How long to learn a triple jump?

[alfongsucks]

I know that this is going to be a vague question, but I do not know a whole hell of a lot about skating, and I know that there are many variables associated with skating, but In general............. How long does it take a beginner skater to go from doing single rotation jumps to triple rotation jumps.... like single toe loop to tripple toe loop......... in general......... I know that many never can do them, but in general?

[backspin]

It's not that "many can never do them". It's that MOST can never do them.

Those that can, I don't think there is a "in general" answer. I know an 8 year old who is landing a double axel & learning her first triple jump. I also know a 16 year old who is working on her second triple jump. Each person is very different & it just all depends on how much they practice, how talented they are, how athletic they are, how much they want it, etc. etc.

I've heard people say that if you don't have all your triples by the time you're 14 or 15 you'll never be an elite level competitor. I don't know how true that is but judging by the ages of the girls at nationals lately that may actually hold some water. But someone could certainly come onto the scene later in their teens & still have a successful career.

[Jack]

have to agree with backspin... most can never do them. Just like in gymnastics where only a few very talented kids will ever be able to perform a full twisting double back, very few skaters are able to perform triple jumps.

As for a time frame, those who DO get their triples tend to get them at a very young age. Sarah Hughes for example was a 6 year old phenom landing doubles and had most of her triples by 11 or 12. Kwan, same thing. Look at the senior ladies in Nationals and I can say with certainty that most of them had their first triple by the time they were twelve. Men, on the other hand, can wait until later to build strength. If a girl doens't have triples before puberty, she can pretty mush forget it.

[alfongsucks]

I think that she was 14 when she had her first triple, it was a loop, I do remember hearing that. I think that is a hard triple isn't it? This was a long time ago, when people did not have all of their triples.

[x_peacegirl_x]

it all depends on the skater who is trying them and seriously, what a stupid comment jack! any girl that hasn't landed triples before puberty can forget it?! that's nonsense. if you start landing triples when you're thirteen or fourteen you're doing just fine.

[JDC1]

It really will vary from skater to skater. Jenny Kirk didn't start skating until she was 11 but I think she won the Junior Worlds at 15 (?) and she was definitely doing triples in just 4 years. From what I've seen on the local rink "club level" most skaters by 12 or 13 begin to work on triples. Frankly I'd like to see less work on triples and more work on spins but that's another thread. :-)

[arena_gal]

Conversation with a couple of the competitive guys at the arena the other night.
"when did you get your double axel?"
14/15/15

"When did you get your first triple?"
14/15/15 (obviously 2A and 3Toe or 3Sal are related eh?)

"When did you get your triple axel?"
laughter........

[jp1andOnly]

and then when u start working on ur triple axel, it screws up ur timing for ur double axel and you have to go back and relearn that. Fun stuff ;)

[Jack]

Originally posted by x_peacegirl_x
it all depends on the skater who is trying them and seriously, what a stupid comment jack! any girl that hasn't landed triples before puberty can forget it?! that's nonsense. if you start landing triples when you're thirteen or fourteen you're doing just fine.

Thank you for that astute observation of my mental capacity. Now please point to a skater who has learned her triples after puberty and has had any international or national success, hey for that matter, show me a girl who has had any success at sectionals having learned her triples after puberty!! :?:

[dobiesk8r]

Well, Jack, here ya go.

I took a seminar with Silvia Fontana and John
Zimmerman this summer. She specifically stated
that she didn't get her triples until late teen age.

The seminar was absolutely fantastic, the best
I've ever been to, BTW.

Silvia is Italian National Champion, I believe,
and did a very commendable job at the Olys.
Does that qualify?:roll:

[Mariposa]

YIKES Jack...You might want to do a little more research before you so emphatically make a statement.8O

[anital]

Jack,

Miriam Manzano, Australia's National Champ came 16th at Worlds, she only started skating at 11 and is now 27 and has all her triples and a beautiful double axel.

Alfongsucks, I think a better question would be, how long can you KEEP your triples! I got my first triple at age 13, lost my first triple at 13! Now I seem to have them all most of the time. It's much harder to maintain a good triple than it is to get a triple in the first place. I've landed the triple axel, but have I kept it? No way! (But I'm still dreaming ;))

[Ice_On_Winnipeg]

Originally posted by x_peacegirl_x
... what a stupid comment jack!

~~please refrain from using personal attacks ~~ Ice_On_Winnipeg

[AL]

I specifically remember reading in a magazine that Sylvia Fontana didn't land her first triple until she was 19. I don't think its rights to say that skaters have to have their triples before they grow, there are many that don't get them until after...

[Lee]

Lesley Hawker finished in the top 6 or 7 at her first Cdn championships last winter...she was 21 years old (or 20) and landed her first triple jump at the age of 17 or 18...she apparently landed a gorgeous 3-lutz/2-toe in the short program...one of only a few clean shorts at last year's Cdns...

Writing skaters off just because they don't have their triples before puberty is short-sighted at best...

[Jack]

Okay, Okay, Okay! I stand corrected! lol... I have to admit, sheepishly, that I was only thinking of American girls. That is very impressive about Sylvia, I had no idea. So, I would liikek to retract my earlier "dumb" comment and through this one out there for the hounds.

I believe that it is extremely difficult to learn your triples after puberty and that those ladies who are able to conquer triples after the age of 16 are absolute goddesses at whose feet I will forever worship! :D

[dobiesk8r]

Jack, you have a good sense of humor:D

And having seen Silvia Fontana skate, I can
say that her speed and flow over the ice are
as amazing as her jumps. But what a split
jump! Yow.

But that's my preference in a skater rather than
triples. Speed, flow, carriage, all the stuff that
seems to get lost today in the who has what
jump world of skating. Give me Dorothy Hamill.

But I am interested in the question an earlier
poster asked: of those who learn triples early,
how many keep them? As for me, I'd like to
keep my single jumps for a while!

[JD]

Personally, I think it also has something to do with size. If the person is unusually small/tiny/ whatever, then chances are even if the jump is progressively being learned, they may not be able to do them yet for competition.

Saying triples should be there before puberty scares me. Most girls enter puberty very young nowadays, and when I think of my daughter, who is smaller than most young girls 3 years younger, Tara Lipinksi and Naomi...? come to mind as examples of girls I am worried about my daughter emulating---not because of talent,or drive, but worry over injuries. You can't tell me Tara's hip may not be a result of perhaps overdoing the jumps at an early age.

And I am not sure I want to allow my daughter to sacrifice her body, no matter what the reward. And this is a personal thing, everyone is entitled to their ownviewpoint and quest for goals---from the Canskater to the Olympic champion

But regardless of "age", a body can only take so much at a time. Size may actually matter---there is only so much muscle strength available per inch. Plyometric exercises just don't solve genetics.

So, triples before puberty??? I would say size depends.
Just my thoughts.....

[peachstatesk8er]

Size definitely figures into the mix. Look at Tonya Harding - she could only land that triple axel when she kept her weight pretty low. Size is also part of the reason that Sasha has a better chance of landing a quad than a lot of other girls. The smaller/thinner/more compact the body is, the less resistance on rotation.

[anital]

I'm not too sure about the whole size thing. I have been skating on and off (health probs) for 16 years and have had all of my triples, including, for a very short while, the triple axel. I'm 5 foot 8, not the usual height for skating and have still kept most of my triples. I had a stroke when I was 18 and it took me about three months to get my triple salchow back after I had recovered from the stroke.
I am now 23 and have my triples fairly consistently, but I don't compete so there's no pressure at all (which is what I love.) I'm very strong and do a lot of off ice training to keep fit and I'm not underweight, though I am slim. I think starting young helps condition your body but I don't think you necessarily have to be really small. Learning and keeping triples is 50% in the mind and 50% in the body in my opinion.

[i'm a cat WAW]

yeah, well i think you're full of crap.......anyways, it takes a while to get your triples. some people get double axel and then right away get all their triples.....like sarah hughes.......some people never get them. just take your time and do what your coach says and then you will get them for sure!:D

[Kestral]

Originally posted by i'm a cat WAW
yeah, well i think you're full of crap

This is a poor example of a way to disagree with someone. If you can't express yourself in a positive way, don't bother typing anything.

[JD]

Yes, anital, I agree, with regards to height/size. What I was meaning was that I am not sure small, ie before puberty is necessarily a good thing when it comes to getting those triples without injury...on a personal note, I wonder if being taller,perhaps having more muscle mass, can make all the difference in not only doing them, but keeping them.

[anital]

Oh, JD, sorry, I misunderstood. I'm not sure that getting triples before puberty is such a good thing either, not only because of injury but also because of stunted growth or delayed puberty as a result of perhaps pushing your body too far too soon. My parents made me have a break and stop competing (I never went back either) at around 13 because they didn't think it was healthy for me to keep going the way I was. Needless to say, I soon grew and started "normal" puberty as well.

I think for me, getting my triples back after all my health problems was due to determination and lack of pressure, I don't compete, but I LOVE jumping. I do keep very fit off ice too, which also contributes I'm sure. I guess I skate for the right reasons now and I take care of myself more.

I think keeping triples when you are taller is maybe easier than if you start of smaller, obviously, since I started of with them at a young age, it's hard to tell for me, but I know I have them more consistently now than I did when I was younger (keep in mind, I'm still only 23) because my body is unlikely to change now.

[JD]

Thanks for the info, anital....and congrats to keeping them...I think you are further ahead than the many who never get them...so personally, I am happy about the way my little one's coaches are handling her...eyes to the future. Good luck in your skating.happiness with or without competing, in my opinion, in the end is all that matters. Hope some day you consider coaching, --it sounds like you understand not only the pressure, but what not to do, when teaching skaters...:) :)