Dances at any age?

[sk8tmum]

My kids are first-generation skaters, so I'm often clueless, and confused. 8O Here's my question for all of you experts: how long should a skater take to truly learn a dance; and should 8 and 9 year olds be working on Senior Silver and Gold dances? We've got a bunch of little girls who are whipping through the dances, and they're pre-pubescent, tiny, and without a growth spurt. And this is encouraged at the club, and those who can't keep up are seen as lacking ... They seem to practice and test 1 or 2 dances every couple of months (at the Junior and Senior Silver, Gold) level, but, don't seem to remember the steps a month or so after the test. Is it just me or is this a little pointless, i.e. getting the test, but, not retaining the ability to do it? Is there a benefit to testing really young, i.e. the youth factor and the judges aren't as rigorous?

[Mrs Redboots]

I think this is where the UK system may score, as we have free and variation/original dance tests from the word "Go", whereas in the US (and Canada???), a free/original dance (so much more fun to work on!) doesn't happen until you are fairly high-level.

Having said that, knowing a range of compulsory dances is essential, and dance is a superb discipline for any young skater, as you absolutely have to be able to skate to a wide range of rhythms and tempi, not just choosing music that suits your own style of skating.

And even though they may not retain the dances a few months after the test, they are probably still in muscle memory and will be retrievable for competition when necessary.

[Lmarletto]

At the lower levels, where dances are tested with a coach, skaters often *can't* do a nice job solo, but they pass because the coach is a crutch. By silver though, I'm pretty sure they all have to be soloed, don't they? As long as the quality of the skating meets the standard, I think not retaining the steps is a minor problem. Were are these girls moves-wise? With my daughter, I find that she's physically able to do dances long before she has the control to really make them look nice. Her coach's more advanced students are typically testing silver dances at about the time they're testing Intermediate moves.
Is there a benefit to testing really young, i.e. the youth factor and the judges aren't as rigorous?
This is a popular philosophy among some coaches (and parents) at my daughter's rink. My daughter's main coach is of the opinion that rushing tests so that judges will give a very young skater the benefit of the doubt will only come back to haunt the skater in later years. She also thinks that developing a reputation for very strong tests will ultimately go farther with the judges than testing Senior moves at age 10.

[sk8tmum]

Nope, no requirement to be able to solo,but, they can opt to do so (I've not seen that happen though). A judge **may** request a solo from Sr Bronze up ... but I don't see that happen very often, either. My son had to solo a dance b/c they wanted to see if the misstep was his or his partners ... IMHO, the little ones are still using the partner as a crutch, b/c the moves are very different when they skate with or without the partner. That's part of what bothers me :!:

[techskater]

That's where the American dance testing system has a catch - beginning at the Silver level (American Waltz, Rocker Foxtrot, and (Harris/Silver) Tango), a skater taking the test standard track/partnered must also skate the dances solo to demonstrate the control and understanding of the dance on their own if they are testing with a partner at a higher level (say, a dance coach who passed Golds/Internationals). It used to be Pre-Silver, but there was complaining that too many people weren't passing at the Pre-Silver level (Euro, Foxtrot, and 14 step), so they moved the solo requirement up to Silver.

Free dances aren't required unless a skater is going to Regionals/Sectionals.

[Lmarletto]

IMHO, the little ones are still using the partner as a crutch, b/c the moves are very different when they skate with or without the partner. That's part of what bothers me :!:
If it was my daughter, it would bother me too. Fortunately, both of her coaches put the development of high quality skills ahead of moving along as fast as possible. As for other people's kids - you can make yourself crazy worrying about them;) .

[SynchroSk8r114]

They seem to practice and test 1 or 2 dances every couple of months (at the Junior and Senior Silver, Gold) level, but, don't seem to remember the steps a month or so after the test. Is it just me or is this a little pointless, i.e. getting the test, but, not retaining the ability to do it?

I think this has less to do with the fact that a skater can remember the steps and more about being physically capable of doing the correct edges, steps, whatever. You have to consider that many of the dances and the steps, edges, etc. build off the previous level's dances. For instance, (I'm talking about US dances here) the American Waltz 3-turns carry over into the Starlight Waltz. Even if a skater cannot remember the American Waltz, they have obviously demonstrated the ability to execute the 3-turns correctly to the satisfaction of a judge who (hopefully) realizes that the next level's dances build on the steps learned in the level being tested. Any decent, educated judge would probably not pass a skater simply to pass them. If that's what's happening, then that judge and the skater's coach are not doing a skater any favor by passing borderline dances as that child will likely struggle in the next level.

[wasabi]

I'll apologize in advance for the long and slightly ranting post.

At least where I'm from, they're passing them way to easily. I recently went to a test session at another rink and was amazed at how much more prepared the pre-silver through gold level tests looked, but at my rink, the much less prepared tests would all pass anyway. That said, some skaters, even with harder judges, do pass the dances fairly quickly. I was on my pre-golds by 9, back in the day where the judges were hard enough that there was only one other girl (15 or 16) doing pre-gold/gold dances on my area. I was also a strong freestyle skater (had all my doubles) by then, and passed my senior field moves the following year, so I defintely had the edge control and technique to do the harder dances. In fact, the younger kids are usually passing because their technique is so strong -- strong enough to make up for a lack of presentation. The vast majority of 9/10/11 year olds don't have a maturity to adequately interpret most of the higher level dances, so they often pass over on technique to make up for an inferior presentation mark. I learned the Blues at 9, and my coach and I went through the presentation requirements listed in the rulebook as I prepared to test -- I actually had to ask her what the word "sensual" meant! And certainly few coaches are going to go over the actual meaning of a tango interpretation with a 10 year old.

I don't remember any of the dances at all, but I also don't remember any field moves or any of my old programs, so that could be just me. And passing the tests young didn't seem to hurt me much -- I've gotten halfway through my internationals without any major problems (except injuries and lack of practice time!). I'd have to relearn the dances if I wanted to teach, but going back and relearning them isn't nearly as hard as doing them the first time. All in all, I'd say that passing the dances young isn't a problem in and of itself; these days, I just think everyone's passing them to easily. Some kids whiz through the regular dances because of easy judges, never learning proper dance technique or partnering (this is mainly the case with freestylers who took up dance in their teens, though) and get stuck when they get to the internationals -- especially the harder ones -- because the judges suddenly start looking for real dancing.

In addition, the American test stream at least doesn't teach any real hold changes until the Starlight. It's not a terribly hard dance from the little I learned of it (mainly the partnering) but everyone gets stuck on it because of the hold change. After that, there's one or two in the Westminster (and a good male pro can easily do it without any assistance from the girl) and one major one in the Argentine, and then you're thrown into the higher internationals (Tango Romantica, Austrian, Golden) which have one pretty much every step. So it's a huge jump.

So I wouldn't worry about them being young. There's nothing they can do about the lax judging or the dances in the test structure, but their coaches can push certain basics (you wouldn't believe how many girls on their gold dances can't do a proper forward progressive!). Even if the judges aren't requiring them at that level, (hopefully) they will eventually, and if the skater hasn't learned it on the easier dance, they may get stuck for a long time.