Double Jumps

[Skate@Delaware]

My coach has been teaching me to over-rotate on the salchow. I was able to do so before the ice closed up in april. On a good day, I get good height and go 1.5 around...

Yeah, I don't have a flip, loop, or lutz (working on them but not there yet), we are going "outside of the box" on this one. She said I can do this on my own (the over-rotating) as long as I'm padded. She did teach me the flip before working on the loop as my body wasn't "getting" it...so jumping around is something we do a lot. Plus work on the basics (all the time). She did mention that I might get taught intro to the axel this year and doing off-ice until it's close. If everything else works out and I'm more serious than last year (which was a goof-off year for me).

I have some questions:
1-anyone else get taught like this? I'm somewhat dyslexic so maybe that's why we are doing this. I'm not bugged by it-psyched really.
2-have any advice or tips? I've jazzed up my gym routine and the end of this month I will be adding plyo work.

I haven't been taught much in the way of off-ice jumping. Most of what I know I've gotten out of the Conditioning for Skaters book by Poe.

I've looked into an adult clinic in the area but they've been MIA; I could not make the Hackensack camp this year. I realize this might open up a can of worms because we aren't doing things in the proper order. Sometimes things just don't work out that way!

[*JennaD*]

I learned my jumps pretty much in order...but I know a few people I skate wtih that have learned their axel with no flip or lutz to speak of...I think it depends on the coach and if you are ready to learn jumps with more rotation or not. If your coach is kind of teaching you double sal, then he/she probably thinks you are ready to get more rotation! Sometimes, working on harder jumps also makes the easier jumps that you dont have yet easier (I've been working on double sal a lot even tho I don't have a consistent axel and it has helped me quite a bit with my axel).

Well...I guess I would suggest practicing all your jumps on the ground or on the harness maybe to get a feel for them and what htey are supposed to feel like. Maybe that will help you with them on the ice.

Also, to help with axel and double sal, you should try waltz jump-backspin and salchow-backspin so that you get the feel of what you are supose dto be doing in the air~!

[Skate@Delaware]

Also, to help with axel and double sal, you should try waltz jump-backspin and salchow-backspin so that you get the feel of what you are supose dto be doing in the air~!
She did have me work on these...when my backspin showed up, that is! I'm supposed to do *insert any jump*backspin....maybe now that my blade is aligned better my backspin will be more reliable!

I will take your advice, thanks!

[blackmanskating]

Well I had a double salchow before I had a decent lutz or a decent axel. And it's still crazy because I'm rotating double axel now and I have never rotated double lutz. So maybe I'm dyslexic too. I just think I have lutz issues. :roll: I think you should try to do all of your singles and put a backspin on the end of them. Then gradually start getting into your backspin position in the air. Try doing a backspin and jumping into a double loop. Be sure to jump forward instead of jumping straight up. You might surprise yourself at how well you rotate. You probably are a natural jumper. Let it happen.

Sometimes the unconventional method is what works best for you. I've only been skating approximately 18 months and the conventional method would dictate that I should not be working on a double axel because of my "lack" of experience. I say, if it's in you, go for it. You can back up and learn the rest of your singles when you are ready. Everybody learns differently and some things come more natural to you than other things. Building up your strengths will encourage you to face the weaker elements in your skating. That's how I look at it.



BlackManSkating

[WhisperSung]

My coach got so frustrated with me as a kid, because I was having massive issues with double flip and lutz (toe jumps aren't my thing), so he had me working on double axel and triple salchow instead. In the end, I was pretty disappointed because I now can't land the 2axel and 3sal anymore, and I've had to learn 2flip and 2lutz totally from scratch as an adult. I suppose from my experience, I recommend getting the basics in progression solid before trying something more difficult, but I know adult skaters learn differently, so I can't really say your coach is wrong. It's whatever works best for you.

As for the 1.5 jumps, up until my current coach, I'd never heard of them. She pushes them on everyone she coaches, though. She required a perfect 1.5 flip and lutz before she'd even consider the doubles. She wanted a strong entrance and exit, and it's really helped me. I also highly recommend (for axel) the waltz jump back spin and the waltz jump-loop jump combo. Also try rotating the axel on the floor to help with the feeling on-ice.

Good luck to you!

[Sessy]

How do you land half and onehalf revolution jumps anyway? We didn't have half jumps in class either, over here they kick straight to singles and then to doubles.

[Sessy]

Try doing a backspin and jumping into a double loop. Be sure to jump forward instead of jumping straight up. You might surprise yourself at how well you rotate. You probably are a natural jumper. Let it happen.
BlackManSkating

FORWARD? :o Why, how does this work? I can't picture it.

[chowskates]

Try doing a backspin and jumping into a double loop. Be sure to jump forward instead of jumping straight up.

FORWARD? :o Why, how does this work? I can't picture it.

Sessy, think of it as R (for CCW) shoulder initiating the rotation into the jump (just as with any other jump!), rather than "going with the flow". Does that make sense??

[vesperholly]

What's the point of having a double sal without a loop, flip or lutz? Even if you can land it, you can't use it on a test because you can't pass Bronze, Silver or Gold without those three singles. You can't compete doubles until Gold. And it will just take time away from learning the singles you'll need to move up. I don't really see the benefit except to your ego.

[Sessy]

Sessy, think of it as R (for CCW) shoulder initiating the rotation into the jump (just as with any other jump!), rather than "going with the flow". Does that make sense??

Totally.
The jumping forward thing confused me cuz I was literally jumping forward on my loop and flip for a while (as in landing before the point of takeoff) but I get it now thanks!

[Sessy]

What's the point of having a double sal without a loop, flip or lutz? Even if you can land it, you can't use it on a test because you can't pass Bronze, Silver or Gold without those three singles. You can't compete doubles until Gold. And it will just take time away from learning the singles you'll need to move up. I don't really see the benefit except to your ego.

Could make sense for learning the axel I guess. And maybe her coach wants to let the other jumps rest for a little while to get back to them in a month or so? Meanwhile keep her busy so she doesn't start practicing those jumps again on her own and mess with the plan.

[Mrs Redboots]

How do you land half and onehalf revolution jumps anyway? We didn't have half jumps in class either, over here they kick straight to singles and then to doubles.A 3-jump is a 1/2 revolution jump, as is the way most people do a cherry flip and even a salchow, although strictly speaking they are single jumps.

You will learn the half-jumps (falling-leaf and mazurka in particular) when you need them to go in step sequences, but that won't be for awhile yet.

[Sessy]

Oh we've had to test the falling leaf actually, so we did learn that one already, but that's not what I mean.

I hear people talking about half flips and half lutzes, how do they land them? The way we landed the falling leaf was on a toepick with a quick weight shift to the other foot, but would this really work for doubles?

Also the 2/3rd axel I was landing simply on the back of my blade, riding it out on a forward inside edge, is that how you land 1,5 revs jumps?

[blackmanskating]

FORWARD? :o Why, how does this work? I can't picture it.

Ohh what I meant was while you are in a backspin jump off of the toepick. To do that, you want to jump slightly forward. When you try to jump straight up, you'll jump off of the wrong part of your blade and end up on your heel when you land. Jump forward and rise off of your toepick to set yourself up for the landing and check out.

[Skate@Delaware]

Ohh what I meant was while you are in a backspin jump off of the toepick. To do that, you want to jump slightly forward. When you try to jump straight up, you'll jump off of the wrong part of your blade and end up on your heel when you land. Jump forward and rise off of your toepick to set yourself up for the landing and check out.
I have done this with the loop-practice: backspin-(hoppything UP)-backspin. It was freaky the first few times.....then I was ok with it. You do have to roll off the toepick though!

What's the point of having a double sal without a loop, flip or lutz?
It's a start. And we will be doing the other jumps, the double-sal is a beginning; a work-in-progress..I do believe she said it would take a year or so to "get" it. In the meanwhile, I do plan on getting my other jumps.

Even if you can land it, you can't use it on a test because you can't pass Bronze, Silver or Gold without those three singles.
Yeah, I'm not testing USFSA. I'm sticking with ISI for a while. I did a reassessment of my goals and right now, it just didn't fit in with my skating goals; especially since I'm 80% show skater, 20% competitions (freestyle, artistic, and spotlight).

[WhisperSung]

Sessy: 1.5 rev jumps are nice ways to work on getting jump take-offs correct without the added stress of attempting to land the actual double jump. You just jump up (say on a flip), rotate one and a half times in the air, and land forward on two feet. Then you push out with your left foot and arm to complete the jump (while you're still forward). This if for the counter-clockwise spinning skater.

Once I could land the 1.5 jump with a solid take-off and a controlled landing, my coach would tell me to add the last half rotation. It makes learning the double a lot easier!

[Sessy]

Ahh 2 feet okay. Deliberately 2-footing always messes with my balance.

[flo]

My coach tells me "land on 1 foot or fall".

[chowskates]

Ohh what I meant was while you are in a backspin jump off of the toepick. To do that, you want to jump slightly forward. When you try to jump straight up, you'll jump off of the wrong part of your blade and end up on your heel when you land. Jump forward and rise off of your toepick to set yourself up for the landing and check out.

Yep, that makes sense - you do have do jump off the toe!

[RinkRat321]

i've basically learned everything in order. i would suggest doing jump rotations off ice, maybe that will help? other than that my coach just tells me to make sure i check my three turn, and kick through with my free leg. hope that helps!

[Skate@Delaware]

My coach tells me "land on 1 foot or fall".
When I successfully landed and then fell on the loop, my coach was VERY happy (so was I) because I landed it correctly...my balance was just off so I fell.

she doesn't like to see me put my other foot out to "save myself" :giveup: