Keeping the free leg BACK in spin entrance . . help?!

[Laura H]

I'm having a major :frus: in my spin entrance not centering . . . I KNOW that my free leg is not staying back on the spin entrance but still can't manage to keep the darn thing back. (I'm CCW skater, so backwards crossovers, hold the RBI, step onto LFO and do the left outside 3 to enter the spin). Anyway, the free leg is consistently coming around too early, the spin rotates, but doesn't center, so I have those lovely (NOT) loops across the ice, ick!

I had a similar problem keeping my free leg back on the backspin entrance which was only resolved by plotting out my entrance so that I could do a slight toepick drag with the free foot at the hockey line, at the particular point where it would FORCE my free leg to stay back (in order to hit the hockey line "target".) As soon as I did that, I could feel the hip staying back where it should, and then I could do that neat "snap into the backspin" move that was eluding me before.

Anyhow, I haven't yet figured out a similar way to "trick" my free leg to stay back in the FORWARD spin. I know about the "T-push from the line" drill and have worked on that, but something's still wonky on the entrance itself . . . am I possibly bringing the free shoulder around too soon or too high? I do know that I have issues with excessive hip turnout - really have to work to keep everything squared up to keep jumps "together" so that may also be a problem. I know it's hard to know what is happening without actually seeing the entrance (I really need to get some current video), but does anyone have any general suggestions/drills/mind games to use to make sure that free leg stays back when entering a spin? It would be GREATLY appreciated!!! :bow:

[doubletoe]

The exercise of doing the spin on a line from a T stop (start at line and return to line) is a good one. Don't start the turn until you're back at the line and don't bring the free leg to the front until you've done the turn.

Maybe try looking for your right foot as you enter the spin. Look over your left shoulder as you push off onto the entrance edge and try to see your right foot, which is extended so far behind your skating foot that it's like a tail crossed behind it. ;) Also, the deeper you bend on the entrance edge and the more you focus on keeping your shoulders level, the better everything will work.

As for open hips, that's not really the problem so much as poor timing on the spin entrance (ask me how I know, LOL!). As long as you let the edge curve around before initiating the turn and bringing the free leg to the front, your free leg should not get into the wrong position.

[blackmanskating]

Maybe try looking for your right foot as you enter the spin. Look over your left shoulder as you push off onto the entrance edge and try to see your right foot, which is extended so far behind your skating foot that it's like a tail crossed behind it. ;) Also, the deeper you bend on the entrance edge and the more you focus on keeping your shoulders level, the better everything will work.



This is a very good suggestion. This helped me center my forward spin when I lost it. I got a Gus Lussi instruction video and this was the same suggestion he was giving all of his students to center spins. Now I try to imagine me going for a catch-foot camel for just a split second before I bring my free leg around. Be careful though, because this will generate a lot of force and it may cause you to rock back on the sweet spot for a second which will cause you to travel for a different reason. So don't use your full force right away. For the back spin, I imagine that I'm going to do a back camel, and then I snap my body to meet my free leg. It's very easy to make the mistake of trying to swing your free leg in front but this causes you to lose all of the power and snap in the spin. Best of luck to you.


BlackManSKating

[cherryliphoto]

then I snap my body to meet my free leg. It's very easy to make the mistake of trying to swing your free leg in front but this causes you to lose all of the power and snap in the spin. Best of luck to you.


BlackManSKating

It seems that I see "snap" used in every technique-related thread! is it just the word as it normally is, or is it technical skating terminology?:?:

[blackmanskating]

It seems that I see "snap" used in every technique-related thread! is it just the word as it normally is, or is it technical skating terminology?:?:

I am not sure if that is the official technical term for it, but it is the word I use that best describes the feeling I get when I go into a spin entrance. Personally, I don't care about technical terms. LOL I'll use whatever term that works. It feels like a snap, pull, or strong hip rotation that puts you into position while maintaining good power and speed.


BlackManSkating

[flippet]

am I possibly bringing the free shoulder around too soon or too high?

Very possible. I had the same problem with spins--couldn't center them to save my life. I tried the 'start from the line' thing, and it only frustrated me.

What finally worked was to imagine that my free leg and free arm were connected by a string, and HAD to come around together, or not at all! :lol: For some reason, I couldn't keep the leg back on its own, but 'connected' to my arm, I could. Keeping them together also fixed the 'torque' problem I was having, and I stopped corkscrewing and looping around the ice. My spin greatly improved once I got this technique down.

[Isk8NYC]

It seems that I see "snap" used in every technique-related thread! is it just the word as it normally is, or is it technical skating terminology?:?:
"Snap" is technical skating terminology. It's usually used for spins (the point where the entrance turns into an actual spin) or a jump (the point where the skater reaches a backspin position.) As you can imagine, these take place very quickly. If you do them slowly, you don't get a "snap."

Back to the question: a drill to build up control for holding bodyparts back is to simply practice holding those entrance edges for a full circle. Skate the entire circle on the same edge without bringing the arm/shoulder or free hip/leg forward. Sounds easy, but it's not if you're used to rotating to complete the half-circles on the line.

You can use a hockey circle to get started, but then try to trace smaller circles - doing it gradually gets you used to skating on a deep entrance edge. I usually teach backspins using a corkscrew marker drawing on the ice - works like a charm to get the skater to snap into the spin instead of looping off to 3turnland.

BMS - I like your backspin description - I also think of it as having your body "catch up" with the free leg that was behind.

[flo]

I think "big frog" entry - sort of like the position you're in when you go from one foot to the other in alternating 3's (frog 3's) - and look for my right foot. Also try going into it from a bauer a couple of times. Your hip will be back.

[cherryliphoto]

Skate the entire circle on the same edge without bringing the arm/shoulder or free hip/leg forward.

where do you store your free leg while doing this?

[Isk8NYC]

where do you store your free leg while doing this?
That's a problem - I can't take it off my body. yet. lol

I have my students keep it behind them, slightly inside or outside the circle. If you're skating on an inside edge around the circle, the free leg is inside the circle you're tracing. If you're skating on an outside edge, the free leg is outside the circle. If your free foot is next to you, you're doing the drill wrong - you're letting the free leg come forward.

Point your toe on the free foot and hold the hip up while skating on a bent knee -- it really helps keep it in place.