Peer coaching?

[chowskates]

From another thread, there was discussion about adult skaters giving tips. I was just wondering (for those of you who take lessons) what your coaches think of that...

My previous freestyle coach was very "protective" of what sort of "coaching" her students get when then are "practising". She would tell us not to take other "advise", even if well-intentioned.

Why? Because different coaches have different techniques, and even if they have similar techniques, what a coach tells one student may differ from another student just because they have different "mistakes".

Of course, coupled with the fact that there are actually people out there who love to give advise (think hockey skaters trying to teach a figure skater how to do a toe loop!?) I don't blame her for her position on the issue!

Nevertheless, I wonder if a similar situation exists elsewhere!

[kateskate]

My coach is the same. She doesn't mind her own pupils practising with and helping out each other but she isn't keen on you helping out other skaters not taught by her and I am wary of taking advice from others anyway. It can be confusing. As you say it is because coaching styles vary and many coaches teach things differently whilst all being correct. And I think it is fair enough that she doesn't want others learning her techniques via her pupils. If they want a lesson on something they way she teaches it, they should ask her, not her pupils. Plus I wouldn't feel too comfortable correcting someone unless I knew for sure I was right. I'd rather they ask a coach.

I don't mind suggestions or advice from others - I usually listen and am just selective about what I put into action - I guess it depends on who is helping me and what they are saying. Often people tell you things are 'wrong' when in fact they aren't and you are just doing things differently.

[jskater49]

Personally, I think it's a bad idea to get anything more than "how to you do that again" from anyone other than your own coach. Even when you change coaches, you very often have to relearn technique to do it their way, how much more confusing to take advise from someone "off the street" as it were.


Even on this board, well for one thing, I don't get written instruction very well, but if there is a descrepency between what my coach says and what I read here, I go with my coach.

And I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE to get unsolicited advice from passerbys when I skate. I don't like to be criticized as it is, but when I'm paying someone for it, I'm prepared, but when someone just skates by me and tries to tell me how to do something, I don't like it.

j

[SynchroSk8r114]

As a coach, I get very annoyed when my younger students receive "tips" from their buddies. For instance, I have a girl who is working (well, struggling with confidence issues and usually has a million "what-if's" about the patterns) on her Preliminary MIF. She has a friend whom she will practice with after their lessons, and often the two of them are working on their field moves as they are on the same level. Well, the day that set me off the most was when my student came up to me and said that the other girl she was practicing with told her that her pattern was off, that she was going too far down the ice, and all this. I was like, "What?!" First of all, the other girl is about half the size of my student, so of course she's not going to be able to make it down the ice as far my skater does. Secondly, her small stature limits the amount of power/flow she's getting, which led her to tell me skater to slow down and not push as hard. My student already has some power issues (why she failed the first time, on top of nerves, which only made the lack of power worse!), so that was the last thing she needed to hear! So, instead of working on my skater's power/flow/speed/extensions, I had to spend the whole lesson answering questions like, "Well, what if I don't make it down the ice?", "What if I put my foot down?", "So-and-so said to end the spirals here..." Seriously?

I've passed my Senior MIF, have a rulebook, and have coached under Master-rated coaches - I think I know what I'm talking about! I mean, don't question the way I'm teaching. It's fine to have questions and all, but what angers me is when someone thinks I'm teaching a move wrong to begin with! :frus:

Hahaha, sorry for the rant. This is just something I cannot stand as a coach...:halo:

[Clarice]

Not to mention the fact that these informal "coaches" are not insured should anything go wrong during their "lessons".

[Skate@Delaware]

My rink has rules against this type of "coaching" because of the liability and it encroaches on your coach's territory.

That being said, I do have permission to "assist" my husband with moves, because he is a lower level than I am (and only him). I am allowed to be the "junior coach" when we practice together. It's been fun but it's very hard work-trying to remember everything she teaches!

There are no issues with having someone demonstrate a move-we do that all the time...can't tell you how many times I've had a brain spasm and needed a toe-loop or back-3 demo'd.

[Isk8NYC]

As a coach, I like it when my students work together during practices. It keeps them on the ice and focused on skating. One of my students learned a spreadeagle that way, another "invented" a one-foot waltz jump that's now one of her trademarks! LOL Plus, it's better to correct a dropped shoulder on a practice session because a friend pointed it out, rather than do it wrong ten times, get frustrated, and pay a coach to say the same thing.

Different coaches DO teach different techniques. Best example is what arm leads when stepping into a spin. There are at least six different variations and most people use "whatever works" approach. Learning the different methods adds to versatility and sometimes fixes problems, so why fight progress?

I have had "but so-and-so teaches it THIS way" situations and I just tell the kids to skate THAT way for so-and-so, but MY way for me! I'm very careful not to say "that's the WRONG way" but I've had other coaches make that statement about my teaching methods. For example, I teach waltz jumps using the arms during the jump. Another teacher (young, but talented) told my own DD's that method was wrong; arms should be frozen in front. I told the girls to just do it for me one way, and the other teacher her way. I had a chat with the instructor later about how "different" is not "wrong." (Footnote: I covered that class last week and none of her group lesson students has a decent waltz jump EXCEPT my DD's. *snicker*)

I say work together. It builds friendships, makes skating (ok, PRACTICING) fun, and sometimes you learn new things or methods. Sometimes you invent new moves from just fooling around with friends, but at the very least it makes practicing the darn thing 10 times a little less frustrating.

[Morgail]

I sometimes give tips to the kids I see at public sessions when they ask for them, but I keep them to well-known basic ideas (like keep your weight over your spinning side in a backspin, or straighten your legs on your spirals) so as to try not to interfere with anyone's coaching. If they ask something like "Where do I put my arms for this three turn?", I ask them what their coach has said and then say something like "She's right."
As for getting tips from others, I like to try different techniques out. Most of the time it's something that my coach has already told me, but it just hasn't sunk in yet. Sometimes hearing it from someone else in a different way works. If it's completely opposite from what my coach says, I may try it out just to see how it works, but I go back to doing it how my coach has taught me.

[DallasSkater]

I do not have issue with getting tips, hearing different versions of how to do an element or even getting conflicting advice on where arms or something is suppose to be. Be it an actual coach or another student or even the written instructions and tips from this board..it just seems that each bit of information makes it more likely that I will "get it" from some source. I am always grateful to receive tips particularly from more advanced adult students at the rinks. I have no issue answering questions and attempting to explain what my understanding of an element is to someone who is not as far as I am. Mostly it is reminders or just reframes of what a coach has already said. For some things, I can even see things like why a more advanced student is struggling with an element even if I cannot personally do it. I think you just have to weed through all comments....even from my coaches.

I do have issue with feeling "owned" by my coach..or told by one coach that another is "not right" or "not a good coach". It happened a lot especially as a LTS student who was placed in groups led by different coaches. "Don't listen to that one!" was common. My assessment is usually that this is about the professional self esteem of the complaining coach. That passive aggressive behavior is usually presented in a theme of learning something wrong or developing bad habits...but appears to me to occur most frequently by coaches that are threatened. Although I am now finished with levels in LTS and do privates only...I miss the variety of other students and coaches offered by the LTS experience.

The most popular coaches seem secure in what they have to offer. My new secondary coach (soon to be primary) recently got her Master rating. She is very popular, very secure and very interested in what tips I have gotten from other students or even coaches. She could not wait to hear what new stuff I had from the adult week experience. She does not attempt to have me skate only with her other students, is complimentary of other coaches techniques or just says nothing if she is not impressed! I believe it is a total reflection of her professionalism and her confidence in her own skills. I typically do get what she is trying to teach only because she has no issue with reframing even herself if I look confused. She has the verbal ability to mechanically break things down...as well as the modeling skill to do the elements. She is my main source of information but tips from others are my reminders.

[jskater49]

I think one's opinion on peer coaching depends on your experience. I've had mostly bad experience and even the good experiences had it's limitations. I believe the coach's I've known that have discouraged and even forbad children "helping" each other have done that because of the bad outcomes they've seen from it, not out of any sense of ownership or being threatened.

j

[flo]

We're more along the lines of ISK8NYC. We're pretty open about this. Since many of us take from the same coaches, we're usually re-inforcing what's been taught. And if it's a different method, it helps or it doesn't. Skating can be very solitary, and this interaction between skaters is positive. It's a good learning experience as well. When you give someone tips, you typically slow down and really think about the process. I've been given and have given tips to kids and so forth and it really helps to improve the relationships among the skaters.

[Mrs Redboots]

I think one's opinion on peer coaching depends on your experience. I've had mostly bad experience and even the good experiences had it's limitations. I believe the coach's I've known that have discouraged and even forbad children "helping" each other have done that because of the bad outcomes they've seen from it, not out of any sense of ownership or being threatened.

jI can understand that, but on the other hand, I've also seen kids practising together and helping one another and challenging one another: "Can you do a sit-spin?" and showing the skater who can't exactly how it's done. In fact, one young skater I know skates way above her test level precisely because she spends a lot of time playing (in that sense) with a skater who is way higher than she is, and has gained an awful lot from that.