out of interest... marking at Chelmsford Opens?? (or any county competitions)

[peanutskates]

Hey, I was just wondering, when I went to watch the Chelmsford Opens, the highest mark anyone got was 3.1 was this out of 6?? and what would 6 have been, in that case? because to me, the level 6 skaters were really good, ok, practically everyone fell once or twice, but 3 out of 6?? and only 4 girls from level 5/6 got 3's. everyone below got 2's . so, can anyone explain?

[techskater]

What were the elements that were skated with? What's the test standard at that level? What was the median mark?

[BatikatII]

It's based on the old 6.0 system so in that a 6.0 would be nigh on perfect Olympic standard!!!

You'd need to be at national championship level before you start seeing any 4.0 and above being given.

At an open competition I have seen marks right down in the 1.0's and my lowest ever was a 1.5 in a dance comp once.

Highest I ever had was a 2.9 I think (level 1/2 free skate).

The marks in the 6.0 system are not absolutes like the IJS system. Basically they look at the first skater of the group and give a median mark (one all the judges more or less agree on). No matter what the level this is often around the 2.5 mark. All the skaters they see after in that class are marked comparatively so if they are a bit better they might get 2.7 say or if much better then 3.0. If worse then the marks reduce. There are also deductions for falls or missing required elements or music that is too long or too many jumps etc.

It's quite possible to get 2.5/2.5 in one comp and then skate far better in the next comp and get only 2.0/2.0 say. This might be if the first skater was not as good in the second comp so the median mark for the first skater was lower. All the scores are then likely to be lower.(and some days the judges just seem to mark really meanly and other times more generously). It doesn't matter, as the scores only matter in relation to that particular comp with those particular skaters.

Besides sometimes the scores just seem wrong - you can have a great skate and think others seem to have skated badly and would get lower scores only to find you are last - and you havent' a clue why or what the judges were looking for or at? And often the judges themselves disagree to a huge extent.

As husband says - 'if you insist on competing in a sport that has inherently unfair judging (since it is highly subjective ) then don't complain when it seems unfair!!!!';) :lol: 8O

[mikawendy]

The marks in the 6.0 system are not absolutes like the IJS system. Basically they look at the first skater of the group and give a median mark (one all the judges more or less agree on). No matter what the level this is often around the 2.5 mark. All the skaters they see after in that class are marked comparatively so if they are a bit better they might get 2.7 say or if much better then 3.0. If worse then the marks reduce. There are also deductions for falls or missing required elements or music that is too long or too many jumps etc.

It's quite possible to get 2.5/2.5 in one comp and then skate far better in the next comp and get only 2.0/2.0 say. This might be if the first skater was not as good in the second comp so the median mark for the first skater was lower. All the scores are then likely to be lower.(and some days the judges just seem to mark really meanly and other times more generously). It doesn't matter, as the scores only matter in relation to that particular comp with those particular skaters.

Well said--this is why in 6.0 competitions, the marks are not as important as the ordinals if you are trying to figure out how you did in relation to the rest of the skaters in your event.

[dooobedooo]

my VERY rough guide (judges, please correct me!) ....

A score of 0.0 would be someone who couldn't skate.
0.0 to 1.0 someone is learning the basics.
1.0 to 2.0 early stages of competing/testing.
2.0 to 3.0 competent level 1 up to about level 5/6
3.0 to 4.0 very good level 5 up to about level 9
4.0 to 5.0 national competitor (Junior champion) up to national champion
5.0 to 6.0 international World-class
6.0 Torvill and Dean on a worldbeating nigh-perfect performance

Of course with the new judging system (since 2005), it is generally only the lower levels which are scored in this way.

It took me a long time to understand this system. The judges really just take a "rule of thumb" look at the OVERALL standard of a skater (presentation, stroking, quality of spins/jumps) and make a baseline mark. Then they knock off points (missed jump, missed step sequence) from the baseline mark to give the final mark.

You do have to understand skating quite well to know how judges come to their baseline mark. For example, in ice dance, where someone dances and presents fantastically well, but their actual skating ability is poor (poor edges and flow, no difficult skating moves, etc) the score may appear shockingly low. But the judges are supposed to mark the skating. Similarly, in freeskating, the overall stroking and quality of elements may be very high, but the jumps shown are not high-scoring ones, and some judges will therefore score the performance lower. A level 6 skater is likely to have only a couple of double jumps and a single axel, whereas a level 9/10 skater might be expected to show triples, and a double axel.

Also, this is a relative placement marking system, which is often affected by level of participants in any one competition. Skaters often score better nationally than internationally.

[techskater]

The other major question: What's the passing standard for the level? In the US under 6.0, the median mark is usually tight around that number, so for a Prejuvenile competition, the median mark will be around 2.7/2.7 whereas a Juvenile under 6.0 would be around 3.0/3.0.

[Mrs Redboots]

Last year at the British Adult Championships, few of the dancers got above 1.5 for anything, even the good ones. The trouble is, they don't always leave themselves much room to manoeuvre, and I've known marks as low as 0.5 in some competitions. We've had 0.8 in our time....

It does depend on the competition, though - in some competitions, they set the "median mark" at around 2.5 and everybody is buzzing around that. In others, they'll set it at 1.0..... same skaters, probably same judges, who knows why.... but then, who knows the mind of a judge (with apologies to those of you who are, but we often don't understand what you are thinking!).

And, of course, these days the judges are often influenced by IJS, being only human they can't be expected to switch between one system and another (and a judge I know who one year was judging the National Championships one weekend and our little club competition the next said that was the hardest bit!). I've noticed that programmes choreographed for the IJS (those of us who've competed in Europe, for instance and got ourselves an IJS score) do tend to score more highly these days than those that weren't.