rink incident

[AuroraBorealis]

I witnessed the following at a skating rink:

A female adult skater, let’s name her Jane, was guest-skating on a fairly busy session, which combined learning children (at one end), some people practicing dance patterns, a couple or two practicing pairs moves (death spirals), plus the usual spinning and jumping. Some people were taking lessons, but most were not.
I am using the term “guest skating” loosely, because this rink does not appear to have a membership structure and everyone who was there was there on the same basis as Jane: arrive, pay admission, skate.

All the jumping was being one on one of the ends, and that’s where Jane practiced her jumps. She was practicing singles, huge ones with lots of height and speed coming out, definitely not learner’s jumps. At one point, she and another female skater (that one was working on double axels) did jumps very close together. It looked as if someone else had cut off Jane from the spot where she was doing her jumping, and she placed her jump elsewhere because there was noone else there. The second skater came at very high speed and it seemed that the she had seen Jane but still jumped (maybe a couple of seconds after Jane), even though they were very close to each other.

Jane heard someone yell just when she was landing, and she probably noticed the other skater jumping. Either way, she stopped dead in her tracks to avoid a collision. The two skaters bumped into each other with their bottoms, but with hardly any impact. Neither fell, neither was hurt and both resumed their thing.

A short while later, some guy started yelling at Jane, asking her to come over. Turned out that he was the coach of the other skater, and he said something about this being the jumping end. Jane was clearly puzzled by this comment, and said that jumping was exactly what she was doing. He told her that people are doing double jumps, that she can do the singles “over there”. The “over there” that he was pointing to was the learner’s end, where rink rules forbid both spinning and jumping.

Jane moved to an empty area in centre-ice, which is the area designated for spinning. She focused on practicing flying sits and change sits. Maybe 5 minutes later, another coach yells at Jane to move over somewhere else, because he’s giving a lesson and his own skater needs to practice in the spot Jane is in because his skater has a camel spin planned right there in their program.

The request itself was very reasonable, obviously. However, Jane clearly did not appreciate being shuffled about like that. A rather heated discussion ensued, with the coach claiming that he “had asked nicely” and that the area was not for spinning practice anyway (rink rules specify it as such). Jane told him that she had paid the admittance fee and had the same right to use the ice as anyone else there and that she was not going to agree to being shuffled about every few minutes just because she was a guest/does not have a coach there. The coach kept on going about how he had “asked her nicely” and how he could invoke his status to have Jane removed from the ice.

I would like to hear some opinions on this whole situation. Not so much about Jane's actions (whether she was right to argue and so on), but the situation in general and the treatment of Jane as a guest skater, especially in a situation where she had followed the rink rules specifying where spins/jumps were to be practiced.

[Debbie S]

Well, the request was reasonable, and skaters in lessons do have the right of way. However, I have rarely seen coaches actually ask skaters to move, particularly if they were there first (you didn't specify if Jane was spinning before the coach and student moved to the area). Now, coaches will call out to other skaters if they are in the way of their skater's program, dance, or moves pattern (assuming the skater doing the program/dance/moves pattern is in lesson) and the skaters just move toward the wall (or to another area) for a few seconds to let the other skater pass. And even if both skaters aren't in lesson, you'll see skaters yielding if another skater is about to jump, or is in a program, or practicing a move.

Even when everyone is following the rules and being courteous, there are still going to be space conflicts, and IMO it's best for coaches and skaters to diffuse the situation rather than fan the flames. Although the coach was rude in telling Jane to move (b/c really, unless his student was running through her program, she could have practiced the spin anywhere), it would have been best for her to comply and then address her concerns later with the skating director or rink mgmt.

IMO, it doesn't matter whether a skater has a coach at a rink - everyone pays the same amount of money and they do have the right to get their practice in, but rules that give skaters in lesson the right of way also apply. If the situation happened to me, I'd probably just not skate at that rink anymore (if it was a rink where I didn't usually skate).

[SynchroSk8r114]

Hmmm, complicating...:??

The way I see it is that everyone on that ice paid to use the whole ice - not just a corner or a small patch of ice. It sounds as though everyone on the ice knew that certain areas were designated for certain manuevers, such as jump, spins, and so on.

As the previous poster mentioned, skaters on lesson do have priority, but that still doesn't give any coach the right to yell and cause a huge commotion like what happened to Jane. If, in fact, the request for her to move was done so nicely, there's nothing left to say about this. Jane should move, respect the fact that someone else was on lesson, and basically get over it. If she can't get past the fact that that's the way things are run at that rink (even if those "rules" aren't specifically and explicitly stated) or cannot tolerate the coaches and other skaters there, then Jane's probably better off skating somewhere else.

Interesting that you mention she's an adult skater. I wonder if the same thing would have happened to a younger skater...

[jskater49]

I think perhaps if Jane hadn't been yelled at about the jumping incident, incident she might have been more tolerant about being "asked nicely" to move the second time.

However, it sounds like a very hostile and unfriendly place and I'd find another place to skate if it happened to me.

j

[AuroraBorealis]

Thanks for your input. :)

What I found very upsetting about this incident, was the fact that Jane was basically being told that she cannot practice. I mean, how would you feel if you were doing your thing, and someone told you to go elsewhere, and then the whole situation repeated yourself? Especially when the people were telling you that you were "in a wrong spot" for the kind of moves you were doing.

I'm not 100$% sure, but I think that Jane was doing her spins and the coach was giving a lesson nearby, and then suddenly he wanted his student to do her spin right where Jane was. So it would seem like Jane was first.

The request wasn't unreasonable, and I know that I'd have no problem moving if it had been me and it was just this request. But I think Jane got really frustrated because she was getting shuffled about like that - "you can't do your jumps here because my students are doing double axels here", and then 5 minutes later "you have to move because my student needs to do her spin in this spot." I do admit that she got a bit disrputive with her protesting, but at the same time the coach seemed totally unresponsive to her complaint that she was getting shuffled about and coudln't practice as a result of that. For him it was "I asked you nicely", as in, I asked you nicely so you have to comply.

I imagine that if this had been a younger skater, s/he would have complained to their parents who would then bring this up with the club or coaches. But it also seems that because Jane was a guest there, she had noone to support her.

Jskater, yes, I think that if she hadn't been yelled at about the jumping (which was totally undeserved, IMO), all this would have unfolded differently.

[kayskate]

When you say she was a guest and mention that she did not know anybody there, I am assuming she is not a regular and is maybe considering skating at this rink or is looking for additional places to practice. Why was she there? Not that she needs a specific reason, but it affects how I would react if I were in Jane's shoes.

Sounds like the coaches are not very considerate. Asking nicely is one thing, but having to ask at all is another. if the student was not doing a program, the coach should not have done anything but train her skater elsewhere.

If Jane is looking for a home rink and there are other reasonable options, she should explore them. OTOH, this may have been a freak incident. Was the rink crowded? maybe the same rink at another time would be completely different.

If Jane is looking for alternate places to skate, this place could do in a pinch now that she knows what to expect. She may have been taken by surprise if she is used to a more relaxed atmosphere.

If she is looking for a coach, she should be able to expect absolute right of way on a lesson at this place. However, i would not be comfortable with coaches treating other skaters this way on my behalf. I expect all of us who skate FS know the basic guidelines and will be courteous w/o being told. I am assuming from how you described Jane's skills, she is an experienced skater.

If jane just went to this rink on a lark or while traveling, chalk it up to experience. Not a friendly place.

Kay

[Paulie86]

I experienced a similar situation many years ago when I began skating. I was at a fairly quiet session and I was practicing down the very end using the last of the hockey lines. A higher level skater and her coach (both who I had never seen there before or since) where practicing and they where using the whole ice. Now i know skater's in lessons have right of way so whenever I saw her coming I got out of her way as quick as I could. She may have had to shorten the length of a few things maybe one or two times because I couldn't get completely out of her way quick enough, but her coach yelled at me telling me to get out of the way and couldn't I see they were practicing there! I was young and innocent at the time so I moved until my coach (who was in a different lesson at the time) came and spoke to the coach telling him that I was doing the right thing.


Looking back at it now, I think the coach was very arrogant and used to getting his own way. My opinion now is, if you respect other skaters, they will respect you. If you dont, be prepared for the consequences.

Now in the case of Jane, I think both coaches were fair to ask her to move, but dissagree with how. And the first coach who told her to move to the beginners section needs a wake up call. If that area of the rink was for jumping, then she had every right to jump there no matter what level of jumps she was doing. Both could've asked her just to move when they saw their skaters coming. I think thats fair to both skaters.

[WeirFan06]

Woh, these rinks sound intense!! At my rinks everybody pretty much just watches out for one another. If you miss a jump because someone else is there, you just go around and do it again. Maybe you get a little exasperated if it happens a bunch of times... but mostly you just skate around and try again. And besides the "lutz corners" there aren't specific areas for different elements. Occasionally there's a (what we sometimes consider) tempermental skater or two who are known for yelling "MOOOOOOVE!" when they're coming through doing their programs (mostly that just makes me laugh a little, lol), but besides that, I guess most of our skaters and coaches are just pretty much respectful of one another. I feel lucky now after reading the "Jane" story!!!

[dooobedooo]

I think it's partly just the rink regulars' primitive tribal pack instinct coming into play: "Oh, look, there's an outsider - let's pick a victim!" And it doesn't just happen in rinks :?? ...

Jane probably knows all this and is smiling gracefully through above the whole thing. All she has to do is patiently come a few times, and they'll start to accept her.

[Award]

If I was a regular at the rink and if I had witnessed that incident, I would have probably backed Jane and I probably would have told the coach to watch his manners. And I would also probably have told the coach that 'how the hell are newcomers supposed to know which part of the rink is for what if there are no signs that indicate it!?' ...... then probably would proceed to tell him to take a hike if he tried to push the issue.

[Sonic]

I've heard many a story of inconsiderate skaters and petty coaches, but this one really beggars belief.

Quite frankly, my 'take' on the situation is I hope Jane goes and skates at another rink, as the one in the story clearly doesn't deserve her custom.

Sj xxx

[*JennaD*]

There used to be a coach at my rink who would have his own "section" of the rink for his skaters...he wouldn't yell at you to get out of there if you were doing a program or something, but would stare at you and eventually make you movei f you were just practicing. After a while, everyone was downright scared to enter the coach;s "section: so we just stayed out of it...aand used the other half of the ice.

I guess this kind of thing happens all the time in rinks... but if Jane paid to be there, she has just as much right to use the ice as the other skaters. It all really depends how she was asked to move, I guess. Being yelled at is definitely not acceptable. If she was politely asked to move for someone doing a program, that is totally fair in my opinion (if the skater was coming there in a few seconds...if they were a few minutes away I guess things would be different..).

But, I hope Jane decides to skate somewhere else next time..because this rink didn't seem to have too nice of an atmosphere and the people therea rent' exactly friendly from what I understand! lol and skating is about fun :) so if the rink isnt fun, then change rinks :) lol that would be my theory :)

[blackmanskating]

I witnessed the following at a skating rink:

A female adult skater, let’s name her Jane, was guest-skating on a fairly busy session, which combined learning children (at one end), some people practicing dance patterns, a couple or two practicing pairs moves (death spirals), plus the usual spinning and jumping. Some people were taking lessons, but most were not.
I am using the term “guest skating” loosely, because this rink does not appear to have a membership structure and everyone who was there was there on the same basis as Jane: arrive, pay admission, skate.

All the jumping was being one on one of the ends, and that’s where Jane practiced her jumps. She was practicing singles, huge ones with lots of height and speed coming out, definitely not learner’s jumps. At one point, she and another female skater (that one was working on double axels) did jumps very close together. It looked as if someone else had cut off Jane from the spot where she was doing her jumping, and she placed her jump elsewhere because there was noone else there. The second skater came at very high speed and it seemed that the she had seen Jane but still jumped (maybe a couple of seconds after Jane), even though they were very close to each other.

Jane heard someone yell just when she was landing, and she probably noticed the other skater jumping. Either way, she stopped dead in her tracks to avoid a collision. The two skaters bumped into each other with their bottoms, but with hardly any impact. Neither fell, neither was hurt and both resumed their thing.

A short while later, some guy started yelling at Jane, asking her to come over. Turned out that he was the coach of the other skater, and he said something about this being the jumping end. Jane was clearly puzzled by this comment, and said that jumping was exactly what she was doing. He told her that people are doing double jumps, that she can do the singles “over there”. The “over there” that he was pointing to was the learner’s end, where rink rules forbid both spinning and jumping.

Jane moved to an empty area in centre-ice, which is the area designated for spinning. She focused on practicing flying sits and change sits. Maybe 5 minutes later, another coach yells at Jane to move over somewhere else, because he’s giving a lesson and his own skater needs to practice in the spot Jane is in because his skater has a camel spin planned right there in their program.

The request itself was very reasonable, obviously. However, Jane clearly did not appreciate being shuffled about like that. A rather heated discussion ensued, with the coach claiming that he “had asked nicely” and that the area was not for spinning practice anyway (rink rules specify it as such). Jane told him that she had paid the admittance fee and had the same right to use the ice as anyone else there and that she was not going to agree to being shuffled about every few minutes just because she was a guest/does not have a coach there. The coach kept on going about how he had “asked her nicely” and how he could invoke his status to have Jane removed from the ice.

I would like to hear some opinions on this whole situation. Not so much about Jane's actions (whether she was right to argue and so on), but the situation in general and the treatment of Jane as a guest skater, especially in a situation where she had followed the rink rules specifying where spins/jumps were to be practiced.

The one thing I love about my rink is that there are 3 sheets of ice. They also organize freestyle sessions based on skating level. So you have to be at a certain skating level or higher to skate on a particular session, so a person working on singles is hardly ever mixed with someone working on doubles or triples. They even set aside ice dancing sessions, Pair skating and National competitors. If there were enough Adult skaters, I'm sure they would make a 21 and over session just for adult skaters. But I understand that most rinks are not this versatile. It seems like your rink is all about making money so they have no regard for who they put on the ice as long as they fill it up. I think this is something management should work to change. A lot of folks think they should own the ice just because they do doubles/triples. That may be why I made sure I learned my double jumps as fast as I did just to get some respect. But if that rink has a comment box or if you can speak to a manager, I would suggest that you/Jane do so. Because it sounds like there were too many people on that freestyle session to begin with.



BlackManSkating

[AuroraBorealis]

To give more info, this happens to be the only rink (in a fairly large city), and I guess they feel that they don't have enough skaters to divide the figure skating sessions into levels. They also don't seem to have (or apply) any rules for limiting numbers. The only rules are about the ice suface being divided into learner's end, jumping and and spinning area in the centre. It gets extremely crowded, and the end result is people learning to skate (kids and adults), practice jumps, spins, footwork, field moves, dance patterns, synchro and pairs all at the same time.

On top of this, it's not a friendly place at all. I have stopped skating there because of the atmosphere, and only go to watch some people from time to tome, which is how I witnessed this incident and met Jane.

At the time, Jane was in that area for a few weeks only and was very happy about the opportunity to skate. She said that she'd never skate there again after this. However, now it turns out that she has to move to that city permanently (for school), so it's either suck up and skate there, or no skating at all. What would you do?

BlackManSkating, I too hate people who consider themselves better (better skaters or better people) just because they can do doubles!

[Joan]

Did she write a letter of complaint to the rink management? Although this likely would have minimal impact on the rink policies for one letter, if this problem represented a pattern and everyone who was victimized by the atmosphere complained to the rink management, something might eventually change.