ago in the right heel and they're better.

Were they stock or custom? Custom Klingbeil

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain? No pain, regardless of modifications.

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
Don Klingbeil added modified insoles (to match my orthotics) and tongue-hooks because of it slipping to one side.
(Happens to me with every skate, even rollerblades.)

This is my third pair of Klingbeil's and I've never had real pain, except when they started breaking down or when I had gained weight. (Not the skates fault. lol)

There's no option for "No Pain, Before or After Mods", so I added the category of "Other" to your poll.

[SynchroSk8r114]

How well do your current boots fit?
My custom lightweight Harlicks seriously fit like a glove...well, more like slippers! They are sooo comfortable. I'd rather wear them than shoes. :D

Were they stock or custom?
My skates are custom lightweight Harlicks. I need customs because I have very narrow feet: a AAAA front with a AA heel. :halo:

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?
No pain from actually breaking them in. I was landing axels in them the first day I skated in them. They were by far the easiest pair for me to break in. I think because they are lightweight and made from the synthetic leather with some kind of lightweight heel.

I did, however, have a bit of pain on my pinkie toes. I tried to push through it for the first few weeks thinking that it was simply from trying to break the skates in, you know...typical blisters and all. But after a few weeks, my feet were killing me, so I went back to the skate shop to have the rest of my screws put in and I also had both my pinkie toe (bone area) punched out and they've been fine ever since!

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
I had them modified by the pro at the skate shop I bought them at. I figured that I'd need something modified - they almost felt too comfortable, hahaha! But all that was done was the pinkie toe bones were punched and they felt amazing! :bow:

[doubletoe]

My stock SP Teris fit pretty well, but since they are B ball A heel and I really need a B+ ball (half way between B and C width), they can be a little uncomfortable in the widest part of the foot when they have been in a cold place (which makes them stiffen up).

[Rusty Blades]

jackson ProFlex semi-custom, so-so fit. The fitter ALWAYS measures too tight. They need to be bumped in one more place but nobody has the press to reach that spot.

[icedancer2]

Stock SP Teri Dance Boot with combination width (one foot A, the other foot B) and combination length (8 1/2 on one foot and 9 on the other) - heat molding and two punch-outs and they are basically comfy.

But the smaller one is actually a little big in the heel but if I wear the right socks, have the right insert (a little wedgie thingy plus a Dr. Scholl's pad) and I've been skating on them for more than 10 minutes they are fine.

EXCEPT that they are two stiff and I doubt that they will ever really break in. Also even though they are different lengths we got the same size blade on both feet and I've always felt like the blade was too short in the bigger boot. With dance blades that can really make a difference because of the inherent shortness of the blades.

This all being said, the next time I get boots, if ever, I am going to get customs, make them actual LEATHER (because with the heat molding I don't think they are actually leather through and through although I don't want to take them apart to see what's really in there) and I will probably not get a dance blade - thinking maybe a Synchro blade might be just a tad bit longer with just a tad more picks.

[emkayy]

How well do your current boots fit? Too big in the heel, a little tight in the ball, my feet feel foreign in them!

Were they stock or custom? Custom Klingbeils

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain? depends on the day, but it varies between some pain and a lot of pain

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)? They've been punched out numerous places, but I haven't yet sent them back to Klingbeil (hopefully next week)

I ordered them in July, got them in August. When I first put them on they felt strange, but I didn't know it shouldn't be that way (only had one pair of skates previous to this.) Fast-forward to now, I'm having shooting pain in the middle of my leg which coach associates with my prior ankle bone pain spreading up my leg... which came in the first place after I got these skates. So I bought some used Harlicks, they should be here Wednesday, then I'm sending the Klingbeils back to NY with a list of things wrong with them!

[Sessy]

After 3 moldings and multiple dent-outs, my standard Graf Edmontons fit perfectly, except for 2 little bones which I use bunga pads for. I really like the boots.

[ibreakhearts66]

i have custom klingbeils and i am fairly happy with them. i'm only having a few issues-slipping tongues (they slip DOWN and not to the side--really obnoxious! i need to get hooks put in but haven't had time) allergic reaction to something in the tongues, and just a little too narrow in the midfoot area. i took the insole out of my right boot which i think gave me just enough room.

most of the pain in my feet comes from having my toes crushed by the slipping tongues or having the too narrow boots put pressure right where the peroneal tendon connects to the 5th metatarsal. Before I figured out how to tie my skates right, I had to relace around 5 times a session because of the tendon pain, but i'm not really having those issues anymore. now just to get the tongues fixed!
--------------------------------------
i guess i'll also talk about my old skates. i had custom harlicks and was pretty happy with them. i had them about 4 years (about 1.5 years actually skating in them). After I got back from my ankle surgery they were just too broken down to support my ankle. The biggest problem I had was that the arches in the orthotic were too high. I have ridiculously high arches, but these were made just a little too high so it irritated the peroneal tendon (just like my current skates do). they were also a little too narrow in the same spot, causing the burning tendon pain. Never got around to having them punched out :roll:

[jenlyon60]

How well do your current boots fit?

They fit very nicely. The only problem I have is related to my feet changing somewhat within the past year (middle age) plus I'm only skating once a week due to knee rehab issues. (Note, the boots are 3 years old).

[b]Were they stock or custom?[\b]

Custom Klingbeils, with dance notch and cut down in back for dance

[b]Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?[\b]

I had no pain to speak of, during the break-in process. They were stiff (like new boots are) and I had the typical new boot issues (tying the laces, etc). On this pair I went to a higher heel and that caused issues for a couple days.

This is my 3rd pair of Klingbeils and I've had next to no problems breaking in any of them. I reckon I have a foot that Klingbeils are good for.

[b]Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?[\b]

Nope. No changes unless you count that I still don't use the top set of hooks.

[Bill_S]

How well do your current boots fit?
They are about 1/2 size too big. The blade is rolling around underneath on some moves.

The boots are Riedell 375 Gold Stars, and in the size I've always purchased - 7-1/2 - but somehow this pair is larger (and definitely softer) than the older pair. Even with the laces REALLY tight, these boots fit like my older Gold Stars with the laces tied too loose.

Were they stock or custom?
Stock

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?
No pain whatsoever! I liked the comfort of these, but I hope the softness isn't contributing to my problems.

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
No modification at all. No punch-outs, etc.

Details would be nice, e.g.:
I'm thinking about buying another pair but getting 1/2 size smaller, even though these are only 2 months old. I might also consider a step up from the Gold Star to the HLS 1500 if there's additional stiffness.

These boots are WAY different than my older pair of Gold Stars. Softer, lower, have a flex-notch, back scalloped for better toe point. There are a lot of things to love in the new design, but foremost I need support for my weight. I hope just getting a smaller size fixes that.

[wasabi]

How well do your current boots fit?
Now they fit quite well. This is my fifth pair of Klingbeils, and I never had any trouble breaking them in before this pair. I tore off a good chunk of skin over my arch with these ones, but I attribute that more to me being an idiot, forgetting I was wearing new boots, and skating all out for a week while ignoring the pain. Once I put orthodics in them, they were fine.

Were they stock or custom? Custom Klingbeil

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain? No pain now, or with any of the ones before them.

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
I have modified Superfeet added first. That was a complete and utter disaster. Now I have custom orthodics in (had them done by a trainer) and they're perfect.

[Kim to the Max]

How well do your current boots fit?
Now that I've been skating in them regularly for a while, they fit wonderfully :) Before that, because the leather was stiff from sitting around my apartment for 9 years, they weren't comfortable, but not entirely uncomfortable. I was able to skate for about 15 minutes without extreme pain, now, I'm on the ice for 2 hours or so at a time without relacing.

Were they stock or custom?
Stock Harlick Finalists purchased the summer of 1999 :) The first pair of skates I bought for myself...and then I promptly stopped skating!

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?
No pain :) Unless I decide to tie them too tight and cut off the circulation in my feet, but that's a user error, not a design issue....

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
When I first started skating again (more than once every 6 months), I had the toe box punched out because the Harlick toebox is very small, and I knew that because I had gained A LOT of weight since I bought them (to the tune of 40-50lbs...the freshman 15 and thensome :( ...but some of that weight is already coming off!), that my feet had probably gotten a bit wider.

[TreSk8sAZ]

How well do your current boots fit?
Poorly- too long, too wide, heel lock doesn't work, my foot slips everywhere. I actually had to send them back, and had to pay for entirely new boots (which I've been waiting on for over 2 months :frus: ). They also got really soft in just a couple months.

Were they stock or custom?
Custom Klingbeils

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?
TONS of pain. I've had huge blisters on my heels, my ankles were cut completely open and became infected, because of the improper fit while I was breaking them in I fell badly and tore 4 things in my knee which required surgery.

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
I sent them back to get fixed, and it would have been really expensive to fix everything, so I was forced to get new boots as it wasn't that much of a price difference, and there was no guarantee that the repairs would have worked anyway.

[mikawendy]

I put other because I have a stock Jackson 2700 boot with a split last--one size wider in the toes and one size narrower in the heels (C/AA). I had difficulty at first getting the lacing in the forefoot tight enough to where my feet weren't moving inside the boot, but it's pretty OK now. I couldn't have gone with the standard widths because a B ball is too tight, and a C ball has too loose of a heel for me.

One difficulty was that I switched to skating barefoot in the past year or so, and that means there's slightly more room in the boot, so I have to make sure I'm laced very well, or I find myself in a lesson and feeling a littly "slidy" inside my boot. Sometimes I'll wear the little nylon footies that are designed to be worn under dress shoes (no ankle/forefoot part), but I really prefer completely barefoot, as I can feel the ice better.

The boots before this were stock boots (same brand/model), and toward the end of the time that I was in them, they were uncomfortable in the toes, even when the ball had been punched out as much as it could be.

[Morgail]

How well do your current boots fit?
Very well - much better than my previous boots!

Were they stock or custom?

They are stock (SPTeri Super Teri)

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?
Just a little pain in my arches (I have flat feet) for the first 5-15 minutes I skate. Then it goes away. I also have little bumps on my little toes from where they rub against the side of the boot (an area I will get punched out in my next pair of boots, unless I go with the ProFlex, that is).


Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
They were heat molded when I bought them, and the shop also punched out the ankle areas for me. When I was breaking them in, I would heat them with a hair dryer to help mold them more. I also took out one of the sole liners to make more room for my non-existent arches. I bought bunga ankle sleeves too.

Other details:
I love my boots! They fit my feet very well. They are a split width, which has really made a difference. My old boots (ancient Riedell Gold Stars) slipped up and down my heels. I could probably stand to go get some arch supports, but I haven't. The arch pain goes away after a bit of skating, so I deal with it. The only thing that I wished my boots had is a flex notch - I think it would make bending my ankles a little easier.

[kayskate]

Custom Harlicks. 3rd pair from this pattern which was made from a mold of my foot. First 2 pairs I had no pain or even a blister. They were ready to wear right out of the box. This last pair gave a few blisters, but I was not skating as often when I broke them in. I wore a silicone ankle sleeve for a couple of months until they broke in. They are just perfect now. No complaints.

Kay

[Mrs Redboots]

How well do your current boots fit?
Very well indeed - they are extremely comfortable.

Were they stock or custom?
Stock - Gam 750s, blissy!

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?
No pain.

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
I did take them back to the fitter to have the bunion area on my left boot punched out, which he duly did, and since then they've been wonderful - I have been able to discard the bunion pad I wore every session for two years.... mostly they didn't hurt before, but they did if I didn't wear the pad, and they did whenever I was skating in the Alps, for some strange reason. Anyway, they don't now.

[Skate@Delaware]

I marked "other" as I am in split-sizing which is not really custom but not stock either (D ball/AAA heel). I finally have a boot that fits beautifully, they would be heaven except for my bunion on my left foot.

I skate in Jackson Elites. They were heat-molded when I first got them. A bit tough to break in but after 3 months of skating (in 80+ degree temps on synthetic ice) they finally did.

[Query]

ANALYSIS and CONCLUSIONS from data to date:

We must ignore "Other", because it isn't specific enough to be interpreted (there is no way to figure out who responded so, with one exception).

In addition, I forgot to ask obvious questions, like did poorly fitting boots used to fit, prior to childhood growth.

Also, I can not answer whether there is a sampling bias introduced by who does or does not reply, or whether the results are substantially affected by people who just kept buying boots until something happened to work.

However, we've got a few conclusions pretty clear:

1. Before modification, significantly less than half of people are completely happy (imprecisely defined by No Pain) with the boots as is, whether or not they are custom. This is very consistent with discussions I've had with other adult skaters.

2. Custom boots are substantially more likely to fit without pain, whether or not we include modified boots. This does surprise me a lot, but is quite re-assuring. I conclude that custom boot people who are unhappy are more likely to complain, which introduces a sampling bias in my in-person discussions.

3. Many of the things people mention having trouble with are easily solved just by putting tape under the insole. For example, boots that are a little too loose in general, or have an incorrect amount of arch support can be handled by thickening or reshaping the insole this way, though in the case of arch support, if you have to reduce the height of the arch by adding tape everywhere else, that might make the boot too tight.

The more serious problems may or may not be solvable, and many such solutions are quite temporary, and will only last a few days or weeks. I'll recap the techniques I mostly placed in

http://www.geocities.com/grunes/falling.html#bootmod

A good boot technician (I favor Don Giese in Bowie, MD for major league boot modification, because he is the only person I know outside factories who regularly rebuilds new and used skating boots) can expand widths of any part of leather boots, and the height of the toe box, to some extant, though if the modification is major, the leather will naturally tend to return to original form.

You can also expand the boots a little with the wet sock method (soak your socks in water, put on boots laced very tight, and skate). (Don Giese says this is awful, and that I should use Lexol or other stretching oil instead, because water stiffens and cracks leather, but so far I find water works better.) Again, though, the leather will eventually tend to return to form.

You can punch out pain and pressure points - again, the leather will eventually tend to return to form. You can buy tools like ball and ring plyers to keep doing it yourself, but it is a nuisance to redo every few days, and the amount you can change boots is quite limited in any event. In my case the location of the metal lace hooks also tend to prevent sufficient modification.

Heat molding is possible on all leather boots - but some can't take high enough temperatures to make a good long-term fit (e.g., Klingbeils aren't supposed to be molded over 140, and they don't advertise even that). In my case, I had Don Giese try to heat mold my Klingbeils, but they seem to have returned mostly to original form again.

You can soften boots a little several ways: lots of Lexol or similar oil, repeated heat molding (which breaks down boots), lots of skating (but mine have had roughly 6 years at 10-14 hours/week without any sign of the breaking down, darn it), and heating the boots up, by using a ski-boot dryer, each time before skating (don't go very hot, if you get over maybe 110 or something like that, it accelerates the tendency of the boots to return to original form and eliminates modifications). Needless to say, heat is temporary.

I have tried all these things and more (like going back to the factory) on my misfit custom Klingbeils, but they still hurt. I've been to some of the best boot technicians on the U.S. east coast to try, including Don Klingbeil (the boot maker) himself. But it is pleasing to see that most people have had better results than me.

4. We don't have enough data here to draw conclusions about relative merits of different brands and types. I loved SynchroSk8r114's comment that her [his?] custom lightweight Harlicks are more comforable than shoes, but that is a sample size of one.There were quite a few people who have had problems with custom Klingbeils, but that may be because there are quite a few people who buy custom Klingbeils. No other brand has enough mentions to be statistically significant. And there are also a fair number of people quite happy with them.

[dbny]

Something else to consider is that a lot of adult skaters buy custom Klingbeils, and adult feet are harder to please. The older you get, the more difficult it is to put up with the constriction necessary in a figure skating boot. I'm of the opinion that it's entirely possible, that after a certain age, skates are going to hurt if you wear them too long, and the duration of "too long" becomes shorter with age. I also think that just standing around in your skates, doing the kinds of repetitive moves used in teaching basic skills is more stressful on feet than more advanced and varied skating is. That's pure opinion based on personal experience. I know one other skater/coach who is less than half my age who agrees with that, which is greatly reassuring to me.

How well do your current boots fit?
Beautifully. Some looseness in R heel, not really a problem.

Were they stock or custom?
Custom Klingbeils

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?
No pain except when I have to wear them for more than 3 hours without a break. Still not too bad.

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
Don Klingbeil worked on the L inside ankle area, where I was having a lot of pain after wearing the boots for many hours, and on the R outside just above little toe, for the same reason.

[Sessy]

DBNY I noticed something similar. We have spinning-only practices from time to time (when we have only a third of the ice) and my left foot is *killing* me afterwards.

[Query]

The thing is to analyze what part of your foot or ankle is killing you. If all parts equally, well, no one ever said wearing constricting shoes of any sort is natural. If not, something can probably be done.

Another thing to consider is that adults whine more than athletic kids. Non-athletic kids quit before they find this board.

[Sessy]

Actually I think they quit before they ever get to hard skates that could really make them whine, plus kids' weight is much less anyway so the pressure on their feet is less too.

[dbny]

The thing is to analyze what part of your foot or ankle is killing you. If all parts equally, well, no one ever said wearing constricting shoes of any sort is natural. If not, something can probably be done.


I don't agree with that. Pressure on the various parts of your foot are not going to be equal, but will depend on what you are doing and on which part of the foot is resisting the force applied. For example, there is no way your ankle is going to be subjected to the same amount of pressure as the sole of your foot.


Another thing to consider is that adults whine more than athletic kids. Non-athletic kids quit before they find this board.

Maybe, and maybe not. I know plenty of whiney athletic kids, and the adult skaters I know are more determined and tough than many a kid. I was an athlete as a kid, and I know the difference between "hurting" and being injured. I don't whine, but I do need to wear my skates for 5 and 6 hours some days, and there is just no way to do that without some ill effects.

[SkatingOnClouds]

How well do your current boots fit?
Starting to get a little too long, my right heel lifts when I do certain moves now, as they start to break down somewhat.

Were they stock or custom?
stock. An absolute bargain from Ebay

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?very little pain now

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
I have very wide feet, huge bunions. After seriously punching them out myself (no-one here even knows what that means, let alone how to do it) , I ended up cutting holes in the bunion area and making patches which I glued over the holes. Worked for me! Now only some pain when my feet are swollen, skating on very rough ice (Grrrr) or have to stand around for ages.

Details would be nice:
Graf Galaxy. Love these boots. I've had them 2 years now, and I am a big heavy woman, and I'm not exactly delicate when I jump - singles through to lutz. Very impressed with how they have lasted, given they are a lightweigh option which are meant to break down quickly.

[Ice Dancer]

How well do your current boots fit?
Very well, have never had any issue with them at all. The only problem I get is I have poor circulation in my feet, and when it is freezing at the rink my toes go funny, but that happens in any shoes! They were easy to break in and are so comfy.

Were they stock or custom?
Stock

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain?
None

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
No

Details would be nice, e.g.:
Risports RF4, and they are fantastic. I do ponce over them a bit more than necessary though!

[abbi_1990]

When i answered the poll i put 'stock boots fit with a lot of pain' cus i was still skating in my riedell red ribbons which were 1 size too long and waaayyyyy too narrow.

However, i got new skates today and there are wonderfull! The following questions are answered based on my new boots

How well do your current boots fit?
Perfectly, exactly the right length and width.

Were they stock or custom?
I dont know, the are WIFA size 34 LL.

Is there no pain, some pain, a lot of pain? No pain at all.

Did you have them modified (or modify them yourself)?
Nope.

Details would be nice:
WIFA prima size 34 LL (french size)