Students and 'Tricks'

[Isk8NYC]

Since we're about to break from group lessons and camps, I thought I'd get a head start on planning for new classes for the Fall. I always teach to the curriculum, and I find incredible skill gaps in the students when new classes form. Moving them to another group when their skills are above/below works, but often the problem is that the students really belong in that group, but they have no mastery of the "tough stuff" that's hard to learn, plus they've learned the "fun stuff" from that level and the higher levels so they're bored.

That's caused by coaches that don't know/follow the curriculum and want to be heroes/friends to the skaters. (In several cases, I know it's because the coaches wanted the student on private lessons.) These coaches gloss over the foundation skills and skip around in the LTS curriculums to focus on the elements everyone wants to learn. I've had kids in Basic 4 that couldn't do decent crossovers but could slam their foot on the ice and do a Quasimodo-style backward lunge. (Hurt my knees to watch.)

For example, I inevitably find that there are 2 kids in each class that can "do" waltz jumps and one-foot spins. Badly. Because they can't do edges or three turns and have no control over their body parts. LOL :frus: :frus:

These kids often come into the class with an attitude of "I'm above all that." They shut down and give you dirty looks/start crying when you try to explain that they NEED back outside edges to hold their landings and that 3-turns are soooo important for spins and jumps, not to mention footwork. They just want to learn tricks and hear how wonderful they are at skating.

I had one girl tell me that her mother wanted me to 'focus on jumps' in a group freestyle class. No mohawks, footwork, or spins. I gave her my stock answer: "Tell it to the Skating School Director." The other kids in the class want/need to work on those things and I felt (but didn't say) that it's wrong to direct what will/will not be taught in a group lesson. If they want to run the show, take privates with someone other than me! BTW, this girl can't spin more than two revs but is working on a Toe Waltz. :frus:

How do other coaches start off the new season of group lessons?
Any suggestions on how to manage clases with these type of students?

[Mrs Redboots]

Our system requires you to have passed each Skate-UK level before you start the next. The snag, of course, is that it is the coaches who do the testing, and while some coaches will not pass you unless you can do the move recognisably (at the lowest level, of course), others will move you up if you show signs of knowing what the move is! Mind you, some coaches will move the adults up ("because you know you still need to practice, and will do so") but not the kids...

All the same, if you can tell the parents that X has to stay in your class because s/he hasn't yet passed all the elements at that level, it's quite a help!

[slusher]

How do other coaches start off the new season of group lessons?
Any suggestions on how to manage clases with these type of students?

oh I'm going to make Skate Canada happy when I say this:

Circuits.

I so hated them when I was learning how to coach, but in this case they would be quite useful. I would set up a progression circuit, basically the kids skate around in a square, or a circle or some sort of ice-covering shape and at certain points they do part of the element until at the end of the circuit they do the whole thing. Then immediately start back on the circuit again.
So let's say I want to make a toe loop circuit. I'd start with (and this is where it gets tricky laying it out because kids jump both ways), an inside three turn, then back to forward 2 foot jumps on a curve, skate backwards, just crosscuts, and hold landing position (BO edge) a couple of times, then skate backwards, stick the toe in and land in landing position (no rotation), waltz jump, then toe loop station to finish. Start again.

Kids that can do the three turn, the 2 foot jumps and hold the landing edge get held up at that circuit station and might have to do it two or three times. As a coach I might position myself in that area. So some kids might rush through the circuit to get to the "toe loop" they can do, but the point of a circuit is to learn all of the pieces. Kids will rat on each other if someone doesn't do the station. :P

[Laura H]

Well, this answer will be more from a parent's point of view, obviously. My son's current coach also taught the LTS classes and constantly ran into the same thing - I once saw her make the freestyle kids spend most of a session on "basics" i.e. back crossovers on a figure 8 - she ended up catching flack for it from at least one of the parents. . . who apparently felt they had paid good money to see the kids "jump" or "spin" :frus: (but as she put it - there were some of them that had REALLY weak crossovers - they needed the practice!!!) Now obviously, that shouldn't be the case at that level (FS1 and up). I'm more of the opinion - the foundation has GOT to be there before moving on.

What this particular coach usually did - she started out with the "basics" for warm up and she always made the kids start out with the waltz jump when they moved on to jumping (which ALWAYS caused rolled eyes) but she would just stand firm and say "let me see that and then you can move on to work on the other jumps!"

[littlekateskate]

Its funny you posted this. I was irritated at our new rink because in the lessons they only did the four elements for that level. My daughter is bored to tears.. You can only do crossovers for so long. She used to do lunges, spirals, ect to spice it up and give the kids a little break. And now she isnt getting to do those things. I dont know what i am going to do because she looses intrest in the group classes now. And i dont want to stick soley with privates lol. :)

[Tennisany1]

Its funny you posted this. I was irritated at our new rink because in the lessons they only did the four elements for that level. My daughter is bored to tears.. You can only do crossovers for so long. She used to do lunges, spirals, ect to spice it up and give the kids a little break. And now she isnt getting to do those things. I dont know what i am going to do because she looses intrest in the group classes now. And i dont want to stick soley with privates lol. :)

This is a perfect example of why the director at your daughter's rink probably didn't want her in this class. I'm not being snarky or nasty, (and I'm just using your situation as an example) it is just that many young kids have great focus when it comes to the things they like to do, but it takes a bit more maturity to handle practicing over and over again the "boring basics." Classes for preschoolers need to be structured differently in order to compensate for this. Classes for school age kids can spend more time on less exciting things and the amount of time increases as the child gets older.

Sorry I've got a bit off topic; anywho... I see the the problems that are mentioned in the initial post at one rink my daughter skates at. I always feel sorry for the coaches that insist that the elements and skills be learn correctly because they are, more often than not, given a bad rap by the parents and kids. The coaches that work on the "fun" stuff are always in demand ... until the child get up to a level where they really need the basics to succeed. Then the parents is paying for lots of lessons so their child can learn the stuff they should have mastered a long time ago. I don't have any suggestions for how to handle the situation, but I just wanted you to know that some of us parents really appreciate the focus on getting the basics down before moving onto the tricks. Good luck!

[jskater49]

Here, on the last day of the LTS session, you get to learn some fun stuff from the next level, whether you passed or not. But not until the last day.

j

[twokidsskatemom]

This is a perfect example of why the director at your daughter's rink probably didn't want her in this class. I'm not being snarky or nasty, (and I'm just using your situation as an example) it is just that many young kids have great focus when it comes to the things they like to do, but it takes a bit more maturity to handle practicing over and over again the "boring basics." Classes for preschoolers need to be structured differently in order to compensate for this. Classes for school age kids can spend more time on less exciting things and the amount of time increases as the child gets older.

Sorry I've got a bit off topic; anywho... I see the the problems that are mentioned in the initial post at one rink my daughter skates at. I always feel sorry for the coaches that insist that the elements and skills be learn correctly because they are, more often than not, given a bad rap by the parents and kids. The coaches that work on the "fun" stuff are always in demand ... until the child get up to a level where they really need the basics to succeed. Then the parents is paying for lots of lessons so their child can learn the stuff they should have mastered a long time ago. I don't have any suggestions for how to handle the situation, but I just wanted you to know that some of us parents really appreciate the focus on getting the basics down before moving onto the tricks. Good luck!
Amen !! cant say more!

[Isk8NYC]

Its funny you posted this. I was irritated at our new rink because in the lessons they only did the four elements for that level. My daughter is bored to tears.. You can only do crossovers for so long. She used to do lunges, spirals, ect to spice it up and give the kids a little break. And now she isnt getting to do those things. I dont know what i am going to do because she looses intrest in the group classes now. And i dont want to stick soley with privates lol. :)Thank you - that's exactly my point.

Beta elements are stroking, crossovers and t-stops. That's it. It's not a beastly test, but it includes all essential, vital things to learn correctly NOW. Most kids pass beta in one group lesson session. These are difficult-to-master elements that require tons of practice and corrections, which is what the group instructor is trying to manage. Yet, your last instructor introduced elements that your daughter shouldn't be working on (in group lessons) for at least two levels of testing! (Lunges are in Delta, Spirals in Freestyle 1.)

You were smart to move over to a school that takes learning seriously instead of glossing over skills. That explains why the director was reluctant to put your daughter in Beta - s/he doesn't have confidence in the level of teaching in your old rink. I just hope your daughter isn't bored when she reaches Delta or Freestyle 1 and has to work on the lunges and spirals she's been doing since Alpha. LOL BTW, no one EVER stops learning and practicing crossovers - ask any of our members. You can always do them better/faster/stronger. LOL

There are better ways to keep kids entertained and still learning appropriate things while teaching group lessons, but it requires an instructor who actually cares about teaching students. For example, I use a lean-and-glide drill for forward crossovers that is a bit scary, but lots of fun, once they really get the idea. My drill builds control, balance, position, edges, and strength. Much better than introducing things too early. That's a cop-out on the instructor's part - it's "busy work" that uses up class time with little/no effort from the instructor because the kids can't master the element anyway at that level.

Here, on the last day of the LTS session, you get to learn some fun stuff from the next level, whether you passed or not. But not until the last day.There's nothing wrong with that, I do teach "up" through the session but mainly on the last day. It helps prepare the student for the next level. I always explain why we need to learn the 'boring' stuff first. Outside three turns go with an upright spin demo, inside 3's with footwork or a toe loop jump. Mohawks are for split jumps - gets them every time. It's when you start skipping more than 1-2 levels that it becomes an issue.

[twokidsskatemom]

I realize your daughter is young. But part of skating IS working on boring stuff every day !!Ask any skater is does MTF as a part of warm up. Everyone wants to learn new things and just work on things they like. But they also work on boring old edges, stroking, crossovers even at Senior level. At 3, 4, 5 and 6, then dont have the muscles for the very fancy stuff.Its will be alot of boring stuff.
I dont mean to be a downer but it really is such a huge part of skating.
I agree with the idea of one thing leads to another. Dips are for shoot the ducks, shoot the ducks are for sit spins. Everyone works on things at a higher level but there is a huge difference in skating when you really learn the correct way .