how to start a conversation like, I want to switch coaches (with your coach)

[peanutskates]

if anyone can find links to previous good posts about changing coaches and the ethics tied to this, that'd be great, but I can't seem to find anything that would help me...

this is my previous post of me wondering whether or not to change coaches... basically the whole story of why I want to:
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=23691&highlight=coach+dilemma

basically, I just need to know - how do you start a conversation with your current coach that you want to change? should I first ask my preferred coach (to whom I will change) if he even has any room for me?

for argument's sake, say I've found out that the other coach does have a convenient time for me, what do I do then?

I know my reasons for changing, and I can say them (after watching his teaching and his students, I kinda prefer his methods) (but thank you for everything)

but, how do you start a conversation like that? at the end of a lesson? (like, ok that was our last lesson?? bit evil, no?) at the beginning of one? at a random time? (BTW i'm not coming next monday, I want a new coach because...)

I just need step-by-step instructions. how to switch coaches, for dummies. also, how do I approach the other coach? like, I really like your methods of teaching, can I take lessons? or something...

ok thanks in advance

peanut x

[techskater]

You need to schedule some time with your coach outside of a lesson for that. Basically, schedule some time with him/her and don't beat around the bush. Be tactful and polite. Don't be mean. Be matter of fact. Explain the issues and the reasons and don't allow him/her to make you feel bad about it.

[flippet]

Is it okay to at least ask the potentially new coach if they have space? I mean, logically, that's what I would do first, emphasizing that I haven't talked to my current coach yet, but I'm planning to. I mean---you'd hate to leap, only to find out that the new coach can't take you.

But rink politics can be slippery, so I don't know?

[Sessy]

Gonna go with Flippet here, you wanna know for sure you've got a deal with the new coach before you say bye to the previous one, but you don't want your old coach to hear the story of you switching from your new coach - or worse yet, from a student who overheard... I've never done the coach stuff with ice skating but with ballroom dancing, the gossip mill in the dancing schools was always the number 1 danger to all your plans...

[herniated]

Hi Peanut!! Maybe your parents could help you out a bit? I've changed coaches (as an adult) 2x. The first time I did it before a lesson. That was not a good choice. Because now the coach is there for you to give you a lesson and at least for me there were hard feelings. She wouldn't take the lesson $ that I was trying to give her. It was ugly. I couldn't do it after the lesson because she had another one right after mine. I said to her that I needed to hear things in a different way because I wasn't progressing. She couldn't deny that. Anyway...the second time I did it over the phone. Much safer and I kind of said the same thing. It went much better. No hard feelings. I don't think she wanted to teach me anymore anyway.

Anyway, both times I did talk to the new coach to see if they could take me FIRST. I mentioned your folks helping out because it would take the pressure off you. Maybe they could talk to the possible new coach for you and/or old coach too. Do the dirty work, so to speak. Hope this helps.:D

[dbny]

I think Herniated's idea to let your parents do the "dirty work" is a good one, if you are comfortable with it. Also, flippet is correct that you should make sure the other coach has time for you first. Protocol then calls for you (or your parents) to let your current coach know that you are switching. In parting, something should be said about enjoying the lessons and how much you have learned and progressed with her, but feel the need for a different approach at this time. You could also offer a tip of one lesson's fee in appreciation.

[Rusty Blades]

Before I changed coaches, I let my first coach know what I felt was wrong in our working relationship and gave her the chance to discuss it or rectify it. When that didn't have the desired effect, I said that maybe I should think about changing coaches.

I then got suggestions from a very respected coach and did an "audition" with the prospective new coach - one session on the ice to see how we got along together and to discuss my goals. We agreed we could probably work together so I immediately went to see my former coach, settle all financial matters, and thank her for her services.

[peanutskates]

what do you guys mean, arrange a time other than your lesson? like, just come up to coach and say can we talk? or arrange to meet at, say, 6 o clock to talk? say "come up to me to talk when you've got a moment?" confused...

about parents doing all this, not sure, they're not really involved with the whole rink politics thing and skating, they pay and they sometimes come watch, but they haven't even met my current coach, and they only briefly saw the one I want to change to.

also, a different dilemma (for me)

coach I want to change to is Russian, as am I... but even though he taught me in group lessons way back when, I never really told him... and I kinda want to but I feel really awkward just coming up and saying guess what I'm Russian. I know he might feel more comfortable if he knew since he coaches this other Russian girl and he is constantly telling her everything in russian.. anyway how would you start a conversation like that? thanks

[slusher]

You say to your present coach: I need some time to talk to you about something off the ice, would you have 10 minutes free for me sometime today?

During the 10 minutes, if the coach wants to make it a longer conversation and/or include your parents they will tell you so. You should tell your parents that you are changing. It is possible that your coach and your parents are having communication that you don't know about. I don't do that to my kids but I know parents who do.

It takes less than 10 minutes to say to your present coach: I'm sorry but this isn't working for me and I am changing coaches. Could you please total up your bill for me and I will pay you in the next few days. Thank you for all you have done, I appreciate everything.

You say to the coach you want:
Hi Mr. Coach, I was in your learn to skate class and really liked you as a coach. My goals in skating are changing and I was considering a change in coaches to facilitate that. I think we would suit each other. If I was to consider you, are you available for lessons? By the way, I speak Russian and would be comfortable taking instruction in Russian.

[peanutskates]

thanks slusher, that's really helpful!

I'm gonna do it tomorrow... will update later!

[Morgail]

Good luck, peanut! Changing coaches is never easy, but it can be very worthwhile:)

[Sessy]

The way I broke the russian part with Jevgeni, our ballet teacher "Oi, a mne skazali - nu, vi ved po Russki govorite da? Oi, zdorovo! A vi ot kuda?" Turned out he was from the Russian-speaking part of Ukraine, "Da, pravda? A vi tut davno zhiviote? 10 let? Ogo, nado zhe!" :)

Of course the downside is, once he knew I speak Russian, he's only taught me in Russian - and I might not always understand what he wants from me. Terminology is different. On the other hand, oftentimes I understand better what Jevgeni wants from me when he tells me in Russian, because his vocabulary of English and Dutch words is limited - and his vocabulary of Russian ones isn't. Not to mention that Russian is a "richer" language in the sense that it allows you to be more specific.

[liz_on_ice]

thanks slusher, that's really helpful!

I'm gonna do it tomorrow... will update later!

Oh, if it isn't already too late - make sure you know what the new coach's rates are, and if they are higher than your current coach, make sure your folks are ok with that.

Good luck!

[Muskoka Skater]

I have never had to make a conversation with my coach about switching coaches but I have had some coaches who didn't want to coach me. Here is a way I think will help: if you start talking about normal stuff and then just work it in there why you want to change coaches. Hope this helps, good luck!!

[peanutskates]

hey sessy, great idea for the whole language barrier thing. ok, updates today! wish me luck (i really really hope that the new coach has room for me)

[peanutskates]

OK everyone, I did it today. Thank you for all your help beforehand, this really helped.

So, the coach I wanted had a space for me!! (incidentally, because one of my friends left that lesson for another) so now he is my coach (happy sigh).

Yeah... I told my previous coach... I felt quite guilty, but she just said, that's fine. glad that was over.

so... I have a new coach!:D :D :D thanks everyone!

[Skittl1321]

Glad it worked out for you, and I hope your new coach and you go great together.

[Sessy]

Good to hear
btw what's your youtube nick again?

[slusher]

I hope it works well for you.

[SkatingOnClouds]

Yay! Congratulations on having the courage to take action, even though you were worried about it! Hope things go well with the new coach.

[kayskate]

It seems part of your reason for switching is b/c you prefer to work w another Russian person and maybe speak Russian on lesson. If you are more comfortable communicating in Russian this is a perfectly reasonable explanation for switching coaches. This might be a very effective angle for your discussion w coach 1.

Kay

[peanutskates]

lol, kayskate, bit late... but no that is not the reason anyway, in fact I think I'm probably better talking in English, as I know all the terms for jumps and spins etc in English. I guess I'm just gonna be like, talk in russian if you want, but say all the terms and names of stuff in english...

[Sessy]

Well, let us know how that goes. Fact is, Jevgeni's tip to "idi za plechom" was far more descriptive than his Dutch equivalent of "shoulder before you"... So don't exclude the possibility beforehand.
Your parents are native Russian speakers right, but you didn't grow up over there? I could see where it could be hard for you to uhm, you know, pick up on a fluent stream of words in that case - you're used to the way your parents speak Russian, not the rest of the Russian population... But believe me, that tightens up real quick.

[peanutskates]

my mum is russian, I lived with her in russia till I was 7, then we moved to england cuz she met my dad (when I was 5) and married him. so I've lived in England for 7 years now. I talk Russian w/ my mum here. I spend every summer (like 5 weeks) in Russia, so I think I will be OK with the fluent stream thing, but I don't know all the skating terms in Russian. yet...

[peanutskates]

Oh yeah just remembered. here's my youtube:

www.youtube.com/peanutskates04 (http://www.youtube.com/peanutskates04)

i got a new one. no videos on it yet, I want my mum to video my new achievements soon. so you mgiht have to wait like a week or 2.

[Sessy]

Ahh, it's not that different... The jumps are named the same I think, the rest is named after flora and fauna: Paook, kozlik, lastochka, tsaplia, yolochka...

Here's some sites you might find useful:
http://www.tulup.ru/articles/28/osnovi_tehniki_prigkov.html
http://skateclass.ru/articles.shtml
http://inlineroller.narod.ru/
http://skateclass.ru/

And here's the Russian and English names:

Елочка (Basic Stroking), Фонарик, Подсечка (Crossovers), Кросс Ролл (Cross Roll), Перетяжка, Шассе (Chasse), Тройка (Three turn), Вальсовый шаг, Джаксон, Тройка №5, Скобка (Bracket), Твизл (Twizzle), Крюк и выкрюк (Rocker and Counter), Моухок (Mawhawk), Чоктау (Choctaw), Восьмерка, Фляк, Риттбергерный шаг, Обманный шаг, Дорожки шагов, Четырехшажный, Беговой, Петля \ Плуг, Drag-stop, Т-стоп, Parallel-Стоп (Хоккейный), На одной ноге, L-стоп

Пируэт (One Foot Spin), Винт (Scratch Spin), Волчок (Sit Spin), Либела (Camel Spin), Качающаяся либела (illusion spin), Заклон (Layback), Бильман (Bielleman), Кольцо (catch-the-foot), Карандаш (Martini-Glass Spin) \ Чинян (Flying Sit Spins), Бедуинский (Death Drop), Прыжок в либелу (Flying Camel)

Перекидной (Waltz Jump), Тулуп (Toe Loop) (RBO/RBO), Сальхов (Salchow) (LBI/RBO), Риттбергер (Loop) (RBO/RBO), Флип (Flip) (LBI/RBO), Лутц (Lutz) (LBO/RBO), Аксель (Axel) (LFO/RBO), Ойлер (Halp Loop) (RBO/LBI), Прыжок в шпагат (Split), Цак (Walley), Балетный прыжок (Мазурка), Козлик (Bunnyhop)

Ласточка (Spiral), Кораблик (Spreadeagle), Пистолетик (Duck), Besti squat \ Сantilever, Ina Bauer, Полушпагат (Lunge), Уголок (Hydroblading), Циркуль, Charlotte spiral

Поддержки (lifts), Подкрутки (twists), Выбросы (throws), Тодесы (death spiral) \ Вальс, Килиан, Влийцместер, Quickstep, Танго Канаста

[renatele]

And here's the Russian and English names:

Подсечка (Crossovers)


Some 20 years ago it was ход назад & ход вперед :lol:

[Sessy]

Really? I learned it as podsechka from my mother, who took skating lessons in the late '60s and '70s... Must've been both terms in use then I guess. Or maybe it differed per region, what it was called like?

Although I think podsechka (cut-under or chop-under perhaps as a literal translation?) is a more accurate description than crossover... It's "overstappen" (step-over) in Dutch and I never could understand - where's the stepping? LOL! :D

[peanutskates]

kozlik???? LOL.

i'm never gonna keep all those straight in my head, but thanks for the list! it will probably be helpful at some point! and considering I can barely do any of those it's not a problem yet!

[Sessy]

Yeah. Zhil bil u babushki serenki kozlik... ;)
The further you go into the woods from the bunny hop onwards, the less body parts of you are left undamaged, haha!

... ostalis ot kozlika rozhki, da nozhki... ;)

[peanutskates]

haha, what accuracy! :lol: