coach? again on not going w/ student to comp

[littlekateskate]

Okay its been brought up over on the skater board. But i was curious as to how actual coaches feel about not being taken to a contest.

Our coach personally blows off contests a lot for my daughter. I think its because she has no other kids going, i dont know. Maybe she really is just taht stupid and forgets to get me the info ect.

But as a coach do you care if a parent takes their kid to a contest and they ask you to not go so that they dont have to pay the expenses.

I didnt even know it was an option until it was brought up in another thread. But I would love to have my daughter compete at a rink out of state (its where my parents live and her cousins compete) and there are a few that are only an hour away but i would have to pay for the coach to stay overnight ect. And I would love her to do these but I was worried after i got thinking about it that it would insult our coach.

Also, our coach is only ISI and we are going to get the USFS membership since my daughter skates basic skills wtih them anyway. And I know our coach doesnt have any usfs kids so would it be ok to take her to usfs contests. And can my daughter compete usfs even if her coach isnt?

[phoenix]

Your coach can be at the boards for any non-qualifying USFS competition. For any qualifying, she has to be a member of the PSA, and I'm not sure if there's a USFS membership requirement. She will, however, have to get herself a rulebook & familiarize herself w/ USFS competition requirements/rules. But if I recall, your daughter is very young/low level, so it wouldn't be a big deal as far as rules go. She'd compete no test/limited beginner (whatever that competition calls it)--and you should be aware that she will get creamed in that level. For USFS competition the kids get held back from testing up until they are well beyond the ability of the test requirement for the competition level.

For example, in no test/limited beginner, at my club's yearly comp, the rule is 1/2 jumps, toe loop & salchow, no flying spins, no combination spins, and no backspins. BUT--the kids competing in that level could well have all their single jumps and be working on an axel, have good combination spins, and good speed, height, etc. I have a student in just that situation. It's just the way it is in this type of competition. Which is why it's nice to start in ISI or Basic Skills competitions, which gives you a much more level playing field at the beginning levels.

As long as you're all okay with that, you can do whatever you want.

You are not required to bring your coach to the competition, but I would strongly advise you to tell the coach about it & have her be involved in the preparation. As a coach I wouldn't feel bad if my students didn't have me come to a competition, and in fact it's fairly common.

If you intend to put her out, I'd do some reconnoissance ahead of time though, to make sure you know what's happening where, and have the coach prepare a canned warmup for her so she knows what to do when she gets there.

[Lmarletto]

I think going to a competition where you have family and cousins will be skating too sounds like a lovely idea. I can't imagine any coach having a problem with something like that.

Where my daughter skates, kids in the 5-8yo range competing No Test through Pre-Juv and showing potential for serious competitive skating typically do 3-4 competitions a year, all with a coach present. Kids in the 4-6yo range competing in Basic Skills typically do 1-3 competitions a year again always with the coach present. The kids with the most potential actually do fewer competitions because their coaches are much more focussed on skill development and don't want to "waste" too much time on programs which are full of skills their students have already mastered.

As for the rest, it sounds like you don't think much of your daughter's coach, so maybe the issue isn't really traveling to competitions without her...

[Tennisany1]

...
Our coach personally blows off contests a lot for my daughter. I think its because she has no other kids going, i dont know. Maybe she really is just taht stupid and forgets to get me the info ect. ...

JMHO, but if you think your coach is "that stupid" then perhaps it is time to find a new coach. I haven't seen your daughter skate, but I suspect, like LMarletto, that the coach would rather your daughter be working on her basic skills rather than spending time on programs. Your daughter has years ahead of her for competitions. Developing really good basic skating skills is the best preparation she can get at this point. If she wants to perform and wear a costume, let her get involved in a Christmas or year end show at your club. Prep time is usually minimal and it will give her a performance opportunity. If your family can't attend, take video and sent them copy.

[littlekateskate]

Well see that is where my daughters coach makes no sense to me. She spends her whole practice on her program but then blows off competitions. Typically gets me the applications late. But doesnt work on simple things like crossovers and such at practice. My daughter is taking group lessons as well but i excpected that private lessons would be part program and then again just more personal attention on the things they learn in group lessons.

I wasnt raised skating so maybe if you are taking group lessons then private are more for programs and such but the whole coach doesnt seem to make sense. She is a decent person and I hate "firing" her but we have considered it many times. I just know it will be awkward after we do and we go to try to find another one. Not to mention she is one of the cheaper coaches around here.

She is 60.00 an hour everyone else is more. And she is only known for teaching basics which is disturbing. But to quite complaining and get to my point. I want her progressing leanring new things. And we skate at least 2-3 days a week. And i do want my daughter to compete, she loves it and i think its good for her. But I feel like only 10 min a lesson should be on her program and 20 min should be on "basic skills".

[3skatekiddos]

My DD skates with a coach as well but she doesn't work on any programs. She is 4 and all she is working on are basic skills. She has a 15 min private twice a week and group lessons for 30 min twice a week. She will probably do the club competition this year but that is it. I don't really want to go down the compeptition road until she is considerably older and her coach is the same way. But that's just us and we are in Canada as well so i don't know if that makes a difference ?

[phoenix]

She is 60.00 an hour everyone else is more. And she is only known for teaching basics which is disturbing. But to quite complaining and get to my point. I want her progressing leanring new things. And we skate at least 2-3 days a week. And i do want my daughter to compete, she loves it and i think its good for her. But I feel like only 10 min a lesson should be on her program and 20 min should be on "basic skills".

I think you are right on the mark in wanting the coach to spend more time on teaching your daughter new skills & polishing/strengthening her existing skills. You shouldn't necessarily be concerned that the coach is only a low level coach--those coaches can be great, if their attention to detail at the basics level is very good. I'd like to believe I'm in that category (for freestyle). I only teach through single jumps & the first few spins. Then I have to hand the student over to a jump/spin coach for them to continue. And I believe I do a really good job at that.

[littlekateskate]

Phoenix...

Thanks! You are completely right. It made me think. Now if i could just really get her to concentrate on her basic basics.. The other thing that annoys me is that she will do things with my daughter that have no value. Like we all know its about impossible for a 4 year old to skate one foot while holding up there other foot in the air. My daughter cant hold a one foot glide long enough to even consider it. But she will spend five minutes on stupid stuff like that.

Maybe its time i just swallow hard and get a new coach. And sticking with a cheaper coach doesnt sound too bad as long as they are working hard on what she needs to learn. She is far off from learning any jumps or what not. And hopefully a new coach will be happy to let me know when its time she moves on to the next coach :) !!

[Skittl1321]

Have you told your coach you would like her to focus on basic skills? I know for the youngest kids, because most young kids at low levels are in group lessons, a lot of private coaches are hired only to DO the programs (so they can compete), and thus lessons are based on the program and the "tricks" in the program. If the child continues in group lessons, that's where they will learn the "level" skills.

It might just be a difference in philosophy, or a misunderstanding of your expectations.

[littlekateskate]

Hmm. I guess, I have always thought the coach would know whats best for DD. Having not been a skater myself lol. I will email her :) haha We have a lesson tomorrow. And our next ISI competition isnt for a few months. So this should be a good time to work on the next level and forget about programs.

[jskater49]

I think you definately might want to make sure you are communicating clearly with your child's coach on expectations. It wasn't that long ago you were complaining on this forum how bored your child was doing crossovers after having learned higher level tricks. If you said that to the coach, she may have thought you wanted her to spend more time on her program since she was so bored in her group class.

j

[flippet]

Now if i could just really get her to concentrate on her basic basics.. The other thing that annoys me is that she will do things with my daughter that have no value. Like we all know its about impossible for a 4 year old to skate one foot while holding up there other foot in the air. My daughter cant hold a one foot glide long enough to even consider it. But she will spend five minutes on stupid stuff like that.


Okay, I'm confused.

You want the coach to 'concentrate on basics.'

Yet, you think that 'skating on one foot while holding the other one up' is of no value, and no 4-year-old can do it. (I can only assume that you mean a spiral...the way you describe it, it could be any number of things. I've seen many 4-year-olds with lovely age-appropriate spirals, by the way.)

You say your daughter can't hold a one-foot glide.


But you want your daughter to enter competitions? Exactly what, pray tell, will she be competing? Do they give out medals for who's the cutest little tyke out there, now? Seriously--if she can't even do a one-foot glide, then she certainly doesn't need to be entering competition after competition. That's of no value at this point, other than parental bragging rights, if you ask me.



Have you ever considered that whatever the coach is doing with your daughter, having her hold her other foot up--whatever, actually *is* 'working on the basics'? Have you asked the coach what the purpose of the exercise is?

It sounds to me like you need to do a LOT more communicating with the coach. You need to tell the coach what your expectations are, and then you need to stop and LISTEN as the coach tells you whether your expectations are reasonable or not. I've found that many, many parents who don't skate have expectations that are simply not possible, but because they are inexperienced, they just don't know that. You need to educate yourself here as well, and realize that at this point, the coach knows more about skating skills training than you do, and would probably be more than willing to share a bit of knowledge and understanding with you.

[littlekateskate]

ouch, lol.. That was harsh..

I dont know what the different elements are all called. That is why i am hear looking for advice. I dont know if the coach i have is a waste of my money or not. I dont want to go around the rink talking about her, and when she is mentioned other peoples eyes start to roll. And how do I know what she is telling me is reasonable.

Yes I want my daughter competiting. Its a great experience for her. No matter what level they are at the experience of being out there, memorizing a routine, and performing is great for them. And even if she was out there competing and couldnt do a one foot glide who cares. Its just important to a three year old who can only do swizzles to compete as it is to someone doing jumps or whatever it may be. Its still just as important to them to show off what they can do.

She can hold a one foot glide however she cant hold it long enough I dont believe to start to do random "tricks" on them. And yes I agree she has to at some point start to try new things or she will never learn them. But I would think learning things on her next test not four tests out would be time better spent.

I believe what she was working on was some sort of spiral (where you grab your ankle pull it up by your head and hold it while on on foot skating). She cant do that on the ground and she spent five minutes working on it on the ice. My daughter can do a simple spiral and an arabesque type thing but to me it seems like she needs to be working on things for tests that are a bit more reasonable.

But that was why I was here asking. Not because I am a stupid parent who knows nothing but one who is trying to get anothers opinion wether or not it was reasonable to even be trying these things. Maybe that really is one of the first things you learn when skating and are in Beta but that is why i am here asking

[Lmarletto]

OK, that one foot skating thing is a Bielmann spiral. Any kind of move that involves pulling your blade over your head is worth extra points in the IJS, so you'll see it a bazillion times on TV. As a consequence, it's also very popular at lower levels. Kids who could use serious work on their regular spiral position are already reaching back and grabbing their blades. My daughter started doing it as soon as she could manage it, not because a coach showed her, but because she saw it on TV and wanted to do it. I think it helped her balance on one foot a lot, mostly because she was much more motivated to practice something that personally interested her. Her coach put it in her programs as a standard spiral-Bielmann spiral sequence in order to "trick" her into practicing her standard forward spiral which she had zero interest in. I thought that was pretty clever.

Frankly, I think the value of performing in a competitive environment is way over-rated for little ones. It's way too easy for them to get the wrong messages about placement, doing their best and the real value of self-improvement.

[Tennisany1]

Hmm. I guess, I have always thought the coach would know whats best for DD. Having not been a skater myself lol. I will email her :) haha We have a lesson tomorrow. And our next ISI competition isnt for a few months. So this should be a good time to work on the next level and forget about programs.

Your coach may well know what is best for your daughter; however, if he / she has received mixed messages from you on what you think is important, she may be trying to teach the basics and keep YOU happy. Coaching is, afterall, a customer service industry and coaches do need to make a living. Ticking off the parents is not a great way to keep students. I really feel for coaches as often what they think is important is not what the parents want to see. I agree with whoever said that you should talk (not email) your daughter's coach. This is a great time of year to sit down and work out some goals and expectations as well as a budget for this year's lessons and ice time.

Now, I realize that the word "we" is often used when the person doesn't actually mean "we," (heck, I know I've done it) but it is actually your daughter's lessons and your daugther's competitions. She is only four and it is important to keep things in perspective - especially at this early age. There are great many talented four year olds who are "way ahead of their age group" but it is not surprising how many turn out to be perfectly normal eight and nine year olds! At this stage I would not worry too much about 5 minutes here or there in a lesson. If your daughter is enjoying herself and is feeling challenged without being overwhelmed, then just relax. There are lots of competitions next year and the next year. Just be happy she is active and has found a sport she enjoys.

[singerskates]

I suggest going to the USFS website and use your daugthers membership ID and password at the membersonly part of the site to find out on what the elements your daughter would be working at her level. Skate Canada http://www.skatecanada.ca (http://www.skatecanada.ca) has a section on our website called Glossary and you don't have to go through the membersonly website to look through it. But what your daughter is most likely working on is Learn To Skate stuff, like what we call here CanSkate.

You could also go to a bookstore and buy a book for beginning Figure Skaters. You can find many books on skating at this website;
http://www.figureskating.net/#beginners

Figure Skating School
Author: Peter Morrissey, James Young
Published By: Firefly Books
ISBN: 155209166X

The book Figure Skating School has the very basics in it with good discriptions and goes from just skating forwards all the way to doing axels, spins and more.

Another good book is called Figure Skating For Dummies. Olympic Gold Medalist Kristi Yamaguchi Takes You for a Spin Through the World of Figure Skating!Distinguish a toe loop from a Lutz, an Axel, or a SalchowDiscover how skaters select their music, choreography, and costumesUnderstand the judging and scoring of the short and long programsSelect the best boots and skates for every budgetLocate a practice rink and coach to fit your needsGet into skating shape with tips from Kristi's Olympic training regimenUnderstand the differences between amateur and professional skaters.

Figure Skating For Dummies
Author: Kristi Yamaguchi
Published By: John Wiley & Sons
ISBN: 0764550845