View Full Version : Another coaching change question
Hi--I read the forum all the time, but usually don't post. I have a question for all of you regarding switching coaches. I know this topic has been discussed before, but I have an unusual situation.
I'm an adult skater--skated as a child, now am at adult silver. I skate maybe 2x a week max, and up until this summer, took two private lessons a month.
Over the summer, I was diagnosed with a major illness which has put a huge cramp into my skating time. I'm able to skate as strength allows, but I'm in no shape to be taking lessons. I will eventually get back with a coach, probably in the spring.
My dilemma is this--I took private (2x a month) lessons from the same coach for about a year leading up into my illness. When I was diagnosed, I got the feeling she didn't want to deal with the whole thing. This feeling was confirmed by the fact that I have not heard from her at all in 4 months to see how I was doing. That's fine--she's very young and just doesn't "get it". I'm sure she doesn't care one way or the other whether she coaches me again, but I could be wrong. I'd just as soon start taking lessons again with someone closer to my age, and there are actually a couple of coaches at the rink who have been in similar situations to mine health wise and who are very supportive.
What is the etiquette in this situation? Can I just take up with a new coach without saying anything to the old one? My training with the old one was very low key and intermittent. I don't want to hurt her feelings or step on toes, but I sort of feel like it wouldn't be a big deal if I just took up with someone new down the road.
Thanks in advance for you input!
As a matter of etiquette, you must let your old coach know that you are coming back to a different coach, and you must tell her who it is. Your new coach should not give you a lesson without touching bases with your previous coach. This not only avoids uncomfortable feelings, but is also important for business reasons. Skaters have been known to leave a coach with unpaid bills and start with a new one. Of course that is not your situation, but both coaches deserve to know for a fact that all is well. You don't have to give your old coach any particular reason for the switch. A simple "I think a change at this point will be good for me" will do.
phoenix
10-08-2007, 10:15 PM
Actually in this case I tend to disagree. If I had a student off for that long I wouldn't necessarily expect that they'd come back to me, esp. if you only saw her intermittently & for a relatively short amount of time. I guess I consider someone "my" student if I've had them every week for several months. Maybe I'm alone in this; with a student that is very intermittent I'd half expect them to drift on, quit, or whatever. Sometimes they get more committed and start up more "full time".
But I think in your situation you'll have been gone long enough to consider it a clean slate. So long, of course, as your bills are paid up w/ the previous coach.
Isk8NYC
10-08-2007, 11:20 PM
I would tell the old coach in advance so there's no hard feelings or surprises.
I wouldn't want anyone to be caught off-guard and say the wrong thing to the wrong person. Plus, it demonstrates to your new coach that you respect them as a professional.
Just MHO.
peanutskates
10-09-2007, 01:58 AM
first make sure you can get the new coach you want. arrange lessons. then go and tell your old coach.
Thin-Ice
10-09-2007, 02:45 AM
Maybe you could try combining the two approaches. How about talking with the potential coaches and seeing which one you feel most comfortable with and telling them your situation re: your previous coach? Once you have settled on a new coach, just as a courtesy because you could run into your old coach at some point, I would give her a call and say "By the way, I'm doing better and will be back at the rink. But the time off has given me some time to think about what I want out of my skating, and I've decided to go a different direction than the one we were going, so I'll be working with Coach XYX. I hope you're doing well and will see you around." If she has a problem with any of that, you can just keep saying "I've decided to go a new direction". And if your new coach is concerned about any political repercussions, you've covered what you need to do to put your new coach in the clear. That way you've covered all the bases, even though I would consider a four-month break with no contact a clean slate. But better to be up-front and not have to worry about anything, including putting your new coach in an awkward situation.
kayskate
10-09-2007, 07:17 AM
I agree w what has been said already. When you are ready to commit to lessons again, touch base w your old coach and tell her you will be taking from X. If you do not know who you will be taking from keep it vague w the "different direction" idea.
As an adult skater myself, I think I would be more comfortable taking from someone closer to my age. Of course, some younger coaches are very professional and they might be exceptions. However, I have never taken lessons from anyone who was more than maybe 5 yrs younger than me.
Good luck and hope you recover quickly!
Kay
blue111moon
10-09-2007, 08:34 AM
I think I'd end it with the old coach now. Say you don't know when you'll be able to come back and don't want her to adjust her schedule around you. Thank her for everything but make it clear that you consider this the end of the relationship.
Then when you come back, you can start fresh with someone new.
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I think I will phone her up and tell her I'm not sure when I'll take lessons again, and go from there once I decide who I'm going to take from in the spring. She knows I'm back on the ice, and actually we skated the same session recently. She completely ignored me. Perhaps she didn't see me, but I sort of stand out. I guess I'm a little miffed at her lack of empathy for my situation, but like I said, she's very young.
stardust skies
10-09-2007, 11:00 PM
I'd personally consider the relationship over and move on as I please. You owe people you hire nothing aside for a paid bill, and considering her attitude (I'm "young" too, that doesn't equal uncaring or irresponsible) she really doesn't seem to care for an explanation. Time's precious, why waste it?
As an adult skater myself, I think I would be more comfortable taking from someone closer to my age. Of course, some younger coaches are very professional and they might be exceptions. However, I have never taken lessons from anyone who was more than maybe 5 yrs younger than me.
Since I'm 60, that would be difficult for me. My current coach is 25, and it hasn't been a problem at all. In fact, when I told her about my feet not being able to take 4 or 5 hours in skates, she said she had the same problem - which was a big relief to me, as it means my age isn't the problem!
Perhaps she didn't see me, but I sort of stand out. I guess I'm a little miffed at her lack of empathy for my situation, but like I said, she's very young.
Youth is no excuse for unprofessional behavior. As I said above, my coach is only 25, but she is professional. Coaching is her career, not what she does in her spare time. She is a rated PSA member who continues her education at every opportunity. I really believe this makes a difference.
chowskates
10-10-2007, 12:01 AM
You owe people you hire nothing aside for a paid bill,
Boy, that makes a skater-coach relationship rather impersonal, doesn't it?
If I were think that way as a coach, then I owe my students nothing outside the 30-minutes per lesson that they paid for. I would not be making plans for their progress, I would not be planning for their test or competition, I would not spend the energy to try to work in extra lessons before a test or competition, and heck, I would never spend time outside lessons trying to cut music and choreograph programs! Oh and certainly not bother to schedule them with another coach when I'm on vacation.
That said, if that's the attitude this particular coach is taking, then sure enough just tell her you're changing coaches!
Oops--I didn't mean that young age meant insensitive clod! Sorry--I didn't mean it to come off that way. I just meant I feel like she hasn't had the life experiences to relate to what I'm going through. But on the other hand, I know people my age, in their 30's, who also haven't been through rough times who also can't relate and are insensitive ninnies. So you guys are right, it's not an age thing. She's actually very professional for someone so young, and has taken me through 4 test sessions and been very supportive of my skating in the past.
So I guess that's why I'm surprised she hasn't shown any interest in how I'm doing health wise, and why I feel like she's trying to distance herself from the whole situation. I know that people sometimes have no idea what to say or do when someone is very ill, so maybe I should cut her some slack. I'll see what she does the next time I see her face to face.
Mel On Ice
10-10-2007, 12:09 PM
there's nothing harder than firing a 16 year old kid! Still, being an adult, handle it like an adult, be honest and professional about it. I can't ensure there won't be any hard feelings, but this approach may minimize that.
I had to fire a 16 year old with too many irons in the fire and too many pre-paid missed lessons. She seemed relieved, and we remained friends. She and her best friend helped me pass MIF when they were class instructors.
GordonSk8erBoi
10-10-2007, 04:14 PM
As an adult skater myself, I think I would be more comfortable taking from someone closer to my age. Of course, some younger coaches are very professional and they might be exceptions. However, I have never taken lessons from anyone who was more than maybe 5 yrs younger than me.
Kay
This is interesting to me. I've had 3 coaches. The first two were about 18-20 years younger than me, and my current coach is 10 years younger than me. I've never really given it a thought.
doubletoe
10-10-2007, 04:56 PM
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I think I will phone her up and tell her I'm not sure when I'll take lessons again, and go from there once I decide who I'm going to take from in the spring. She knows I'm back on the ice, and actually we skated the same session recently. She completely ignored me. Perhaps she didn't see me, but I sort of stand out. I guess I'm a little miffed at her lack of empathy for my situation, but like I said, she's very young.
Since there hasn't been any communication up to now, saying you aren't sure when you're going to start taking lessons again could be interpreted as an indication that you plan to take lessons from HER again once you resume lessons. I think it might be better to line up a new coach, and then before your first lesson with the new coach, inform your old coach as a courtesy that you will be starting lessons with Coach XYZ. If you want to make sure she knows you were happy with her as a coach, you could always say something to the effect that you have slowed down a little since your illness and felt bad asking her to take any time away from her younger, more active skaters who really need someone with her energy level. ;)
That's a great suggestion, doubletoe! I think that approach just may work.
kayskate
10-11-2007, 07:04 AM
This is interesting to me. I've had 3 coaches. The first two were about 18-20 years younger than me, and my current coach is 10 years younger than me. I've never really given it a thought.
Maybe it is my age. I am now 40. Most of the coaches I have worked with skated competitively in the 60s and 70s. There are plenty of younger coaches in the area, but I have tended to work w older ones. I did not consciously choose older coaches. The coach who was younger than me was an Olympian and was assigned to me by the skating school. I really liked him and we had a great relationship. I am still in touch w him and he has acted as a reference for me as I begin my coaching career.
Other coaches I have approached myself b/c I saw them working w other adults and knew their reputations. I approached a younger dance coach recently b/c I loved her skating style and decided to take lessons from her. Then I broke my ankle, so we never actually got together. I think I have chosen coaches based on skills rather than age, but it just worked out that most were older than me.
Kay
sk8tmum
10-11-2007, 10:21 AM
One comment on the whole thing: coaches do talk among themselves. If you end the relationship professionally and on good terms, you'll look better among the coaches, and, thus, are more likely to have positive relationships/opportunties for new coaching relationships. After all, coaches do get some discretion on who they agree to coach.
There are a few skaters at our club that the coaches avoid like the plague because of their reputations - even though they're pretty good skaters. Getting a rep of being a coach-jumper, etc., can negatively affect you going forward - even though that's not what is going on here, doing it right makes sure that everyone understands and respects your professionalism and courtesy.
just my two cents worth ...
cecealias
10-11-2007, 01:09 PM
One comment on the whole thing: coaches do talk among themselves.
There are a few skaters at our club that the coaches avoid like the plague because of their reputations - even though they're pretty good skaters.
just my two cents worth ...
I would like to also add to support s8tmum's post that switching coaches presents not just a simple change - often a lot more is going on.
Learning Figure skating is a lot like building a house.
For example: When you fire a contractor who started laying the foundation,
the next one who comes in may decide to redo the entire foundation or not care enough to fix the basic problems and try to build on top, or worse yet, only provide the services you want, such as a nice faucet and neglect to fix the underlying pipe problems.
If you don't want to spend additional money fixing the foundation and redoing the items that you had already spent time on, problems will eventually catch up to you. 5-10 years down the line you will see uneven foundation in the house, leading to cracked walls, doors that don't close and pipes that will bust and flood the house every winter.
Some people think they can't afford to fix the foundation or the earlier problems or it is a waste of time and money to redo the basics. But eventually it will catch up and break you.
So the moral of the analogy is this: If you do choose a coach, choose wisely. Find someone who lays a solid foundation from the start and is strict enough not to let you get away with sloppiness.
In the US, since there is no credentialing system for teaching, it can be difficult to find someone who is not only a good teacher who can work with your personality but also knows *how* to teach technique correctly and *why* certain actions don't work.
It will buy you less headache in the end instead of wondering for example "why oh why can't i get a proper backspin after 8 years??"
There are also people who take from multiple coaches and switch them around. While it may be nice to have a variety of coaching styles to help you get the right concepts down, be aware that there are some coaches don't want to really invest time into fixing technique as much as they want to if they have to share the student with 3 or 4 other coaches. These students sort of end up with a half-hearted coaching effort. I'm not saying this is true for all situations, but i have seen it happen before.
But again, this is just my 0.02 cents.
stardust skies
10-11-2007, 05:15 PM
Boy, that makes a skater-coach relationship rather impersonal, doesn't it?
If I were think that way as a coach, then I owe my students nothing outside the 30-minutes per lesson that they paid for. I would not be making plans for their progress, I would not be planning for their test or competition, I would not spend the energy to try to work in extra lessons before a test or competition, and heck, I would never spend time outside lessons trying to cut music and choreograph programs! Oh and certainly not bother to schedule them with another coach when I'm on vacation.
You don't "owe" them all of the things you listed though- the fact that you choose to give those extra things to them, makes you a good coach. Considering the fact that this particular coach didn't try to find out how one of her students was doing for four months, and flat out ignored this student on a mutual session, shows that she doesn't feel the need to go past the paid bill, and as such, am suggesting the OP treats this coach in the same way he/she is being treated, as well. You get what you give, IMHO.
Considering the fact that this particular coach didn't try to find out how one of her students was doing for four months, and flat out ignored this student on a mutual session, shows that she doesn't feel the need to go past the paid bill, and as such, am suggesting the OP treats this coach in the same way he/she is being treated, as well. You get what you give, IMHO.
You know, that's kind of how I've been feeling, and that's why I wasn't sure what to do. I've been torn between what I know is proper etiquette, and feeling like the proper etiquette is overkill given the circumstances.
Funny enough, I ran into the coach at the rink today. There was no way for her to ignore me this time, and we chatted for a minute. Just superficial, "Oh, how are you doing?" She did ask how my skating was going, given the situation, but made no mention of "well, let me know when you're ready for lessons again." Which I thought was telling of where her head is with me. If I were she and I saw that I was back, I would want to know if/when there would be interest in being coached again. Don't you think?
icedancer2
10-11-2007, 07:30 PM
If I were she and I saw that I was back, I would want to know if/when there would be interest in being coached again. Don't you think?
Yes, except that you are hiring her (we forget this sometimes) and so maybe she is waiting for you to say something. When you are basically a "serviceperson" it might be considered too forward to ask for work. Maybe she's just a little shy. Maybe you needn't take it so personally.
You should probably speak with her.
Isk8NYC
10-11-2007, 07:46 PM
If I were she and I saw that I was back, I would want to know if/when there would be interest in being coached again. Don't you think?I'm sure she IS thinking that, but she's probably waiting for you to take the lead. Not every coach is comfortable promoting their services, especially when they're first starting out.
I liked (as usual) Doubletoe's approach, FWIW. Think about how you would like to be informed if the situation was reversed and you were the coach.
That's true...maybe she did want me to say something. I realize I'm making a production out of something that shouldn't be so difficult. I think a lot of my problem is that I'm annoyed she's ignored me for this long and that I get the vibe that she's not interested whether I stay or go.
Isk8NYC
10-11-2007, 08:08 PM
Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff, right?
I think you'll probably both be relieved after a quick chat about the coaching change.
I've been on both sides of the fence. Trust me-the "employer" side is easier if you're willing to be the mature adult. lol
I know I've had students ignore my calls for months, only to be dismayed when they find I've "given away their lesson slot."
By the same token, I've been told that students were taking the summer off, only to find them with a new coach come September.
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS! Hope you keep posting.
Skate@Delaware
10-11-2007, 09:06 PM
My daughter Beth had a similar situation a while back, she wanted to switch her coach because she felt her coach didn't care for her at all (they had major personality conflicts). They had run into each other over the summer and no words were exchanged between the two. Now, mind you my daughter was 15 and the coach was in her 30's.
So Beth approached my coach about taking from her. My coach advised Beth to call her old coach and say she would not be taking lessons from her in the fall but would be moving to another coach-she would not take my daughter on as a student until she had done this and would follow up with a phone call to that coach. Very simple and easy to do. So, Beth called and talked to the coach, and broke it off. Sort of like breaking up with a guy.
Sometimes you do run into someone on the ice and they don't talk to you-maybe they are busy working on stuff. I get like that. If they are coaching then they won't (or shouldn't) interrupt a lesson to chit-chat.
sk8pics
10-12-2007, 05:58 AM
True, a good coach shouldn't be chit-chatting to someone else during a lesson, but a smile and a hello isn't really asking too much.
FWIW, throughout my ordeal with my broken ankle and resulting complications, my own coach told me several times that he would have a spot for me when I was ready to skate and take lessons again. First time he saw me at the rink (actually stopping by to meet a friend), he skated right over to see how I was. And had told me to just let him know when I was ready for lessons again. So now, we're trying to work out timing, but I'm in no big hurry and I know his schedule changes all the time. We've been together a long time and have had our ups and downs, but I really appreciate his attitude in this, not pushing but just ready to help me when I want it.
Sometimes you do run into someone on the ice and they don't talk to you-maybe they are busy working on stuff. I get like that. If they are coaching then they won't (or shouldn't) interrupt a lesson to chit-chat.
Absolutely true, except in this case, the coach had just come to work out, and was just stroking around. We were both at the boards at one point.
I was diagnosed with cancer. I hadn't been seen around the rink since having surgery and starting chemo. It's not like I decided to take a break because I was busy doing something fun. 8O
At any rate, I'm glad I'm able to come here and angst about skating for a change. The medical issues have been very 24/7, all consuming. It's nice to focus on something else. I'm sure that when I'm done with treatment and feeling better, I'll be able to talk to the coach in a calm manner and move on.
chowskates
10-13-2007, 03:14 AM
You don't "owe" them all of the things you listed though- the fact that you choose to give those extra things to them, makes you a good coach. Considering the fact that this particular coach didn't try to find out how one of her students was doing for four months, and flat out ignored this student on a mutual session, shows that she doesn't feel the need to go past the paid bill, and as such, am suggesting the OP treats this coach in the same way he/she is being treated, as well. You get what you give, IMHO.
Yep, I get what you mean, Stardust. :)
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.