Double Axel Warm-up Tips

[WhisperSung]

Hey everyone,

I'm starting to work on my double axel (for the second time. . .apparently when I had it at 14 back in 1996, it didn't stick :frus:), and I'm wondering if anyone has any good tips for warm-ups to the jump.

So far I'm doing as follows:

-Double axels on the ground

-Back spins, kick outs with arms held in until after the leg kicks out

-Axels from stand-still (my coach mentioned trying to bend the free knee back and to jump so that it immediately goes into the backspin position. . .apparently I swing my freeleg too much which doesn't affect single axels but apparently will kill me on my double attempts)

-Axels landing in a quick-moving back spin (after several attempts where I nearly whip-lashed my body into the ice from being offbalance, I think I've got it).

I'm moving soon, so I don't have any more skating lessons, and I'm wondering if anyone knows any other tips. I tend to wrap my leg badly when I'm thinking about going into a double axel, but when I work on the axel-back spins, I've seen video of me rotating two full times, coming down forward and then going into the backspin, which almost seems like a cheated double axel (and makes me probably happier than it should).

Thanks in advance. I'm determined to have a clean double axel one day and refuse to think I can't do this. :)

[blackmanskating]

That would make two of us WhisperSung. I started working on double axels a month or so ago, and I am determined to land this thing cleanly. I haven't been skating as long as you, so you probably have the upper hand as far as experience is concerned. Here are some of the training that I do to prepare for the double axel: axel-loop combinations, backspins with a fast check-out, backspin into a double loop, axel-backspin-single loop (strong check out). I do some training on the jump harness to get used to the snap that double axels cause. :giveup: But it's just for muscle memory.

Again, I have only been skating for a little over a year and half, but this is what works well for me. I can fully rotate the jump but I fall on the landing, so my training exercises revolve around strong landings. But I hope this helps.


BlackManSkating

[*JennaD*]

I am barely landing a single axel, but some kids at my club are working on their double axels, and I've seen them doing axel-loop-loop-double loop combos and things like that a lot!

[WhisperSung]

Thanks for the advice, you guys!

BlackManSkating: I've been reading your posts, and I'm thoroughly impressed with your progress in skating! If I had that talent, I'd be doing quintuple jumps with the length of time I've been skating in my life ;)

My main problem is a tendency to wrap my axel, double loop, and double flip jumps. There's almost NO way to land a double axel with a wrap, so I've been really trying to get myself into a tighter back spin position when I'm practicing the jump.

As of yet, I'm not 2.5 times around before I come down. I think it's closer to 2 or 2.25 times around, but I'm still working on it. I find it funny that I can get 3 full revs on my triple salchow (before falling on my butt!), but 2.5 revs on the double axel is really hard for me. I think this jump requires more strength since you have to kick through on your own.

I've been trying to watch videos of senior skaters in slow-motion during their double axels to get an idea of how the rotation happens, and I think I see the connection (where most of the jump up and then at the first half rotation, they just snap into that tight backspin position). Now it's just about putting what I see into action!

I have a friend who's similar to you. He's been skating longer, but he basically taught himself jumps through double lutz (I've seen him attempt double axel and triple toe but never actual landings). His goal is to compete in the Championship Gold event next year and win it. I think since the cut-off for jumps is through the double loop, he thinks he has the competition locked, but I did mention that he's going to have some competition if you get through your gold tests in time, too. Either way, good luck all around! I wish I could go to AN next year, but I'll be in my first year of law school, so I'll have to postpone it until I get out. :lol:

[Verena]

Hi all!

I was working on the single axel (before the rink closed some time ago)... But I am wondering: both of you that ae trying a double axel on the ice, you say that you can do a double axel on the ground... So this means that it is easier to do a double axel on the ground than on the ice??? It cant be, beacuse there is much more friction on the ground than on the ice. Personally, in the good times I have up to two revolutions on a ground axel (so I need half more for the double..), but I think this is just that I am more brave on the ground, and not that it is easier. When I am on theice I feel I need good technique but less strength than on the ground. Do you think it has to do with whether you are a man or a woman?
Also, other people I have seen training for the double or even the triple axel are trying to do delayed axels, or axels with an open free leg..

Cheers!

[blackmanskating]

Hi all!

I was working on the single axel (before the rink closed some time ago)... But I am wondering: both of you that ae trying a double axel on the ice, you say that you can do a double axel on the ground... So this means that it is easier to do a double axel on the ground than on the ice??? It cant be, beacuse there is much more friction on the ground than on the ice. Personally, in the good times I have up to two revolutions on a ground axel (so I need half more for the double..), but I think this is just that I am more brave on the ground, and not that it is easier. When I am on theice I feel I need good technique but less strength than on the ground. Do you think it has to do with whether you are a man or a woman?
Also, other people I have seen training for the double or even the triple axel are trying to do delayed axels, or axels with an open free leg..

Cheers!

Hey Verena!!!! I wouldn't say that a double axel is easier on the ground because you don't get as much of a running start at it like when you are on the ice. But in my opinion, they are harder to rotate, but easier to land off ice because you have a larger margin of error on a sneaker compared to a blade. Doing it off ice makes me more confident in attempting it on ice. So that's why I do more of them off ice.

As far as delayed axels; I did practice delayed axels in the beginning when I was having trouble pulling in tightly to rotate quickly. Now that I pull in fast enough, my coach doesn't like to keep training delayed axels because he believes that it teaches me to wait too long before snapping into rotation. As soon as I started rotating sooner, I got closer and closer to completing the revolutions. I'm having problems landing the jump so working on delayed axels at this point would be a little counterproductive. However, it might be beneficial for WhisperSung because it would force her to get rid of the wrap.


As of yet, I'm not 2.5 times around before I come down. I think it's closer to 2 or 2.25 times around, but I'm still working on it. I find it funny that I can get 3 full revs on my triple salchow (before falling on my butt!), but 2.5 revs on the double axel is really hard for me. I think this jump requires more strength since you have to kick through on your own.


You can rotate a triple sal with a wrap??? That is amazing. :bow: I've never attempted any triple. Although, I have over-rotated my double salchow and was doing 2.5 rotations. I was landing forward and falling. But that is off the chain!

BlackManSkating

[WhisperSung]

BlackManSkating: haha, no! I only wrap my axel, 2loop, and 2flip. My 2sal, 2toe, and 2lutz have nice in-air positions. No idea why. :P

And for me, I think the double axel is easier on the ground, because if I accidently lose my balance, I can still pull it off. If I lose my balance in the air on the ice, I'm on my butt (or worse!) in a flash.

[blackmanskating]

Hey WhisperSung!!!!!! Maybe you could help me out with my double lutz position because I am definitely have a leg wrap on that one. I'm barely making the rotations because of it. I've only landed 2 relatively clean double lutzs. I hate that jump with a firey passion!!! I'm working hard at it. There are times I feel like the lutz is harder than the axel for me.

BlackManSkating

[kander]

Have you tried a jump harness? It's amazing what you're capable of doing when you don't have to worry about killing yourself.

[WhisperSung]

BlackManSkating: To be honest, the double lutz is my only inconsistent jump (other than the 2axel, of course! ;)). I've only just started learning it.

Here's what my coach has told me to do. Hopefully it'll give you some ideas to try:

1) Do half lutzes, focusing on drawing together your feet before taking off.
2) Do lutzes with the same focus in mind (then do lutz-loops and lutz-double loops to feel the weight transfer)
3) Do lutz and a halfs with that same draw-together technique. Land forward with your left arm leading. That way you feel the rotation but don't have to fret about landing on one foot backwards.

For the actual lutz, my coach reminds me that this is essentially just a double loop with a toe pick in front. When you take off, make sure your arms aren't overrotating (pre-rotation of the arms is what tends to cause the wrapping in my double flip). Let your lower body do the work and just pull your arms in from the take-off position to the air position. You don't need to swing them at all to muscle through the jump.

Also, as I mentioned before, remember to draw your feet together. If you don't, that might cause a wrap, too (this is what happens on my 2loop. . .I don't cross my feet before the take-off, so I get half a rotation until my free leg hits my landing leg and it gets stuck in a wrap by default because it wasn't in the right place during the take-off).

Also remember that there's weight transfer. If you take-off on that outside edge and never transfer your weight into the double loop position, you're going to end up landing on your left leg instead of your landing leg (this assumes you rotate counterclockwise). That's why my coach insists on doing so many lutz double loop combos before trying the 2 lutz. She wants to make sure my weight has transfered back far enough.

Good luck to you! Today I tried 4 double lutzes. I landed the first 2, fell on the 3, and barely held onto the 4th. 3/4? I'll take it compared to what I normally get. This is a difficult jump to learn! :lol:

(also, I *think* I was landing cheated double axels today, but I don't know. I was at a stand-still, just jumping axels into backspins, and I started catching my heal and finding my body just trying to pull the landing through. I assume it was about 2.25 revs before my foot came down. . .I've found it's impossible to initiate the backspins position when I do this. . .maybe I'm actually getting most of my backspin in the air beforehand. Then again, I might just be doing overrotated axels. I'm going to need a video camera to know for sure!)

[blackmanskating]

BlackManSkating: To be honest, the double lutz is my only inconsistent jump (other than the 2axel, of course! ;)). I've only just started learning it.

Here's what my coach has told me to do. Hopefully it'll give you some ideas to try:

1) Do half lutzes, focusing on drawing together your feet before taking off.
2) Do lutzes with the same focus in mind (then do lutz-loops and lutz-double loops to feel the weight transfer)
3) Do lutz and a halfs with that same draw-together technique. Land forward with your left arm leading. That way you feel the rotation but don't have to fret about landing on one foot backwards.

For the actual lutz, my coach reminds me that this is essentially just a double loop with a toe pick in front. When you take off, make sure your arms aren't overrotating (pre-rotation of the arms is what tends to cause the wrapping in my double flip). Let your lower body do the work and just pull your arms in from the take-off position to the air position. You don't need to swing them at all to muscle through the jump.

Also, as I mentioned before, remember to draw your feet together. If you don't, that might cause a wrap, too (this is what happens on my 2loop. . .I don't cross my feet before the take-off, so I get half a rotation until my free leg hits my landing leg and it gets stuck in a wrap by default because it wasn't in the right place during the take-off).

Also remember that there's weight transfer. If you take-off on that outside edge and never transfer your weight into the double loop position, you're going to end up landing on your left leg instead of your landing leg (this assumes you rotate counterclockwise). That's why my coach insists on doing so many lutz double loop combos before trying the 2 lutz. She wants to make sure my weight has transfered back far enough.

Good luck to you! Today I tried 4 double lutzes. I landed the first 2, fell on the 3, and barely held onto the 4th. 3/4? I'll take it compared to what I normally get. This is a difficult jump to learn! :lol:

(also, I *think* I was landing cheated double axels today, but I don't know. I was at a stand-still, just jumping axels into backspins, and I started catching my heal and finding my body just trying to pull the landing through. I assume it was about 2.25 revs before my foot came down. . .I've found it's impossible to initiate the backspins position when I do this. . .maybe I'm actually getting most of my backspin in the air beforehand. Then again, I might just be doing overrotated axels. I'm going to need a video camera to know for sure!)

Thanks for the suggestions!!! I'm going to run these by my coach and see what he thinks. Who knows? Maybe I'll have a consistent Double lutz soon.


BlackManSkating

[WhisperSung]

No problem! If you coach has other suggestions you don't mind sharing, let me know! My coach tends to be very by the books (not sure what books she's reading, though :lol:). She's really helped get my doubles consistent.

Now I wish I were going to AN next year so I could cheer you on! We're the double lutz fan club ;) Maybe in 3 years once I'm done with law school.