"Getting" An Element By Messing Up Another One

[Ice Dancer]

The most bizarre thing happened to me at the rink today. I have been struggling with (whispers) inside three turns for months. I have been getting more and more frustrated with them to the extent that I had a hissy fit about them in a lesson the other week! My coach has had the patience of a saint over them and has tried different explanations to try and get me to do them, but I understood perfectly I just couldn't do them!

Anyway today we started on a step sequence which included chasses, mohawks, outside three turn. My mohawks also aren't great but they are better than the three turns, which honestly were non existent. We were doing them by curving the edge around first before turning

In practice after my lesson I was practising the above step sequence and method, when by messing up a mohawk done a perfect three turn! So I started practising them by skating into them then curving an edge and they were working. It was the most random way I have ever managed to "get" an element, by fluking another one.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? On any element not just turns?

[Sessy]

Yeah if I mess up the checking on my inside 3-turns while doing "ballet arms", I automatically do back 3-turns after the inside 3-turn, followed by more inside 3-turns and back 3-turns if I don't watch out (as in, I start to spin travelling, kinda). I figured at some point that the leg position was the clue to getting the back 3-turns right so hmmm yeah that worked. :)

[Lmarletto]

My DD struggled with the backspin for a very long time and nothing her coach tried seemed to help. She's also ambidextrous and up through learning the loop jump and the camel spin would often set up for the wrong direction, leading to all manner of odd results.

Anyway, one time she informed me she was going to do a salchow and then proceeded to do a one revolution backspin, followed by a loop jump. I told her that was the silliest salchow I'd ever seen, but the backspin part was the smoothest and tightest I'd ever seen her do it. She immediately started practicing backspins and had 4 nice revolutions on her 3rd try. That was the end of her backspin troubles. All she could explain was that when she did that accidental backspin she "got the feel of tall" that she hadn't been able to feel before.

[dbny]

I haven't, but have often seen your mistake when teaching FI Mohawks. Holding a deep FI edge is also one of the teaching techniques for FI threes, so it makes sense that it would work if you doing a FI Mohawk and chicken out at the last minute.

[jskater49]

I could not get a toe loop. I didn't even get what I was supposed to do - coach tried and tried to explain and I just didn't get it. I had a mini combo - half flip - side toe hop, waltz jump and left something out so that I basically did a toe waltz and coach looks at me and says "Did I tell you to do a toe loop because that's what you just did" OHHHH - That's a toe loop! Yes, it was cheated, but I didn't even get the idea until I did that.

j

[teresa]

This is true of me too. My coach is good about teaching to me until I learn a skill. Often it's the round about way you describe that I "get" a skill. Presenting the "difficult" skill in a different way makes things click and work for me. Then, I can go back and learn the skill with confidence that I really can. We're lucky that we have a coach who knows how to do this and help us succeed.

teresa

[doubletoe]

Once I was doing a sitspin and I accidentally went into it on the right foot instead of the left foot and ended up doing a perfect reverse sit. I was never able to do a reverse sit when I actually tried to do it, so it was quite a surprise. Now when I'm having trouble with the reverse sit I'll sometimes try to trick myself by telling myself it's a forward sit (my body is harder to fool now, though, LOL!).

[ibreakhearts66]

ok i realize this is an ancient thread, but i was looking for another old thread and saw this one and just had to interject.

i was working on double loops a while ago, and as i went to do one, i like, slipped off my edge a little bit and as i jumped i flung one of my legs into the air. my coach was laughing and said "umm i said double loop not a hitch kick." i told her "ha, i've never done one of those before." then she said "yeah well you just did. now double loop."

so basically, i learned how to do a hitchkick through double loops.

[double3s]

I've been working on FI brackets forEVAH and keep falling to an BI edge. I finally realized, hey, maybe I can't do FI brackets, but I've got a dang consistent FI counter!

[blackmanskating]

I've been working on FI brackets forEVAH and keep falling to an BI edge. I finally realized, hey, maybe I can't do FI brackets, but I've got a dang consistent FI counter!

Same thing happened to me!!! But I was trying to do a FO bracket!! I kept falling onto an BO edge especially when trying them on my right foot. I realized that I have pretty decent Forward counters on both feet and on both edges. My coach included them in my Bronze Free because he liked them so much. Now I have a unique way of doing FI brackets now by crossing my bent free leg in front of my skating side before I step into the bracket. As the bracket happens, I kick the free leg back as I turn and it puts me on an outside edge and into a landing position.

Ohh I have one more. When I was first learning back 3's, I couldn't do them to save my life. I remember I chickened out of a salchow and did a good BI 3 turn instead. I couldn't believe it. 8O

Is it just me or are rockers substantially harder than counters? My rockers turn into 3-turns every time. LOL


BlackManSkating

[double3s]

Is it just me or are rockers substantially harder than counters? My rockers turn into 3-turns every time. LOL
BlackManSkating

Oh I agree; I think rockers are the hardest of the 1ft turns by far! It helps to think of "rocking" over to the correct edge, but then I rock too far and fall into the circle. I do (well, attempt) them with the free foot behind for the set up, close for the turn, and then in front for the exit. I find it's letting the free leg go back behind that pulls me into a 3turn.

[singerskates]

It's been a long time since I did a split jump because of my hiatus from skating due to a work place injury during the 2005/2006 season. But last Thursday I had a lesson with my secondary FS coach on Ticket Ice and was running through the section of my program where I come out of my spiral sequence into what was suppose to be a half flip/flip/toe combo but instead did a split/flip/toe combo. My coach asked me what I was doing. And I thought I had messed up my half flip but instead did the split.

Mmmmm, wonder if I can get my full rotation split ( or split flip) again like I did before the 2005/2006 season? What acident could I create to do that?
It would be cool to do split flip/flip/toe again.

[kayskate]

s i jumped i flung one of my legs into the air. my coach was laughing and said "umm i said double loop not a hitch kick."

What is a hitch kick?

Teaching a student to do a single loop, she stumbled upon a half-loop. Okay, let's harvest that and use it in a combo then go back to the single loop.

Kay

[vesperholly]

What is a hitch kick?
Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEjcVR8AUr8

But usually done from a loop entrance, like a falling leaf.

[kayskate]

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEjcVR8AUr8

But usually done from a loop entrance, like a falling leaf.

Very cool move. Would make a nice bunny hop variation for someone who can jump high.

Kay

[ibreakhearts66]

Very cool move. Would make a nice bunny hop variation for someone who can jump high.

Kay

its actually done as a full rotation jump tho. its hard to explain. for everyone who has ice network, nix phengsy kiind of does one in the middle of his footwook at 4.15 in the pacific southwest juvenile boys. i'm still looking for a good youtube video tho.

[doubletoe]

Oh I agree; I think rockers are the hardest of the 1ft turns by far! It helps to think of "rocking" over to the correct edge, but then I rock too far and fall into the circle. I do (well, attempt) them with the free foot behind for the set up, close for the turn, and then in front for the exit. I find it's letting the free leg go back behind that pulls me into a 3turn.

Daisies gave me a great tip on rockers: "Go in like a 3-turn, out like a bracket". It totally works!

[techskater]

its actually done as a full rotation jump tho. its hard to explain. for everyone who has ice network, nix phengsy kiind of does one in the middle of his footwook at 4.15 in the pacific southwest juvenile boys. i'm still looking for a good youtube video tho.

A full rotation hitch kick on the ice looks like a half loop with a kick in the middle. At the very end of the attached is a pair of full rotation hitch kicks (around 3:08 or so)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-YfopJI-oY

[ibreakhearts66]

A full rotation hitch kick on the ice looks like a half loop with a kick in the middle. At the very end of the attached is a pair of full rotation hitch kicks (around 3:08 or so)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-YfopJI-oY

i kept looking through kurt browning videos lol. it seemed like something he would do. thanks for the video!

but yeah. double loops taught me those lol. i'm sure you can picture how amusing it would be to think you are about to do a double loop and do that instead

[kayskate]

A full rotation hitch kick on the ice looks like a half loop with a kick in the middle. At the very end of the attached is a pair of full rotation hitch kicks (around 3:08 or so)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-YfopJI-oY

Now that I see the vid, I recognize the move. The other vid of the gymnastics/ dance version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEjcVR8AUr8) did not remind me of the full rotation skating version. I still think it could be a cool bunny hop variation.

Kay

[techskater]

i kept looking through kurt browning videos lol. it seemed like something he would do. thanks for the video!

but yeah. double loops taught me those lol. i'm sure you can picture how amusing it would be to think you are about to do a double loop and do that instead

I tried Elvis first, but as much as I thought he may hae done one in his Dragon FS footwork, he didn't! :??

Then I tried my fav Kurt program, but Singin' in the Rain didn't have one, but there was a link for this program. :P

[kayskate]

Here is a clip of Charlie Tickner. I know this is not a hitch kick, but it does not seem to be a traditional bunny hop either. There seems to be scissoring of the legs in the air. Does this move have a name?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpKf5m0tCoM (around 2:35)

Kay

[Isk8NYC]

If you mean that frog-like half jump at the far end, it's a modified Mazurka or Scissors jump.
(I adore Charlie Tickner - thanks for the link. Maybe Jazz will get me an autographed picture or something since she sees him from time to time.)

Years ago, when I was doing a program that had a loop jump in it, I accidentally did a really lousy Walley.
Lucky me - my coach saw the mistake and decided to put it in my program! Sometimes I can still "feel" the takeoff when I'm doing backward power pulls.

[ibreakhearts66]

Here is a clip of Charlie Tickner. I know this is not a hitch kick, but it does not seem to be a traditional bunny hop either. There seems to be scissoring of the legs in the air. Does this move have a name?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpKf5m0tCoM (around 2:35)

Kay
i think its just a really really big bunny hop

If you mean that frog-like half jump at the far end, it's a modified Mazurka or Scissors jump.

i think she actually meant the move about 10 seconds later. although the frog-jump thing was pretty cool too!

[Isk8NYC]

i think its just a really really big bunny hop

i think she actually meant the move about 10 seconds later. although the frog-jump thing was pretty cool too!
OH! Sorry, I didn't read the time counter right.

A bunny hop switches feet between takeoff and landing. The skater in the video did not switch feet.

I know what that is - it's a Double Bunny Hop! I'm not kidding - it's ISI terminology from an on-ice workshop I attended. (It's in the ISI FS 6 dance step sequence.)
You start it like a regular bunny hop, but instead of switching feet in the air, you "kick" and land on the takeoff foot.
It feels like a "skip" on the ice.
(Please try it on the wall or with a helmet if you've never done it before. It's tricky if you lean back too far when kicking.)

[Ellyn]

I figured out how to do a forward outside rocker by pretending that I was on an inside instead of an outside edge and trying to feel in my upper body as if I were doing a forward inside bracket.

Personally I find rockers more comfortable/intuitive than counters, especially the forward outside ones. I chicken out of the FO counters whenever I try them with any speed.

I can't really do any of the backward turns besides threes, but the few times I have tried to fake them, I think the back rockers felt closer to happening than the back counters.