Knee pain/sit spins

[Sessy]

Hey, I get this pain in my knee from the sit spins and from doing 1-legged sitting down and standing back up. It feels like it hurts just underneath the kneecap and hurts (almost) immediately afterwards. It's not bad at all, but I fear it might get worse if I don't pay attention to it now. Funnily I don't get it doing the hydroblades (but then the problem for me with the sit spins is to get them far enough to the front of the blade)...

Am I doing something wrong maybe? Has anybody ever had a similar problem?

[kayskate]

How deep is your sit spin? Maybe you should start w a higher position until you build quad strength. Off ice training may be a good idea. You might get some advice from your coach or see a personal trainer.

Kay

[jenlyon60]

Be careful because pain in that area of the knee can be the onset of patellar tendonitis or even Patellar Femoral pain syndrome (PFPS). If it gets really bad, you run the risk of cartilage problems and getting Chondromalacia Patellae (CMP). Unfortunately, CMP is not curable.

[sk8pics]

I recall going to a sports medicine clinic for women once, and the orthopedist who was speaking mentioned knee pain, and a common cause being weak quads or imbalance between your quads and your hamstrings (meaning your hamstrings are too weak to counterbalance your quads). The first thing he would have people do was leg curls and leg extensions. You should be able to lift with your hamstrings about 2/3 of the weight you can lift with your quads. Your problem may just be a lack of strength or that you are overdoing it, but I still suggest these kinds of exercises. I do them religiously and actually one leg at a time, not both together, so they each have to work equally hard.

If it continues to hurt, or starts hurting more often, you might want to see a doctor.

[Sessy]

How deep is your sit spin? Maybe you should start w a higher position until you build quad strength. Off ice training may be a good idea. You might get some advice from your coach or see a personal trainer.

Kay

Not deep enough to call it a sit spin.. LOL!

Both aren't in my budget unfortunately... Just taking groups lessons here. :lol:


Somebody mentioned cartilage problems, I did have those when I was younger, it went away after I got glucosamine supplements... So are you saying that's from overloading some tendons?! Whoa. 8O
I guess for now I'm just gonna hit the gym, it's free anyway with my sportscard. Cuz that imbalance thing sounds, uhm, well probably.
:D

[kayskate]

Not deep enough to call it a sit spin.. LOL!

Both aren't in my budget unfortunately... Just taking groups lessons here. :lol:



Are you learning sit spins in your grp lesson? If yes, please discuss your problem w your instructor. If the pain continues, you really should see a doctor. Someone mentioned cartilage problems. You need a MD to check that out.

Kay

[doubletoe]

I recall going to a sports medicine clinic for women once, and the orthopedist who was speaking mentioned knee pain, and a common cause being weak quads or imbalance between your quads and your hamstrings (meaning your hamstrings are too weak to counterbalance your quads). The first thing he would have people do was leg curls and leg extensions. You should be able to lift with your hamstrings about 2/3 of the weight you can lift with your quads. Your problem may just be a lack of strength or that you are overdoing it, but I still suggest these kinds of exercises. I do them religiously and actually one leg at a time, not both together, so they each have to work equally hard.

If it continues to hurt, or starts hurting more often, you might want to see a doctor.

You hit it right on the nose! I had the exact same problem 2 years ago, from the exact same cause (sitspins) and in the exact same place (right under the kneecap). My official diagnosis from the doctor was chondromalacia patella (softening of the cartilage under the kneecap due to too much pressure on the kneecap), but it was my physical therapist who really figured it out for me.
My physical therapist (who is a skater, thank God!) measured my relative quad vs. hamstring strength and determined that my hamstrings were not strong enough to balance my quads, which resulted in uneven pulling on the knee. Since skating is a very quad-intensive exercise, she says this is quite common among skaters. I was prescribed hamstring curls and a few other hamstring exercises and they helped noticeably. Also, although this would seem counter-intuitive, she told me to make sure I get down LOWER on my sitspin because once the thigh is parallel or lower, the hamstrings take over from the quads and reduce that quad pull on the knee. Of course, to get down lower, you also need to push your weight farther forward. As a matter of fact, it will help a lot if you arch your back and get your chest out over the knee more, since that will reduce the strain on the knee. I know this only because two things that bother my knee now are axel takeoffs and lowering myself to sit down in a chair without leaning forward, both of which involve bending the knee deeply without having the chest all the way over the knee and toes.

Two things she had me do right away were to take ibuprofen or other anti-inflammatories and reduce the number of sitspins, salchows and waltz jumps/axels I was doing. She had me limit my sitspins to 5 per day, 4 days a week, and even though my knee got better, I still limit them.

[Sessy]

I think the hamstrings imbalance could very well be it, because a few years ago, I was told to strengthen my quadriceps to resolve my knee problems, along with taking the glucosamine... I did. I also got some pretty massive muscles going right now, strangely all on the outside forward side of the leg if you know what I mean... So I'll try hitting the gym to get more balance.

Oh yeah and today the group coach told me to do sit spins from a camel, which somehow didn't give any problems at all with the spins/knees, so I'm still wondering if maybe it's a technique thing after all. I also seemed to get a lot lower from the camel spin, which kind of supports the theory that if you get lower, the hamstrings take over...

it will help a lot if you arch your back and get your chest out over the knee more, since that will reduce the strain on the knee. I know this only because two things that bother my knee now are axel takeoffs and lowering myself to sit down in a chair without leaning forward, both of which involve bending the knee deeply without having the chest all the way over the knee and toes.

Thanks for the tip I'll try that on sunday!!!

Right now I'm not jumping at all so that helps I guess.

[wasabi]

I would guess it's the muscle imbalance. I had the same problem and working with a trainer made a massive difference. In addition to working on the weaker muscles, however, you also need to stretch your IT band -- the muscle the runs along the side of your hip -- as that's problem exacerbating your problem. The best stretch is to stand with your legs crossed one behind the other, and lean towards the uncrossed leg. You should also do a lot of calf stretches, as a tight calf not only limits how low you get on sit spins, but also forces you to use the muscles around your knee more than you should be.

[doubletoe]

I think the hamstrings imbalance could very well be it, because a few years ago, I was told to strengthen my quadriceps to resolve my knee problems, along with taking the glucosamine... I did. I also got some pretty massive muscles going right now, strangely all on the outside forward side of the leg if you know what I mean... So I'll try hitting the gym to get more balance.

Oh yeah and today the group coach told me to do sit spins from a camel, which somehow didn't give any problems at all with the spins/knees, so I'm still wondering if maybe it's a technique thing after all. I also seemed to get a lot lower from the camel spin, which kind of supports the theory that if you get lower, the hamstrings take over...



Thanks for the tip I'll try that on sunday!!!

Right now I'm not jumping at all so that helps I guess.

I think the reason it doesn't bother you as much from the camel is because you don't have that sitspin entrance edge position, which is that stressful 90 degree knee bend where your chest is not all the way over your knee (because you are in the middle of the blade, not on the ball, like you are during the spin). I think that may be the part of the sitspin that puts the most stress on the knee and the left outside part of the quad just above the knee.

And yes, as Wasabi said, stretch your IT band, and also the outsides of your quad muscles (do a quadricep stretch but make sure to rotate the leg so that you feel it in the outside of the quad. Hold for 30 seconds).

[Sessy]

The best stretch is to stand with your legs crossed one behind the other, and lean towards the uncrossed leg.

Uncrossed? Which one is that? Say I cross my left leg in front of my right one, which one is uncrossed then? Aren't they both crossed?! *confused*

[coskater64]

First of all, right leg crossed in front lean left, left leg crossed in front lean right you should feel a little pull.

I have the opposite problem from most my hamstrings are very strong and my quads are weak so I constantly work on building my quads. Also, don't lean back, very bad idea, unless of course you like doing the butt spin.

:halo: :halo:

[Sessy]

Thanks!
:mrgreen:

The butt-spin, I've got that one patented, as I had with the nose-dive on the camel for a while haha! :mrgreen:
Actually I don't think I've come standing out of more than five or so sit spins yet, if I do, I figure I didn't push deep enough/try hard enough.

[doubletoe]

Thanks!
:mrgreen:

The butt-spin, I've got that one patented, as I had with the nose-dive on the camel for a while haha! :mrgreen:
Actually I don't think I've come standing out of more than five or so sit spins yet, if I do, I figure I didn't push deep enough/try hard enough.

Sessy, do I remember correctly that you have really tight achilles tendons and/or calves? If so, I can see how that would limit your ankle bend and make it hard to get your weight forward enough to get low and still stand up out of the sitspin.

[Sessy]

Not calves, quads and backside of the knee I think, but yeah they were kinda making it hard to get into the sit spin, though I had no problems with hydroblades.
Anyway it's just gonna be a problematic spin for me I guess. I wonder if on testing it would be allowed to do it from a camel entrance? I guess not... Cuz it was just so easy from the camel!
Anyway for now I'll be breaking in the skates and not doing so much sit spins I think... Although I wouldn't be surprised if the skates were part of the reason I couldn't bend the ankle, honestly. After all the blades of those skates were the problem with all my spins at first, and I couldn't figure out why they wouldn't work then either.

If it still isn't working a month from now or if it starts hurting more I'll be sure to not sit passively on my butt!

And, seeing as that there'll probably be no ballet this year, there might be room for like one private lesson a month or so after all, if there's going to be any offered to us anyway.