Getting the snap on axel?

[eliza1]

Axels have been covered numerous times on this forum, however, it seems no matter what I try -- it still ends up on a quarter turn -- I just can't seem to master the snap that is needed. My coach is trying to get me using new arm positions(right arm over left) so that they initiate my rotation quicker but I just can't seem to get it. My coach keeps saying that when I kick through/knee up and then go to rotate it is as if I am delaying everything almost to the point that my upper body looks as though it is rotating the opposite way and to the right - almost fighting opposite to my lower body. Any hints?

Any advice would be appreciated!!

[vesperholly]

Honestly, that seems like a really complicated problem best solved in person by a coach, not by amateur skaters on a message board. :\

I can give you a generic axel tip, however: Practice backspins ad nauseum. They will really help your axel.

[liz_on_ice]

I can give you a generic axel tip, however: Practice backspins ad nauseum. They will really help your axel.

I'm not up to the axel yet, but I've got the nauseum part down pat on the backspin :)

[rf3ray]

Seriously FISH OIL HELPS

[miraclegro]

Fish oil helps with what?

[techskater]

Are you getting the hip turn in on the take off? This seems to be one thing a lot of "new" Axel-ers can't translate in their brain and it causes them to not be able to land it.

[eliza1]

Techskater, what do you think of when you step up into the jump -- snapping the left hip back or right hip forward -- if that makes sense??Do you wait on this action (until you are at the top of the jump) or should it be immediately on the take off as your leg comes through? It seems as though I can't stay in a tight back spin position and end up with my lower body trying to continue in the correct direction but my upper body is fighting back to the right, if that makes sense. I do numerous back spins, waltz jump - loops, etc..my double sal is actually better then the axel and I don't seem to have the same problem??

[doubletoe]

Keep your right shoulder way back when you're on the takeoff edge, then bring the right arm and hip around once you leave the ice. I recently tried the axel from a side toe tap for the first time, and that kept my right shoulder back more when I pushed out onto the LFO takeoff edge. The result was a really quick snap once I took off and brought the right arm and hip around! Start at a standstill, facing the wall, push yourself away from the wall onto a fairly flat RBO edge, then do a side toe tap (left toe, right toe) and push off onto the takeoff edge.

Someone once said the transfer of weight in the air is like jumping up onto a pole (think strip club), grabbing it with your right leg and arm and going around it CCW, LOL!

[eliza1]

Thanks, doubletoe!! LOL -- will try that in the morning!! I have probably been focusing too much on getting my right arm/shoulder across that it is already forward on the take off, thus, no snap action at all!

[doubletoe]

Thanks, doubletoe!! LOL -- will try that in the morning!! I have probably been focusing too much on getting my right arm/shoulder across that it is already forward on the take off, thus, no snap action at all!

It's all so counter-intuitive, isn't it?! Sometimes this sport just makes you :frus: LOL!

[patatty]

I had trouble with this for a long time too. The one thing that solved this was straightening out the takeoff edge and jumping more outward, rather than around. Something about a very straight takeoff edge, and kicking straight out on the takeoff, forces your body to go into the snap. When I start to lose the snap, I know that my takeoff is getting curvier, and I can see it in the ice tracings. When I go into the jump, I focus on a place on the opposite wall of the rink, and try to make my body go in that direction. It's really scary at first, but it forces the quick rotation on the jump.

[eliza1]

Thanks, patatty!! Will try that as well! Tried keeping the shoulder back and on the first one went splat only because I wasn't thinking about jumping and just concentrating on my upper body -- some of them were okay, however, still not completely backwards. Will keep trying to focus on right shoulder back during take-off and spotting forwards to keep the take-off from getting too curvy -- thanks again for the advice! It is outrageous how long an axel can take to finally "get" when in reality it is only a three jump into a loop.....

[doubletoe]

Actually, that's true about the straighter edges. Have your RBO preparatory edge follow one of the lines on the ice, then when you push out to the takeoff edge, stay on the same line but push out just slightly to the right of that line (1:00 instead of 12:00).

[eliza1]

Thanks doubletoe!! Giving my body a rest tomorrow (hate not skating but know when these old bones need a rest!) but will try first thing on Thursday morning!

[techskater]

I don't really think about Axels much, I've been doing them a long time. Many of my friends who are working on them, though seem to be missing that at the top of the take off, the free hip should turn in slightly to allow you to get up and over to the landing side with full rotation.

The only thing I think about when I do Axels is to step OUT of my circle on a tangent to the back outside edge. The rest just happens.

[eliza1]

Thanks techskater -- I am soooo looking forward to the day of not having to think about what I am doing and can land it consistently and totally backwards!!

[doubletoe]

Thanks techskater -- I am soooo looking forward to the day of not having to think about what I am doing and can land it consistently and totally backwards!!

Me, too! :giveup:

[jazzpants]

Someone once said the transfer of weight in the air is like jumping up onto a pole (think strip club), grabbing it with your right leg and arm and going around it CCW, LOL!Uh oh! Time to go to my closest S-Factor gym (http://www.sfactor.com/) and sign up for those pole dancing group classes!!! :twisted: :lol:

[chowskates]

The only thing I think about when I do Axels is to step OUT of my circle on a tangent to the back outside edge. The rest just happens.

Interesting... I usually think of stepping out perpendicular to the tangent to the back outside edge. Referencing what doubletoe said in a few posts earlier, 12o'clock is the tangent to back outside edge, I would step almost 3o'clock (not even 1o'clock)!!

[blackmanskating]

Interesting... I usually think of stepping out perpendicular to the tangent to the back outside edge. Referencing what doubletoe said in a few posts earlier, 12o'clock is the tangent to back outside edge, I would step almost 3o'clock (not even 1o'clock)!!


I agree!!!!! I just constantly think, "Step outside the circle." It will almost make you snap to your right side unless you fight it. Try turning your head to face outside your circle slightly and then jump in the direction you are facing. Make sure your arms and free leg are completely coordinated on the takeoff. If you jump inside the circle it will make you rotate over your left side and that is not what you want if you are jumping CCW. Hope this helps a little.


BlackManSkating

[doubletoe]

Interesting... I usually think of stepping out perpendicular to the tangent to the back outside edge. Referencing what doubletoe said in a few posts earlier, 12o'clock is the tangent to back outside edge, I would step almost 3o'clock (not even 1o'clock)!!

It all depends on how round or straight your RBO preparatory edge is. If it is round (for example, from the landing of another jump where the edge curves around), then you need to feel like you're pushing out of your circle practically at a 90-degree angle. However, if you are gliding backwards on a practically straight RBO edge and following a line on the ice (like you would on the jump harness) then you would push out closer to 1:00 or 1:30 (with the line itself pointing to 12:00). For example, if you are gliding backwards along the red line at the North end of the rink, heading West, then you would aim your takeoff toward the Northwest corner of the rink, which is about 1:00 or so.

[eliza1]

Thanks for all the advice -- they went much better on Thursday -- I really tried to concentrate on a straighter take off edge and keeping that right shoulder back. They felt much better -- one was completely around but I couldn't get my left foot out quick enough to check out so sat it down....but.overall, much better!!

[doubletoe]

Eliza, that is fantastic!! A little focus on checking out quicker and you will be landing them perfectly! :D

[looplover]

I love this thread. I'd wanted to have an axel by my 40th birthday - not going to happen cuz I turn 40 mid-November and I haven't been working on this with my coach. New goal is to get it off-ice by 40 - I think I'll make that one because I almost did last night :D

[chowskates]

It all depends on how round or straight your RBO preparatory edge is. If it is round (for example, from the landing of another jump where the edge curves around), then you need to feel like you're pushing out of your circle practically at a 90-degree angle. However, if you are gliding backwards on a practically straight RBO edge and following a line on the ice (like you would on the jump harness) then you would push out closer to 1:00 or 1:30 (with the line itself pointing to 12:00). For example, if you are gliding backwards along the red line at the North end of the rink, heading West, then you would aim your takeoff toward the Northwest corner of the rink, which is about 1:00 or so.

LOL! The "analytical" side of me says, if I need to step perpendicular to a tangent, I need to step perpendicular to the tangent whether my curve is more round or less round!

BUT it is definitely different on the harness because the harness only goes along one line, and you can't really move away from it.

[doubletoe]

LOL! The "analytical" side of me says, if I need to step perpendicular to a tangent, I need to step perpendicular to the tangent whether my curve is more round or less round!

BUT it is definitely different on the harness because the harness only goes along one line, and you can't really move away from it.

I know what you mean and I'm trying to figure out why the curve of the preparatory edge makes a difference. . . I think it's because when you're really curving around on a RBO edge, you will automatically get a round LFO edge if you step out at 1:00 in relation to your edge. Not to mention, the position of 1:00 keeps changing if you are curving around on a round RBO edge, so it's actually hard to determine the angle of the step-out in relation to the position of the RBO edge, KWIM? But anyway, I have found that in order to go from a round RBO edge to a fairly straight axel takeoff edge, I have to push out away from my circle more drastically (i.e., practically a 90-degree angle). When I try to do the same thing on the takeoff from a straighter RBO edge, my right hip isn't open enough. Hmm. . . maybe that's it. The right hip needs to be somewhat open on the LFO takeoff edge so that the right hip stays back, and the hips are already fairly open if you're on a very round RBO edge. The hips are more closed/square if you're on a straighter RBO edge so you need to push out more to the left to open out the right hip. (Why do I feel like I'm rambling to myself? LOL!)

[eliza1]

Doubletoe -- LOL!! I love reading any advice that you give because it always seems so spot on and understandable from a skater's point of view -- if that makes sense! Looplover, keep working them off ice and loads of back spins,three jump/back spin and three jump/loop jump/back spin and you will have them before you know it! Again, thank you everyone for all of the advice!!! I love reading this forum......

[techskater]

I think about a tangential line because a tangent line only hits the circle at one point. I don't step perpendicular to the line, more like 165-170 degrees from the BO edge. I keep both rather flat.