Adult Committee Term Limits

[lovepairs]

Blue111Moon,

Out of curiosity where in the Rule Book did it say that the term rotations to serve on the Adult Committee was (1) year with a (3) year renewal? Please cite the page number. I'd be very interested in reading this, because on page 15, as W.W. West pointed out, it says the following:

Section 1: "The members of said committees, except the Audit Committee, Compensation Committee, Finance Committee, Grievance Committee, and International Judges and Officials Committee, shal be appointed annually by their chairs to hold office for one (1) year or until their successors are appointed and asssume office. Said chairs may remove such members with the concurrence of the president."

Then below it states,

Section 2: "The following comittees shall be composed as indicated and all members of such committees will hold office for one (1) year from the conclusion of the Annual meeting of the Governing Council for that year or until their respective successors are appointed and assume office."

So what does this mean? That a committee member can only serve for one year and during that year can be dismissed by the chair with the approval of the president? Does this mean that a committee member has to rotate off after one year? Or, does the following phrase "...or until their respective successors are appointed..." mean that a committee member is allowed to serve ad infinitum until the chair decides to replace them by appointing someone new?

Am I missing something here, because the language seems very vague, and I'm having a hard time interpreting it. Can others lend their interpretation of this, or as Blue111Moon suggested that there might be contridictory language somewhere else in the Rule Book?

Can someone who is serving on the Adult Committee help clarify this for me?

[manleywoman]

Honestly, I was asked to serve and am happy to serve. My curiosity about the exact wording of the rulebook ends there. Should it be clarified? Yes. But I have enough to do in my day with work and life to worry so much about it.

It's comprised of a very balanced cross-section of levels, ages, diciplines and regions, and even some adult judges. So I think we have some pretty (to borrow a phrase from FOX) fair and balanced discussions about how to move adult skating forward.

I wonder why you're so obsessed with being involved in the committee. Your partner was involved and, I could extrapolate, holds similar views as you and asked for your opinion when making decisions regarding pairs issues in particular. I'm sorry you're so disappointed for not being on.

[Clarice]

I don't have any experience with the Adult Committee, but I have served on the State Games Committee. My club used to be the USFSA club of record for the State Games in our state, and as the club chairperson in charge of organizing the competition, I was asked to be on the committee. I don't know who, if anybody, recommended me - I just got an official letter from USFSA asking whether I would serve. Each year, I'd get the letter again, asking whether I was willing to continue serving (so it seems to me there aren't any official term limits). When the host duties passed to another club, I declined membership on the committee and recommended my counterpart in the other club for membership instead, and that person was subsequently named to the committee. Every year clubs get contacted asking whether they have anyone they want to recommend to various USFSA committees. I would say that anyone interested in serving on a committee should first make their club officers aware of that. Once you've been nominated by your club, though, I have no idea how they decide who actually gets named to the committee. I suppose if the committee chair knows you, it would be a lot easier to get on it.

[pairman2]

Manleywoman

Regardless of whether our views coincide or not, Lovepairs would just like to hold an open honest discussion about this topic, because there has always been some ambiquity about the topic, if for no other reason then the fact that the source information is lost, often misquoted or misinterpreted. For all we know, the answers could be plainly spelled out in some fine print and that would be the end of that. I look forward to reading the conversation in order to learn more about what rules exist and how they are interpreted. Beyond that, the best sourse to understand my views is directly from me.

Thanks!
pairman2

[lovepairs]

Hi Manly,

First allow me to clarify a few things. At this point, I'm not interested on serving on the Adult Committee. However, I think that it is very important as an active member of the USFSA that I understand how a committee who is representing me functions. Therefore, I believe that I am within my rights to clearly understand, such issues as "term limitations," and I believe as a member I have a right to ask for clarification of language that I find vague and don't understand. Nothing personal, but to ask my why I am so "obsessed" is not necessarily what I wish to hear from my representative when I ask for a simple clarification of language.

Next, my pairs partner and I have nothing to do with one another when it comes to any kind of decision making with regard to the Adult Committee. His opinion is very much his own, and he is nothing more than you are to me, which is my respresentative. I have asked him for clarification upon this subject, and he cannot find a diffinitive answer either. So, I thought it would be a good idea to begin a discussion about this. I don't see the harm in asking questions about how the Adult Committee operates, unless the committee feels that it is best not to disclose how it functions to its members.

[manleywoman]

However, I think that it is very important as an active member of the USFSA that I understand how a committee who is representing me functions. Therefore, I believe that I am within my rights to clearly understand, such issues as "term limitations," and I believe as a member I have a right to ask for clarification of language that I find vague and don't understand.

I agree that it's vague, which is why I said I think it should be clarified. But you also asked if any of us on the AC knew the specifics regarding the rule book, to which I responded that no, I don't know the specifics. I was asked last year to serve, and then I was asked again this year. That's it as far as my knowledge. I don't know term limits.

I have no problem holding a discussion of the AC's clarifications of rules. But lovepairs does lead this with, what I sense, is an accusatory tone that since the rules are NOT clear, there must be a hidden agenda in remaining vague. It's unfortunate that your questions have not been clarified. Perhaps if the PTB can clarify the rulebook, then you'll be satisfied.

[lovepairs]

Hi Manly,

Sorry that you read anything into it on my part other than believing that members have a right to have rules clearly stated without ambiguity. After all, there is extensive conversation among adult skaters trying to understand all of the rules under the new IJS. The USFSA is an organization that is guided by very specific rules for all of its participants on the ice including skaters, judges, technical specialists, controllers, ect... Therefore, not to be equally concerned with the organization's rules off the ice as it applies to all of its members would be nothing short of irresponsiblity.

I understand that you don't know the answer to my question about term limits, which you've already expressed to me on several occassions. I thought maybe someone else might be able to answer my questions, and especially, since Blue111Moon came up with a different answer then Daises's, I thought it would be worth seeing if anyone else out there might know.

I am assuming that when you said PTB that you meant Powers-to-Be? If this is correct, please know that I have asked the PTB formally and in writing, through the proper channels beginning with my respresentative, up through the SVC, to the Chair, about term rotations for adult committee, as well as other detailed questions with regard to the nomination process for serving on the Adult Committee, and to date have received no response to my inquiry. I sent this letter out several month ago.

Thanks, again, for trying to help, Manly. I don't believe there is a hidden agenda, but I do believe that no one has taken the time to look at this issue concerning the lack of clarity about term rotations as well as the nomination process to serve on the Adult Committee, which could indeed cause a lot of frustration not only among the members serving on the Adult Committee, such as yourself, who are unable to answer questions about this, but also for all of the members who wish to serve on the Adult Committee in the future.

[lovepairs]

Sorry, my post posted twice.

[w.w.west]

You obviously want answers beyond what a message board can provide. Why don't you take this to the executive level? Try the Board of Directors. Contact the VP (Vice President) that represents your section or perhaps Administrative/Legal. If you still are not satisfied with the answers there, become a delegate for your club and go to Governing Council and lobby it there. Perhaps you can submit a Request for Action under new business to the Council. If that still does not satisfy you, I'm afraid that is as high as it goes. Unless, of course, you choose to take outside legal action.

[lovepairs]

You obviously want answers beyond what a message board can provide. Why don't you take this to the executive level? Try the Board of Directors. Contact the VP (Vice President) that represents your section or perhaps Administrative/Legal.

We have already taken it to this level that you mention above, but have not received a response thus far.

Your other suggestions are interesting. I didn't know that as a delegate of my home club that I could bring it up directly at a Governing Council meeting? I was under the impression that I needed to work this up the proper avenues provided--meaning through an adult committee representative, who would then contact the SVC, who would then go to the Chair and right on up the line. Are you sure that I can go directly to the Governing Council as an individual member of the USFSA? I thought that is why we had "layers" of representation...so, that our representatives could table the issues for us?

Thanks, West, this is getting more interesting. I'm not sure, because I don't serve on the Adult Committee and don't know how things work, but I'm hoping that because I brought this up as an issue that once business conviens, again, that the Adult Committee will put this on their agenda to be reviewed, looked at, or at the very least discussed. That's my hope.

[blue111moon]

Lovespairs,

I don't know the exact page and rule number. As soon as I get two or three spare hours to hunt through the Rulebook, I'll look it up. But given my sechedule, that's not going to happen any time soon.

I do know that it was the case back in the Olden Days when I served on the Adult Skating Sub-Committee (before it became a separate committee on it's own). And that the three-year thing involves all the committees, not just Adults.

Or - you could do it yourself. All it involves is reading.

And there are a lot of parts in the Rule that contradict each other and that are unclear.

[FrankR]

We have already taken it to this level that you mention above, but have not received a response thus far.

Your other suggestions are interesting. I didn't know that as a delegate of my home club that I could bring it up directly at a Governing Council meeting? I was under the impression that I needed to work this up the proper avenues provided--meaning through an adult committee representative, who would then contact the SVC, who would then go to the Chair and right on up the line. Are you sure that I can go directly to the Governing Council as an individual member of the USFSA? I thought that is why we had "layers" of representation...so, that our representatives could table the issues for us?

Thanks, West, this is getting more interesting. I'm not sure, because I don't serve on the Adult Committee and don't know how things work, but I'm hoping that because I brought this up as an issue that once business conviens, again, that the Adult Committee will put this on their agenda to be reviewed, looked at, or at the very least discussed. That's my hope.

Hi Andrea,

I know this is going to sound a bit silly or even condescending (which it's not meant to be) but have you ever tried just picking up the phone and calling the USFSA and just asking your question? A couple of weeks ago I was asked by someone to gather a little background information from the USFSA and so I called them up. I assure you I got a very prompt and genial response in a matter of minutes. Sometimes the best approach to getting a question answered is a direct approach.

Frank

[lovepairs]

Hi Andrea,

I know this is going to sound a bit silly or even condescending (which it's not meant to be) but have you ever tried just picking up the phone and calling the USFSA and just asking your question?
Frank

Hi Franklin,

Not condescending at all. In fact, I really have to LOL, because this is how this whole thing started! Over a year ago I contacted the USFSA headquarters to ask several questions about the nomination process, term limits, ect... no one there could give me any answers and they suggested that I contact the Chair of the Adult Committee, which I did over a year ago. Ever since then it's been a "snake eating it's tail," which is why I finally put it all in writing (a formal letter) submitted in the proper manner to my Adult Committee Representative who took it from there. Otherwise, I have an enormous paper trail of emails of this one telling me to contact that one, and the occassional email telling me to shut up and go away, which of course I won't do, because that doesn't solves any of these issues, or provide clarification at all.

Blue,

As you can imagine I have combed the Rule Book looking for this information, and never ran across anything that said (3) three years. You are absolutely right though...the USFSA Rule Book is fraught with many contraditictions and almost impossible to read, which, again, of course begs the issue about "clarification." By the way, Blue, that's fascinating...so, you served on the Adult-sub committee before it actually became a separate Adult Committee? How far back does that go? If you will, please tell a little history about how and when this committee was formed. Much appreciated!

Not to hyjack my own thread, but, Franklin...a huge congrats on trying counters and rockers at the Summer Camp! We are working on those now in the Novice Moves...they are a blast!