Senior level skaters who coach?

[littlekateskate]

We have multiple rinks in the area. Only one of them has senior and a few junior level skaters who work for the rink. But they not only do the "basic skills" classes; but they, through the rink do private lessons. i.e. I pay the rink for the private lesson not the coaches.

It seems like such a great concept.

And for those of you who think I should ask my coach, i did and she had no idea. I think she took it as an insult and that i thought she was too expensive. Which isnt it. I would still do lessons with a real coach. But if our rink had this available my daughter would be able to skate more private lessons.

I would probably do one with the real coach and then one with the senior level skater since its more affordable.

But I was wondering if this is that uncommon. They obviously cant work with kids in freestyle but its nice to be able to pay these guys to work privately at half the cost. They seem to gain the same benefits. (note these senior/junior level skaters dont do routines ect.. just teach the students basic elements)

[Skittl1321]

I'm a bit confused by the idea- are these junior/senior level skaters non-competitive? It seems like with a training schedule at that level of skating it would be difficult to get in too many lessons for them to teach.

I'm also not sure why they wouldn't be able to do freestyle? By junior or senior level I think they'd be more than qualified to teach basic freestyle. Actually I find higher level skaters who are still kids to be better at teaching the upper basics than the lower, as they often don't remember HOW they learned the very first few levels- and don't know how to express it to the kids. (Just my observation from watching the kids who help out our LTS- most are intermediate level- I think- they all help the higher basic skills)


--okay-- but based on what I think you are saying
1) I'm not sure this is extremely common, but our rink does seem to employ one coach who runs a specialty LTS program, where it's like one and a half times the price, and twice the number of lessons a week- basically it is called accelerated group. That is paid to the rink rather than the coach, but different from regular LTS.

2) You coach was probably upset with this because most skaters either have one coach, or an established "team coach" group. It's not common to take lessons from more than one coach (or coaches outside of a team) and in fact seems to be discouraged. Coaching appears to be very territorial. I'm not a huge fan of this- as I believe I should be able to take lessons from anyone I want, whenever I have the means to schedule them, but alas, that's not how skating politics work.

As for if you want to do it- I think that for basic skills, it's not necessary even to have private lessons, so you and I differ in that regards, but if you do feel that you need to do it- I would check with your coach to make sure it's "okay" unless you are willing to burn the bridge with your coach if she is a coach that prefers to not take a "many coach" approach and later drops you for not sticking with her.

Unless you selected your coach hastily, I'd value her opinion and stick with her for a good amount of time. From what I can tell- it's not good to be known as a "coach hopper" and your daughter is still quite young.

[littlekateskate]

I actually got our coach from emailing the director and she was like this is who i give our toddlers too. We moved and new nothing about the rink. People ask me at the rink all the time how i found her and when i say she was "recommended to me" they kind of laugh, lol.

She has a good heart though she just doesnt do much above the tot level.

Anyway back to the subject. Yes, these are senior level skaters who are national level competitors. I agree I have no idea how they fit the time in there schedules but they do coach a full schedule about 2 hours a day after there training.

I think from what i have heard around the rink that its just a matter of rink policy that they only can coach basic skills level students. I thought maybe it had something to do with rules since they are currently comptitive. And once the kids reach freestyle they then move up to "the real coaches". And most of the coaches from what i have heard at this particular rink will not take anyone until they are freestyle.

This is why i was so curious because i have three other rinks around and none of them do this.

[icedancer2]

I think from what i have heard around the rink that its just a matter of rink policy that they only can coach basic skills level students. I thought maybe it had something to do with rules since they are currently comptitive. And once the kids reach freestyle they then move up to "the real coaches". And most of the coaches from what i have heard at this particular rink will not take anyone until they are freestyle.



It must just be the policy at your rink, as there is nothing in the rules anymore that says that they can't teach private lessons when they are competing. That changed back in the early '90's - I remember it very well because that's when I started taking lessons from my (then) dance coach who was a national competitor (and awesome to skate with despite his lack of coaching experience, by the way!)- before the rules changed competitive skaters couldn't teach at all, and most supported themselves with other jobs, modelling contracts, etc. - but the pay as a skating coach was too good to pass up -- I mean, he was making $8/hr working at a gym as a personal trainer and could make $30/hr teaching skating so it was a no-brainer as far as he was concerned.

There were times when they were competing internationally that we didn't see him for weeks at a time, and around those times we also had to tell him that he was skating too fast, too big of lobes, etc. (which he had to pare down for us regular skaters when he wasn't skating with his partner) but it was well worth it to skate with someone at that level.

You are, indeed, learning a lot about the territorialism that goes on amongst coaches at rinks. I could write tomes about what I've seen here... the ridiculousness that goes on...:frus:

[techskater]

It's a courtesy to talk to your coach before you add to your coaching team. If you were an independent contractor, how would YOU feel if your client had you do 1/2 the work and gave 1/2 to someone else when you were available to do all the work? And then you find out that the other person did their half totally differently and it didn't mesh with the work you had done?

[littlekateskate]

We arent adding to our "coaching team".. I would just switch if the other rink was closer. I do wish the other rink was closer and I would go do the privates there all the time since they are half the price with the senior level skaters.

But more than anything I wish one of the three rinks where i live would have a program like this :) Wouldnt it be fun to have privates for half the price :) And I think more younger kids would get a chance for more ice time with this type of program.

[littlekateskate]

I dont think i have clearly explained myself well on this matter (as normally i dont).

But say you were a parent of a kid in basic skills group lessons. And were leary of doing privates at 30.00 for half hour + ice fees but there was a program available that it was 12.00 for a 20 min private and no ice fees. I think the parent would at least give it a try and more younger children would get to skate more often.

I dont know if that "situation" helped clarify anyone but i kept trying to think of a better way to write it while making dinner and had to try it, lol.

[Skittl1321]

If you are thinking about doing this instead of your private coach- for a toddler, I think it is a better option. I just don't think that a full coaches fees are really "worth it" for a toddler. Just nicely explain to the coach that you want to go another way, and you've really appreciated all her hard work, and maybe in a few years when you daughter is a bit more mature you will return to full on private lessons.

However, it seems that you really want your daughter to compete. If she did this, you said these mini-coaches don't do programs- so you would still need a coach. And therein lies the problem, if your coach disagrees with the idea of using other teaching staff.

[littlekateskate]

lol, I totally have everyone confused. Its not really an option for me as this rink is too far away. I just think its a great idea and I wish more rinks did this.

And i would do this if it was an option :) its definetly better for younger skaters!

[dbny]

No rink I know of does this, but I can think of a reason why a rink might. If a school requires their coaches to be full PSA members, then the teenagers would not qualify as they are too young; however, as junior coaches, they might be allowed to participate under the supervision of the school.

I can certainly understand the appeal of such a program for the parents of beginning skaters. As a coach, however, I've had unpleasant situations even in groups, where a helper has had kids in my group do things that I thought were detrimental. I handle that with a quiet word to the helper after group is over. When a child is coached by multiple coaches who are not working together it can be confusing rather than enlightening for the student.

[Debbie S]

At the rinks where I skate, usually there are a few high-level teenage skaters (like Juv and up) that help out with group lessons and the summer camps, but are not actually instructors, just helpers. In order to be an actual coach and give private lessons, that person must be a member of the PSA (liability issues) and I believe the minimum age is 16. I think the process of becoming a PSA member starts with mentoring and sponsoring by an established coach, so skaters that would like to coach someday (I assume) use the group lesson 'helping' as part of their mentoring.

Obviously, any coach just starting out (particularly if they are young) will charge less for lessons than the established, long-term coaches.

As icedancer2 said, many high-level skaters coach (as well as teach group lessons) to earn money for their training - they've gone through the process of becoming PSA members and full-fledged coaches. It's very common.

[babyrabbit]

Wow, that would be awesome if we could do privates for 12.00! I would let my daughter skate everyday lol.

[luckeylasvegas]

At our rinks some of the older girls do privates at about $20.00 a 1/2 hour for the lower level kids. They do their ISI programs etc. Once the skater advances into the freestyle levels they generally move up to a more experienced coach. I think it's ok if they are mainly recreational skaters who only do the in house or local competitions.

[littlekateskate]

At our rinks some of the older girls do privates at about $20.00 a 1/2 hour for the lower level kids. They do their ISI programs etc. Once the skater advances into the freestyle levels they generally move up to a more experienced coach. I think it's ok if they are mainly recreational skaters who only do the in house or local competitions.

Is it very often that a non freestyle kid really travels anyway? Just curious, I cant see too many ISI basic students traveling (specially since ISI is recreational).

Its nice to hear though that other rinks are doing this!! I need to find me one of these guys to teach me too - just the basics. :) hehe

[luckeylasvegas]

It depends where you are. We only have 2 rinks here that do ISI competetions so we (the rinks) travel to California alot. Some people hate to spend the time and energy to put together a program and use it only once, so they tend to travel for an out of the area competition. If I remember when my DD was in Alpha we probably did 2 home and 2 away (in CA.).

[twokidsskatemom]

It depends where you are. We only have 2 rinks here that do ISI competetions so we (the rinks) travel to California alot. Some people hate to spend the time and energy to put together a program and use it only once, so they tend to travel for an out of the area competition. If I remember when my DD was in Alpha we probably did 2 home and 2 away (in CA.).
I agree, it depends on where you live. We have traveled even at low levels for both ISI and USFSA.

[Query]

A local figure skating director made a deal with a well respected ice dance coach, from whom I was incidentally taking lessons, though I've never been competive. The director scheduled many dance sessions in consecutive time slots. The coach taught group lessons, and his high level competitive students offered 15 or 30 minute private lessons to people who took the class at standard coach rates.

God only knows how the students found the time. Perhaps the convenient practice sessions helped. The coach told the students it was good experience for a possible future profession as coaches. Maybe it was. I thought some were great coaches, and later switched to one of them.

The coach and his students used unique and distinctive skating styles, as appropriate to high level competitors.

Anyway, why not try them?

If your coach is overly possesive, he/she isn't confident of his/her comparitive teaching abilities, and maybe it is time for a clean break - consider switching to one of the students yourself.

[UDsk8coach]

We have multiple rinks in the area. Only one of them has senior and a few junior level skaters who work for the rink. But they not only do the "basic skills" classes; but they, through the rink do private lessons. i.e. I pay the rink for the private lesson not the coaches.

It seems like such a great concept.

And for those of you who think I should ask my coach, i did and she had no idea. I think she took it as an insult and that i thought she was too expensive. Which isnt it. I would still do lessons with a real coach. But if our rink had this available my daughter would be able to skate more private lessons.

I would probably do one with the real coach and then one with the senior level skater since its more affordable.

But I was wondering if this is that uncommon. They obviously cant work with kids in freestyle but its nice to be able to pay these guys to work privately at half the cost. They seem to gain the same benefits. (note these senior/junior level skaters dont do routines ect.. just teach the students basic elements)

I think since both people are coaching your daughter, they are both "real" coaches, one just has many more years of experience under their belt! :)

Lots of competitive skaters coach around me, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Dont assume just because they are cheaper that you are getting a good deal. Just because someone can skate amazingly, does not mean that they can coach, and vice versa. I think because your child is younger, a second lesson w someone such as a senior level competitor is a good idea, but make sure YOU keep communicating w that person so your child stays on track w what your main coach is working on. I hate to see people waste money bc they think they are getting a good deal, lol, and it happens more than you'd expect!!

The other thing w competitors is bc of their training schedule and travelling, they are not as consistent as an established coach who is no longer in training. I've been on both sides of this coin, and I have a lot of respect for competitors that coach (its a long day!!), but now as a competitor turned established coach, I love the fact that I'm always available to the parents and maintain a very consistent schedule.

It all comes down to what you are looking for for your daughter! :)

[kayskate]

Different rinks have different ways of handling fees. Some students pay the pro directly and the pro pays commission to the rink. Sometimes the student pays the rink and the rink takes the commission out of the pro's check.

As for the original poster's comments about the high test skaters coaching only tots, my guess is they may be underage and working as jr. pros. Pros must carry insurance and membership to PSA or other organization. Minors may join, but insurance must be signed by a parent. Some rinks may choose not to have minors teach privates. The test level of these skaters certainly makes them eligible for private coaching. However, they may lack maturity and teaching skills. Again, I assume they are teens. Some rinks choose to assign privates to pros who are legal adults and have teaching exp.

Kay