Padding and Protection for Skating

[Isk8NYC]

Another skating session, another battle with backspins. <snip> This post was originally in a Back Spin advice thread. It spawned a side discussion about pads and protection. I've moved those posts here to control the thread drift.

[Award]

Probably one way to really get stuck into it is to wear full head protection including a neck brace, and thick back padding, elbow protector and knee protector....and maybe shoulder protector, and just lay straight into it. So if you fall over, it should be alright. At least you can go all out into it and find your limits. One of things that inhibit certain moves is due to uncertainty of just where we can push it.

Otherwise you could take a video of the spin and get your friends, or your coach, and yourself to analyze it. Often you can pick up certain things from that.

[Mrs Redboots]

Wouldn't full head protection, etc, put your balance off, though?

My coach encourages his students to pad up - he says they learn, sooner or later, that you always fall on the bit that isn't padded....

[Award]

Wouldn't full head protection, etc, put your balance off, though? My coach encourages his students to pad up - he says they learn, sooner or later, that you always fall on the bit that isn't padded....

It didn't put me off balance. I trained with pads and helmet on and I can do centered spins, axel jumps etc with all the gear on (or off). It didn't make any difference to me. So you learned jumps with no padding or head gear right?

[Mrs Redboots]

It didn't put me off balance. I trained with pads and helmet on and I can do centered spins, axel jumps etc with all the gear on (or off). It didn't make any difference to me. So you learned jumps with no padding or head gear right?

Well, such jumps as I've done, certainly (I do primarily ice dance, and very little jumping). I've never seen anybody wear padding below an axel (in fact, padding at our rink is known as "axel knickers"), and never, ever seen anybody over the age of 3 wearing a helmet on the ice (except people playing ice hockey, of course).

[Award]

I've never seen anybody wear padding below an axel (in fact, padding at our rink is known as "axel knickers"), and never, ever seen anybody over the age of 3 wearing a helmet on the ice (except people playing ice hockey, of course).

I see! Ok.....well, there's always a first time. Check this link out.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=36147

[mikawendy]

Well, such jumps as I've done, certainly (I do primarily ice dance, and very little jumping). I've never seen anybody wear padding below an axel (in fact, padding at our rink is known as "axel knickers"), and never, ever seen anybody over the age of 3 wearing a helmet on the ice (except people playing ice hockey, of course).

I've seen a few adult and teen skaters wearing helmets. I don't wear a helmet myself, but I definitely wear knee pads and am not yet up to an axel. I don't mind falls to other parts of my body, but falls on my knees keep me off the ice so long that I'm willing to wear pads except for competitions and tests.

[RinkRobot]

I wear kneepads on the ice even when I'm just skate guarding during a public session; although I didn't start wearing them until after I started working on my axel.

I see! Ok.....well, there's always a first time. Check this link out.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=36147

Wow! Maybe I should have taken that helmet. I whacked my head on the ice back in April, right before final exams- no clue how I passed them all. Fortunately I didn't have a concussion but I did get whiplash. The doctor said no getting on the ice for two weeks, not even walking. My coach agreed with the doc and wouldn't even let me take lessons for three weeks. The worst part was that I work at the rink and had to be there to work but nobody would allow me on the ice- at all. My manager would hand me helmets everyday and call me Crash. He still randomly hands me helmets on occasion.

[ibreakhearts66]

I used to wear a knee pad on my right knee. However, I became mentally dependent on it and, for a while, had a really hard time jumping without it. I wore padded shorts when I first started working on my axel and low doubles, but stopped wearing those after a while. I just bought a new pair of padded shorts for two reasons. One, I have been having mental issues with my jumps. I keep popping them even though I know I can land them. I'm hoping that I will start doing them again if I know I have padding. Once I get the feeling of the rotation, I know I will be fine. Also, I started working on double axels and I know I will be taking some hard falls

[peanutskates]

what do you guys think of tailbone pads? I hate falling on my tailbone more than anything, and I've done it like 4 times now... but is it worth getting a pad? do they work? what are the ebst ones? thanks

[renatele]

what do you guys think of tailbone pads? I hate falling on my tailbone more than anything, and I've done it like 4 times now... but is it worth getting a pad? do they work? what are the ebst ones? thanks

I always wear a tailbone pad, at least for the past year - the skatingsafe gel one. Yes, it works. Falls onto the tailbone with it are so much less jarring on the spine, they are no longer a big deal now. I do have issues with the pad tending to slide down, though - not a huge deal since I don't wear skating dresses for practice, but I imagine it could be quite uncomfortable if one does.

[Sessy]

Well, such jumps as I've done, certainly (I do primarily ice dance, and very little jumping). I've never seen anybody wear padding below an axel (in fact, padding at our rink is known as "axel knickers"), and never, ever seen anybody over the age of 3 wearing a helmet on the ice (except people playing ice hockey, of course).

Must be a European thing or something, at our rink protection isn't very much used either (and I'm not seeing it used much at other rinks either), except wrist guards and an occasional sponge here or there.

[Skittl1321]

I've only rarely seen any sort of padding/protection worn at our rink. One girl was wearing some sort of tailbone pad on a freestyle session, and we have one low level adult who wears a helmet at each of his practices. Other than that, hockey players and toddlers are in padding or helmets.

I haven't had a bad enough fall to scare me into wearing it- but it's probably a good idea.

I always wonder how smart it is for the kids who wear bicycle helmets though. Those are made for one crash- then you're supposed to get a new one. They take 6 or 7 hits a session- usually at least 1 a good one. It makes me worry that the helmet won't be effective when they are riding a bicycle.

[Mrs Redboots]

I see! Ok.....well, there's always a first time. Check this link out.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=36147
Yes, I did know about her, but she is very much the exception. I don't think many other high-level skaters wear head-protection - certainly not here in Europe, although I don't, of course, know what is done at American nationals.

[Award]

Yes, I did know about her, but she is very much the exception. I don't think many other high-level skaters wear head-protection - certainly not here in Europe, although I don't, of course, know what is done at American nationals.

The article lets you know what happened, and also why she ended up needing to wear a helmet. I know a few figure skaters that gave up figure skating after hitting their heads. It could be a hair pin on the ground, or some other material that is on the ice but should not be, or just a 'mistake'. You just can't always control a fall, or have time to control a fall. You don't always fall on your head. Although, those skaters would probably still be skating if they had been wearing head protection during their training. Tomarchio now has a special personal understanding about how a helmet could benefit your head, and even your life. Even if helmet wearing is not common in figure skating, the option is right there.

[sk8_4fun]

I am a low level skater learning single jumps and I wear padded shorts, thin knee pads and, since a bad sprain last month, wrist guards. If I know I'm doing dance then I dont wear the shorts and if I need to I'll ditch the lot, so its not like I'm scared to go without it. Most of my peers (ages vary from 35-55) wear similar padding, in fact one lady is making a nice bit of pocket money producing stirrup type lycra leggings with removable tailbone and hip pads. Also I recently skated at another rink and while watching a national level dance couple, I noticed the lady was wearing knee pads.

[dbny]

This thread brings to mind the "20 Questions for Scott Hamilton" feature on the "Blades of Glory" DVD (yes, I finally saw it :lol: :lol: :lol:). When asked to compare hockey to figure skating, Scott said that in hockey, guys try to kill each other, whereas in figure skating, you try to kill yourself.

[SkaterBird]

The article lets you know what happened, and also why she ended up needing to wear a helmet. I know a few figure skaters that gave up figure skating after hitting their heads. It could be a hair pin on the ground, or some other material that is on the ice but should not be, or just a 'mistake'. You just can't always control a fall, or have time to control a fall. You don't always fall on your head. Although, those skaters would probably still be skating if they had been wearing head protection during their training. Tomarchio now has a special personal understanding about how a helmet could benefit your head, and even your life. Even if helmet wearing is not common in figure skating, the option is right there.

I wear knee pads (the Skatingsafe gel kind) over my knees because I have some knee problems and I don't even want to think about adding to them with a hard knee fall - and I've had a few. I had a nasty "ckick of death" on crossovers a while back and I barely felt it with the pads in place. I always, always wear a pad on my left elbow because it's fragile after an auto accident injury - I'll wear it under long sleeves even if I manage to test and/or compete. And (laugh if you must, but I am quite serious) I wear a SkatingSafe hip pad under a very nice hat when I practice. I've worked with speech and language disorders in people who have had nonpenetrating head injuries, and brain injuries terrify me. The gel pad is not heavy and the hat is not out of place in the rink, and I feel more secure with it on. Wimpy to be sure, but it works.

[Isk8NYC]

I know I created this thread, but I really didn't respond for myself.

I like to wear ski pants to teach and skate. They keep me warm, fit well, and offer some protection from falls. I stepped off my heel last week while doing threes on the line and ended up on my side. (Got distracted by one of the other skaters who was heading my way backwards.)

When I really skated, I wore knee pads when I was working on tough jumps. Usually, they didn't go on until after the first bad fall. Still, I don't worry too much about falling, even with whacking my head on the ice a few times. (I decided the skating obsession was more important than the falling obsession.)

I require my beginners to wear helmets, gloves, and outerwear, but I don't make a big deal about it. My standard speech: "Falling is a natural part of skating and means you're challenging yourself to reach higher levels. It's nothing to be afraid of or ashamed of, it's a step towards achieving."

I think fear of falling is more devasting in some cases than the actual fall.

[fsk8r]

I read the idea of a gel pad and hat with interest. at my rink you're not allowed hats, in case you fall and hit your head. means the stewards and first aider can see any blood. they do have the helmets but only recommend them for under 10s in public sessions or all kids under a LTS level in group lessons.

[Award]

I read the idea of a gel pad and hat with interest. at my rink you're not allowed hats, in case you fall and hit your head. means the stewards and first aider can see any blood. they do have the helmets but only recommend them for under 10s in public sessions or all kids under a LTS level in group lessons.

I see. So at your rink, hats aren't allowed for anybody. But helmets are allowed for anybody that wants to wear one, right?

And, when you mean 'hat', is that like a sun-hat...eg a cap?

[phoenix]

Tomarchio now has a special personal understanding about how a helmet could benefit your head, and even your life. Even if helmet wearing is not common in figure skating, the option is right there.

She wore the helmet for a certain amt. of time under doctor's orders. I don't believe she does anymore (she's currently on partnersearch so isn't competing right now).

Next best thing to a helmet--high ponytail or bun! Saved me from a nasty bump last year, when I went over backwards.

There's also this sort of thing, which I think would interfere less w/ balance.
http://www.betterbraces.com/ViewProducts/DonJoyHatTrick/157.aspx?source=google&kw=Hatrick&type=PPC&gclid=CN7wgfyNto8CFRJgWAod6jbgcw

[Award]

She wore the helmet for a certain amt. of time under doctor's orders. I don't believe she does anymore (she's currently on partnersearch so isn't competing right now). Next best thing to a helmet--high ponytail or bun! Saved me from a nasty bump last year, when I went over backwards. There's also this sort of thing, which I think would interfere less w/ balance.
http://www.betterbraces.com/ViewProducts/DonJoyHatTrick/157.aspx?source=google&kw=Hatrick&type=PPC&gclid=CN7wgfyNto8CFRJgWAod6jbgcw

Yeah.....I'm not sure if she's wearing a helmet or not in training sessions. I think the ponytail or bun can really help a lot as well. Although, that only protects a limited portion of the head. But definitely better than nothing. It's great that it protected you from a backwards fall though.

That donjoyhatrick product looks quite promising. I haven't seen that one before, but it looks like a workable product. Nice link.

[Mrs Redboots]

I see. So at your rink, hats aren't allowed for anybody. But helmets are allowed for anybody that wants to wear one, right?

And, when you mean 'hat', is that like a sun-hat...eg a cap?

At our rink, on public sessions, the only head-coverings allowed are ones worn for religious reasons, and they have to be securely fastened. Having said that, there are some helmets that can be hired for children whose parents wish it.

[Award]

At our rink, on public sessions, the only head-coverings allowed are ones worn for religious reasons, and they have to be securely fastened.

Which rink is it by the way? When you mean 'head-coverings', do you mean skater's safety helmets as well?

If they do ban helmets, then a chat with them should soon clarify everything.

[Sessy]

I wouldn't be surprised. Over here in the Netherlands, many places ban all headcoverings except for religious ones to keep the extremist-rightwing and the hooligan gang more or less out. To them, wearing caps symbolises something, at least, it's forbidden at every school over here that I know and they're often prepared to get detention for continuing to wear it anyway.

[Award]

I wouldn't be surprised. Over here in the Netherlands, many places ban all headcoverings except for religious ones to keep the extremist-rightwing and the hooligan gang more or less out. To them, wearing caps symbolises something, at least, it's forbidden at every school over here that I know and they're often prepared to get detention for continuing to wear it anyway.

Sessy, are you talking about banning of 'head coverings', as in caps and sun-shades only? Or are you talking about the banning of skater's safety helmets as well?

[Isk8NYC]

For the record, you can wear any crap you want on your head at most rinks in NYC. Hats, helmets, dead ferrets, small farm animals...just doesn't matter. But, you can't wear shirts over your swimsuit in the public pools. Go figure!
(Sorry, I was being immature there. At least I wasn't snobbish.)

As Yogi would say, this discussion is "deja vu all over again."



Maybe we could go back on topic now, before the thread gets out of hand?
Or, I could close the thread if there's nothing constructive left to post.

[Award]

I think that in usa, if rinks disallowed the wearing of "all head-coverings (which also includes skaters safety helmets)", except for religious reasons, then that rink would probably soon change their rules to accommodate protective head-gear, or be forced to close down. People have RIGHTS in the usa.

[Award]

But, you can't wear shirts over your swimsuit in the public pools. Go figure!

Is that due to a safety thing?

Ok...back to the discussion about protective gear.

[Isk8NYC]

Guess there's nothing left to say in this thread, other than to drift with the tides?
(2nd attempt to put thread back on track nicely.)

[Skittl1321]

Since there isn't really an OP on a "question" about padding (wast the question "should I wear it" "is it allowed" in the other thread? I'm unsure of where this thread was supposed to be going) I'm going to repost something that appears to have been overlooked.

What is your opinion of skaters wearing specifically bicycle helmets for ice skating? I doubt that parents have a bicycle helmet designated for skating, so I assume these helmets are also used for biking. Is this really a safe practice that we are encouraging the LTS tots to participate in? A bike helmet is made for one fall- and is supposed to be replaced after that. I see kids conk their helmets mutliple times a session. Is it negligent on the part of the rink to allow bicycle helmets? To not point out to parents that they are not made for multiple hits?

[Sessy]

And suppose it even does protect the head, what about the neck? I read somewhere those helmets actually increase the risk of breaking your neck. I mean that's about as important as the head is.

[Award]

What is your opinion of skaters wearing specifically bicycle helmets for ice skating? I doubt that parents have a bicycle helmet designated for skating, so I assume these helmets are also used for biking. Is this really a safe practice that we are encouraging the LTS tots to participate in?

My opinion on bike helmets is like this. I believe that the elongated bike helmets are a complete no-no, since the elongated helmet impacting the floor of the ice could probably lead to serious neck twist....potentially very dangerous.

Whereas on a bike, the rider is probably going to fall forward, or to the side, but probably not fall backwards. While on the ice, falling backward could lead to something potentially nasty. So head-gear that is more rounded should really be used. As for bicycle helmets designed to be replaced after a fairly big impact, I think that it should be replaced after a big one......but for the little kids, to have a helmet that has been bashed around is probably better than none at all. The foam in there should still take some punishment. I also think that the profile/size of the helmet is important too. If the helmet is too large, with diameter that extends well beyond the head region......then that could also cause nasty problems with neck injuries. So choosing a helmet can be important here.

[Mrs Redboots]

Which rink is it by the way? When you mean 'head-coverings', do you mean skater's safety helmets as well?

If they do ban helmets, then a chat with them should soon clarify everything.If you read what I had posted, you will see that I said there were helmets available for hire, for those children whose parents wish it. I am not sure whether people's private helmets are allowed, as I do not skate on public sessions.

The reason for the ban on head-coverings, incidentally, is public safety. Some people think it fun to snatch off other people's caps and throw them on the ice, potentially causing a nasty accident. Ditto if you were wearing a baseball cap and it fell off. And you aren't allowed in the rink with either a hoodie or a motorcycle helmet actually on your head, which is to ensure the safety of the rink staff. It is not that long since someone was shot during a public session, and we don't want a repeat of that, thank you.

[Award]

If you read what I had posted, you will see that I said there were helmets available for hire, for those children whose parents wish it. I am not sure whether people's private helmets are allowed, as I do not skate on public sessions.

Thanks for clarifying that. When you wrote that 'the only head-coverings allowed are ones worn for religious reasons', I was just really interested to find out whether you meant what you wrote. By 'head-coverings', and while on the subject of protective gear, I automatically assumed that 'head-coverings' included skaters safety helmets, which would then be disallowed if 'the only head-coverings allowed are worn for religious reasons'. But I get what you're saying though.

Yeah....I'm certain that skaters safety helmets for adults will be allowed at your rink. No doubts at all. They'd get caught in legal issues if they banned skaters helmets.

[Rob Dean]

My opinion on bike helmets is like this. I believe that the elongated bike helmets are a complete no-no, since the elongated helmet impacting the floor of the ice could probably lead to serious neck twist....potentially very dangerous.


I/'ve looked at kids wearing bike helmets and, while I haven/'t seen any studies, that is more or less the way it looks to me. I/'ve got a rollerblade/'skateboard helmet that I wear when I/'m feeling uneasy about what I/'m doing--as I have been these last couple of weeks since I bounced my head off the ice in a backwards fall during a ten fox lesson. Where I/'m at, other adults in helmets are occasionally seen. I used to wear wristguards pretty regularly, on the theory that my other hobbies needed the use of my hands, so if I disabled myself in a fall, I wanted to be able to paint while I was off work. :) However, I finally misplaced my last pair and haven/'t replaced them...

Rob

[Morgail]

Next best thing to a helmet--high ponytail or bun! Saved me from a nasty bump last year, when I went over backwards.


My (huge & thick) ponytail saved the back of my head once too!

As for me, I've never worn any type of padding or helmet, as a kid or an adult. My worst/most painful falls usually come from random footwork, spiral, or ice bump falls - and not jumps. However, I'm thinking of investing in some "axel pads" when I start really working on that jump & on doubles. And maybe some knee pads then too. Though what I should really get is elbow pads - I've bruised my elbows more times than I can count!

I sometimes wear a knee brace on my right knee (the one I dislocated last year). But I stopped wearing it all the time because I was afraid I'd get dependent on it, and because I couldn't wear it with a skirt & tights since the velcro kept catching on my tights. Now I only wear it when I know I'm going to work especially hard on jumps (and I'm wearing pants instead of tights).

[sue123]

I sometimes wear a knee brace on my right knee (the one I dislocated last year). But I stopped wearing it all the time because I was afraid I'd get dependent on it, and because I couldn't wear it with a skirt & tights since the velcro kept catching on my tights. Now I only wear it when I know I'm going to work especially hard on jumps (and I'm wearing pants instead of tights).

That's funny, I can only wear a knee brace if I'm wearing tights, otherwise with the sweat, it gets stuck on my skin and then becomes a pain to get off. But I always wear pants on top anyway. Have you thought of just a sleeve type brace? I wear that occasionally instead of the real brace, it's some support, and there's no velcro or anything like that.

[TreSk8sAZ]

I generally only wear padding after I've been falling on my hip/knee a lot while working on doubles. I wear a thin gel pad (I think it's the skatingsafe one) that I put either on the right hip or right knee, depending on where I've been falling. I agree with Morgail that my most serious injuries (broken wrist, broken hand, concussions, tearing the hell out of my knee) have been from stupid things like falling on spirals, stopping, etc. Falls from jumps and such rarely hurt, even big doubles. The concussions have come from falling on footwork and falling on a layback, and I can't imagine how padding would have helped (even a helmet, as in a layback the extra weight on my head would have made it more likely to fall since the weight of the helmet would have distributed the weight unevenly).

I think the use of a helmet for moves or dance is a lot different than using it for intermediate/advanced freestyle or pairs. The weight distribution is a problem on jumps and spins especially, since you're almost top heavy. Padding, such as gel pads or the axel belt doesn't change the weight distribution and create a different center of gravity. Part of the problem is when you take the helmet off after training your body to have a certain center of gravity and go into competition, the jump may feel completely different and create a timing problem. I personally have never used a helmet, but I know an adult who had a concussion from a spin and she tried it for a day, but found it too difficult to change everything to take into consideration the weight (however slight a difference) in jumps and spins.

[Award]

Yeah......with the weight thing, you'd have to select a helmet that is light. And if you're a versatile skater, the small amount of extra weight won't affect your spins or jumps. It's not like you're wearing a ski helmet or motor cycle helmet etc. Basically, if you're going to wear a helmet or one of those 'hat' things, then it's necessary to choose the right kind and right size for you. And, if you train with a helmet for certain things that you're working on, eg footwork, then it doesn't mean you necessarily need to train with it right up to the competition. You can use it whenever you wish.

[Morgail]

That's funny, I can only wear a knee brace if I'm wearing tights, otherwise with the sweat, it gets stuck on my skin and then becomes a pain to get off. But I always wear pants on top anyway. Have you thought of just a sleeve type brace? I wear that occasionally instead of the real brace, it's some support, and there's no velcro or anything like that.

Yes, the sweat issue is really icky when I wear the brace under pants. I can get it off with some good tugging, but I have to wash the brace a lot. The thing I like best about the velcro brace is that it has a hard ridge that fits around the outside of the kneecap to keep the kneecap in place. But a sleeve-type one would give some support, and wouldn't snag my tights! And I suppose it wouldn't matter if I got dependent on that one since I could just put it on under my tights for tests/competitions. Good idea:)

[peanutskates]

are tailbone pads noticeable under a skating dress/ t-shirt skirt combo?

the thing I worry most about is falling in competition and not being able to go on...

but if the pad was really noticeable under a dress, I wouldn't wear it to competition.

[renatele]

I don't think it would be noticeable under the dress/skirt at all - usually, people don't know I'm wearing one, unless I tell them (or they see me pulling it up a bit ;) ), and I'm usually skating in leggings + very thin see-through wrap skirt . Like I said, mine tends to slip a little further down than I'd like to, but it's not like it's slipping every 30 seconds.

Like with all skatingsafe pads though, you might sweat under it, and *that* eventually can be seen through some types of fabric (cotton comes to mind). Lycra dresses should be ok, I'd guess.