Jumping again

[rye]

Maybe I should title this "hopping again." I'm talking itty-bitty jumps here! I'm in ISI FS 1, working on regaining my waltz jump (I used to have one 20 years ago, but it's wandered off). I find myself very nervous to even leave the ice. I find I don't even want to leave the ice in a bunny hop, which I thought might be a smaller warmup for swinging the leg through and jumping up.

Well, it's not entirely true I won't leave the ice. I find I can make myself do the half flip -- although I do run out of steam after several tries on that, and then won't do any more in that practice.

Any thoughts? Advice on how to get over balking at the waltz jump?

(I used to post over at rssir; then took a couple years off skating; glad to have found you all over here.)

[jskater49]

I am one who would rather do a half flip than a waltz jump. I'm still not much of a jumper but what I found to be a helpful warm up for the waltz is to do it on two feet. Just glide on two feet, bend your knees and and jump as high as you can and land backward on two feet. No this will not help you with the kick through but what it does for me is get me off the ice in the air and reassures my mind that I can actually leave the ice and still live.

I used to always weenie out on my waltz jump in competition and ever since I started doing my two foot waltz jumps in the warm up, I do actually jump now.

j

[Skate@Delaware]

I used to be so fearful about jumping!!! anything that required lifting even one foot off the ice got my stomach all twisted up and i was terrified! I eventually learned to take it slower and use "baby steps" and it helped a lot. I did my first zillion waltz jumps on the wall. I was using a death grip, then evenually lightened so my hand was barely gliding along...then my hand was above the wall.

When I was ready to move to center ice, I got pads. My first waltz jump in the center of the rink (I forced myself to do it in the center) was a pathetic little hop but it was technically a jump. When I realized I didn't die and nothing bad happened, it helped build up my courage!!!

Try doing them at the boards, and get some pads. And go get it!!! You can do it!

[Isk8NYC]

Welcome to SkatingForums!!

I second the "work at the boards" suggestion for the first few tries during each session. Not big ones that curve - the wall does hurt when you bang into it, just small jumps to get the motion and rhythm of the jump.

Waltz jumps (actually, all jumps) are easier to do when you're secure on your edges. Practice walkthroughs of the takeoff and landings, really holding those edges securely.

The bunny hop is widely hated, but you're correct: it is a good drill for the waltz jump. So is skating backward, jumping up (without turning) and landing on one foot. Knowing you can land securely will improve your confidence and make this easier.

Again, welcome and good luck!

[Sessy]

Maybe all you need is a little extra speed. Waltz jumps are easier at speed than they are doing them slowly, honestly. Also, practice off-ice, in sport shoes, just the swinging through and jumping up. Surely on shoes you're not afraid of jumping? Then try jumping up onto the sidewalk from the road for example, to get a little extra height, and then go do it on ice. Make sure to roll off your toes when practicing. And practice the landing position and lots of forward-outside 3-turns at speed in your jumping direction. Seriously, there's absolutely nothing that can go wrong on the waltz jump if you keep the landing edge, even if your axis is very off, you'll still land.

[rye]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I'm going to take all those to the rink with me tonight. Started doing some off-ice practice jumps this morning, noticed I wasn't bending my knee to take off! Well, there's a basic issue right there, lol.

Sessy, are the FO 3 turns because they mimic on ice the shape of the jump in air?

Funny what you say about speed -- because I used to have a waltz jump, I can approach the jump with faaaaaaar more power than I feel confident at this point I could capture the landing from. Isk8NYC's idea about jumping up while going backwards and then landing on one foot, gives me the willies -- which tells me one big thing for me is indeed to trust that I can "stick" the landing -- after trusting along with jskater49 that I can leave the ice and not die, of course (lol, that captures the feeling so well!).

[Sessy]

Sessy, are the FO 3 turns because they mimic on ice the shape of the jump in air?

Not really, in the air you step over from a forward outside with your weight on left to a backward outside with your weight on right, in a 3-turn there's a phase with an inside edge inbetween. It's more because it mimics the take-off edge, the landing edge, and mostly the checking you'll need to do on the landing so you don't fall over the back of your blade. And because it helps to get the axis of the body right and straight up.

[rye]

Hmm, I'm puzzled about the landing edge part of it -- because the 3-turn would leave you on BI, while the jump landing is BO on the other foot. Or is the shape of the edge sufficient, regardless of which edge it is? Or should I switch feet quickly after the 3?

I hear you about the checking. Hmm, I wonder if the reverse can work -- because I actually free pretty good about the checked jump exit -- whether I can bring that feeling over to my 3-turn and mohawk exits and get them less curly.

[rye]

Ok, reading more carefully, Sessy, I guess you're saying, yes, step down onto the BO edge after the 3-turn. That reminds me of something I found out last week: I need to practice stepping onto a BO edge from a FO 3-turn *without wide-stepping* anyway.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about how every single bit of skating seems to interlock with every other single part right now! I think it's the skating gods laughing at me for feeling down on myself last week that I know so little. "Ha, you think that's a little? You can practice variations on it ad infinitum, don't talk to me about only a little!" I think they're saying.

[Sessy]

Every part of skating *does* interlock. Anyway take your time and keep the knees bent and the chin high and you'll be back kicking and sparkling in no time! :mrgreen:

[rye]

Thanks, Sessy. Whoo-hoooo, you folks are great! My waltz jump came back!

I did all the things above last night (except Sessy's 3-turn exercise, my 3-turns aren't good enough to work that way yet), three reps of each, to both sides:

* jump up going forwards -- bad idea, promptly slipped off the back of my skates & sat down. Just one of these, won't try that again!

* jump up going backwards -- cool, I can leave the ice!

* jump up going backwards and land on 1 foot -- OMG, I CAN land on one foot and it's ASTOUNDINGLY ASTONISHINGLY stable! This was the most amazing, I was not expecting it to turn out so easy and stable!

* jump half-turn two feet moving front to back -- this was the second most amazing, how very easy and no effort it took to turn.

* bunny hops at the boards -- focus on rolling to the toe-pick as I jump off. I think I didn't used to do that on bunny hops, so I always felt I was going to slide off my blade backwards. Whoo-hoo, they're not scary now! Then by the boards but not holding on; then away from the boards.

* waltz jumps ditto -- at the boards, pushing away for the landing; then slightly away from the boards; then fully away. The only thing I didn't do in both directions was the waltz jump fully away from the boards.

Then during class I fell on one waltz jump attempt, but it didn't scare me at all, I just got up, realized what I'd done wrong (not leaned back into the circle on the prep step), and redid it prepping properly and landed it.

[cherriee]

rye, that's awesome~

As other skaters said, the knee bend of your skating leg is key. Also, when you jump up, bring your free knee up. That will help you get more height in the air.

Congrats!

[Isk8NYC]

Congrats - keep working on it - you'll get it down soon.

[Sessy]

* jump up going forwards -- bad idea, promptly slipped off the back of my skates & sat down. Just one of these, won't try that again!


Sounds like you're jumping off your heel, not off your toes&toepicks?

[rye]

Sounds likely. I was thinking if I was towards my toepicks I would pitch over frontwards when I came down; anyway if I don't need that one to get my body comfortable jumping, I might just as soon skip it. Maybe just from a standstill, without motion, would be OK -- practice the feel of rising up through foot & toepicks, and coming down through toepicks and foot.

The one I do want to be brave doing next week is one of the half-flip preps: after picking in, jump up staying backwards and land on two feet. I can do a half-flip even without that, but I'd prefer to be able to be flexible enough to choose what I'm doing, instead of having a drill that I'm too nervous to do.

[lov2sk8]

A good exercise for when you are gliding backwards on your outside edge before your waltz or Axel jump, is to clap your hands behind you . If you can do that you are balanced over your hip, just make sure you put your arms back into position before you jump.

[tidesong]

"jump up going forwards -- bad idea, promptly slipped off the back of my skates & sat down. Just one of these, won't try that again!"

----

I willingly try double jumps but that is something that isn't in my favourite to do list! If you do it the way I am thinking off: take off one foot and land back on same foot, its what we call a double bunny hop and well its in the freestyle 6 step sequence that I do for ISI... and I find it more nerve wrecking than a bunny hop (take off forwards one leg, land on the other... which I find more nerve wrecking than a waltz jump lol...)

I definetly recommend getting bunny hops really stable before doing that again...

[rye]

lov2sk8, I'll try that! Unrelated to jumping, I've realized I need to spend a lot more time noodling around on BI edges, I wonder if the clapping will help me check myself there too.

tidesong, it was just a plain two feet up, two feet down -- nothing fancy like a double bunny hop! (Funny, I was just looking at some notes today and rereading the description of the double bunny hop.) I don't ever expect to get to FS6, so I'm safe from it ;) . On the other hand, reading the description of ballet jump in FS2 it looks like maybe that includes a double hop on one toe pick already; ai yi yi!

[GordonSk8erBoi]

"

I willingly try double jumps but that is something that isn't in my favourite to do list! If you do it the way I am thinking off: take off one foot and land back on same foot, its what we call a double bunny hop and well its in the freestyle 6 step sequence that I do for ISI... and I find it more nerve wrecking than a bunny hop (take off forwards one leg, land on the other... which I find more nerve wrecking than a waltz jump lol...)


My coach had me do double bunny hops when I was learning the waltz jump. I did find them pretty nerve-wracking.

[Skate@Delaware]

Waltz jumps (actually, all jumps) are easier to do when you're secure on your edges. Practice walkthroughs of the takeoff and landings, really holding those edges securely.

The bunny hop is widely hated, but you're correct: it is a good drill for the waltz jump. So is skating backward, jumping up (without turning) and landing on one foot. Knowing you can land securely will improve your confidence and make this easier.
These are two exercises we use at my rink-they really help a lot! the first one is great for getting the feel of the pre- and post-jump positioning without the nerves of the actual jump...we used to do them on the circles, just do the landing first....glide, turn to front and glide in the take-off position. It's great for building up those muscles plus you are using the circles as visual reference.

The other exercise gets you jumping OFF your toepicks and landing ON them!!! Very important!

I think you are doing great so far-keep it up!!!

[peanutskates]

can anyone explain why so many people here hate the bunny hop??

[Thin-Ice]

can anyone explain why so many people here hate the bunny hop??

I don't know about everyone else, but for me, it's because if I don't have the timing and weight-balance just right, I can miss the toepick and go down on my bony knees and that HURTS a LOT!:oops:

[Isk8NYC]

can anyone explain why so many people here hate the bunny hop??
We've had the "Bunny Hop Haters Club" discussion (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=23801) in its own thread - let's not take this thread off-topic, which is about learning to jump again.

I'm once again trying to master the loop from the inside three turn. So far, I'm convinced that I can only do it when Luv2sk8 is on the ice with me - I miss you, buddy! (My twizzles miss you, too!)