The 2007 Hackensack Adult Camp Thread

[FallDownGoBoom]

Well! How'd ya do?

[Ice T]

WOW! WOW! WOW! What an AMAZING time I had!! :bow:

Thank you so much everyone for the tips about what to bring and what to expect!!

I really look forward to going back there again!!

[FrankR]

Well! How'd ya do?

Interesting that you should ask because I fell down and went boom plenty of times. :lol: I still had a blast and managed to do some new things that I'm ecstatic about.

Nikolai had us doing rockers and counters in edge quality class. I was very pleased with that because I had never done rockers and counters before and it was great to start them. Granted, I still have trouble with them and I can't really do them with control but at least I've been exposed to them and I have something to build on with these turns.

I actually surprised myself with how close I came to landing a double loop in the edge jump class. Alexander Abt gave me a tip that was very helpful. I also ended up landing a brand new combination for me in the combo jump class (axel/loop/double toe). I actually did a few of these. Tatiana Volosozhar and her coach, Galina were really happy for me. I even earned a congratulatory slap on the butt from Oksana Baiul 8O 8O 8O . :D (Have I ever mentioned that I love her like cooked food? ;) ) :lol:

I was equally stunned to have a decent spin class with John and Sylvia. (This class was at 8am on the second day and my legs felt like stilts at this point.) I did a catch-foot camel, a forward pancake sit spin and a flying camel with a catch-foot. All of this without going splat. For anyone that was at last year's camp, you all know how huge that is for me considering I ended up doing push-ups after a splatted camel last year. :giveup:

The off-ice classes with Christine were great. Of course I'm pretty biased because I've been taking ballet from her for two years now. Nevertheless, I felt very challenged and even if I looked like a wounded stork in ballet class, at least I felt like I left with a better awareness of how to hold myself on the ice. :)

The field moves, body movement and power stroking classes were incredible. It was very challenging to go between learning to have ultimate control in the moves class and learning to let go and be free in the other two classes.

Saturday night dinner was great! It's my favorite part of the whole weekend. I can't wait to do it all again next year. I still say we should wear internet name-tags. I think I missed a few folks from this board as well as FSU. lol Maybe when we do the round-table introductions, we should give our internet user-names and our real names.

I hope everyone had a good time. It was great sharing with everyone.

Take care all,

Frank

[Scarlett]

I was actually disappointed this year. I was in the recreational group and they grouped all the rec skaters together regardless of skill level. We had people who ranged from a lady in a helmet who could barely move forward to a young woman who had inconsistent doubles. Most of the group were beginner skaters or skaters who were working on their toe loops and salchows.

Most of the classes were too basic and while we can always go back and work on basic skills, the instructors were too focused on those that could not skate to really help the rest of us.

There were definitely some highlights but overall it wasn't a great experience. I don't know what I will do next time. I had such a great time last year but I definitely didn't get my money's worth this year.

[BelleBway]

Maybe when we do the round-table introductions, we should give our internet user-names and our real names.


LOL, I thought of doing that, but then ended up not doing it.

I will be honest and say that I had a hard time at first and wondered what I'd gotten myself into. There were a lot of people in group 1 and 2 with me, and we were pretty diverse in skill... for the first 2 classes, they did not divide us further and I spent a lot of that time standing at the wall and feeling overwhelmed. (I had never tried jumping before) Once the instructors started dividing us up (and once I started meeting people who were at a similar level to me), it was much better! I know that I should have been more assertive at first-- but it was hard to do so since I was new to the camp and I felt nervous and somewhat intimidated.

I give much credit to my coach because whenever we got to anything I'd worked on, even if briefly, I felt like I could at least hold my own. I did feel like I got a lot out of it- although some of that was more in terms of things I want to work towards as opposed to things I can use right away.

Loved meeting all the other adults, as well as the skaters who were teaching the classes. Everyone was so friendly, and I truly felt like I fit in, even though I am such a total beginner compared to most everyone and even though I am totally shy about meeting people. Just the atmosphere of being there, and being a part of it, was so special.

I'd never done any sports or anything as a kid and if you'd told me 2 yrs ago, I could be at this camp, I'd never have believed it. In a way, just being able to participate in the camp meant as much to me as a gold medal.

All in all, it was an amazing time and I hope to be back next year! Hopefully with more skills in my repertoire (although I may have to find another coach since mine seems to not think it is a big deal to just drop me for however many weeks it is going to take him to figure out his summer schedule... sorry for the off topic, but I am kinda annoyed and confused)

[Emberchyld]

Hi everyone!

I was the loudmouth in group 2
(who was the demo body for the ballet class)-- this was my second year and loved it again!
Groups one and two did have the problem of being lumped together for the first two classes-- and after the absolutely disastrous edge jumps class (okay, so, seriously-- last year I was in group one, couldn't even stop and if someone told ME to do a waltz jump or salchow, I would have started to cry! That was the first thing I thought when I saw them lump both groups for that lesson), I went over to Craig and asked him to please make sure that the groups were properly divided, like they were last year. True to his word, that got fixed in the very next on-ice class (Craig is always fantastic-- but you have to speak up, because he won't know there's a problem unless someone mentions it-- and it's the same with the coaches. They want you to have a good experience and to learn, so tell them when you can't do something or when you want to work on something higher level and they'll usually help you out. )

Lowlights-- well, it was confirmed-- my toeloop is/was really a toe-waltz (although I like that Kyoko called it a toe-axel. Sounds so much cooler! *ahem* "What did you do this weekend?" "Oh, just a bunch of toe-axels"), but under Adam Rippon's incredibly patient tutelage, it became less waltzy and is on it's way to being loopy.
People crashing our spins class. There was at least one high-level teen (and not assistants-- actual crashers) on that ice taking up some of John and Sylvia's time. That was really annoying.
Edge jumps. But I said enough about that earlier
No US Figure skating coverage! It's really sad that we won't have all of the pictures that we've had in past years. (I did manage to get a few shots of Nikolai coaching one of the Sunday 8 am classes that I can give to anyone who's trying to put something together, but I didn't take many- one, because of the whole legal releases thing, and two because I didn't want to pull out my camera during my own lessons.)

Highlights: Morozov's edges class. Awesome.
Edward's moves class. My legs hurt soooo much afterwards, but I really think it made a difference in the look of my crossovers and the feel of my perimeter stroking. He may be "mean", but I always find his class lots of fun and very informative.

John and Sylvia's spin class. The two of them are just so sweet and down to earth. Sylvia took our group first and worked on our 1 foot spin entries. Anyone who has been reading the practice threads knows that the entry has been driving me crazy-- and within minutes, Sylvia had diagnosed the fact that I was keeping my free leg back and not committing to the spin. With her help, I had a "lightbulb moment" and actually managed to pull off about one or two good spins, with potential. I still have a lot of work to do, but now I know what to fix. What was nice about this is that Sylvia shared that this was her exact problem when she first started spinning and that she remembered the fear. We also commiserated about being CW spinners-- as she said "Some people say that we spin the wrong way, but we know we're right!". John then came over to teach us backspins and I tried to soak up as much of his advice as I could. I'm convinced that I will pull off a better backspin once I clean up that entry-- it feels more solid. Best part of all-- even after we got kicked off of the ice, they were willing to talk with us for quite a bit, give us more advice, tolerate our gajillion requests for pictures... They were awesome. Also, I really felt like I worked in that class-- rink 4 was bitterly cold, but I was in my tank top within fifteen minutes.

Ballet and Pilates: Christine is always great, and always willing to give advice on stretching and strengthening. I was afraid I wouldn't get much out of the ballet class, but Christine put me up front to be the demo body and still really gave me some great corrections on placement, positioning, and details. I really worked in that class, and it felt fantastic.

Power skating: They were nice enough to add this on at the end, and I really liked some of the drills we were taught. The other instructor's parodies of Igor behind his back were hilarious.

Saturday night dinner. Thanks for inviting me to this! I had so much fun meeting everybody. Uhm, but now I'm afraid-- maybe we should avoid the injury count next time... 8O 8O 8O

I love coming to the camp and maybe I'll feel advanced enough next year to join the competitive track. Thanks to everyone at the Ice House and AA FSC who made this camp fantastic!

[newskaker5]

Well this was my 1st time at the camp. I had a lot of fun. I was in the competitive singles track (group 4), which I was nervous about, but ended up being a great spot for me (I do not compete/test yet). I was right in the middle/top of the group with jumps and in the middle/bottom of the pack with spins/footwork, but I did not feel over or underwhelmed.

The instructors were great, just some of the accents/language barriers made it a bit fustrating for me since I am not always that quick on understanding corrections. Oksana was a bit weird w our group, but everyone else could not have been friendlier. The people in my group were also terrific.

There were a few classes I liked better than others, and I was disappointed that we had no off-ice jump class as that was one of the main reasons I was excited to go. Christine was terrific. The peak performance thing I am not quite sure what to think- at least in our class she never really seemed to merge what she was talking about w skating- I went back anyway the 2nd day since 1/2 our group decided to skip the class and I felt bad for her haha.

Overall, it was a great experience. I was hoping to learn new skills, which I did not, but at least the corrections I was given on old skills helped. And it is always reassuring to hear the "pros" give the same corrections as my coach (although I was pretty confient he knew what he was talking about). haha


What did everyone else think?

[doubletoe]

Frank, it was so awesome getting to spend some time with you, and thanks for the tip on the pancake spin! I'm really excited to work on it!! Congrats on your new combo jump, too! I wish I'd seen it!

Biggest bonus: Aside from the thrill of meeting Miki Ando, Daisuke Takahashi, Alexei Yagudin and Oksana Baiul (and watch Miki and Daisuke's lessons!), I thought the best part of the camp was Silvia Fontana and John Zimmerman's spin class. To my surprise, even though I've lusted over JZ for years, I found myself falling in love with Silvia! What a beautiful human being she is! Not only did she help me get the beginnings of a pancake spin and catch foot camel, but she was right there to encourage and help me with anything else I asked her about throughout the whole camp.

I was also really happy that the jumps, spins and edges we worked on in the Group 8 classes were a challenge that stretched most of us to try things we hadn't even tried before (unlike the other camp I'd been to, where the most difficult jump we worked on was two levels below our most difficult consistent jump).

Biggest disappointment: Nikolai Morozov's program critique sessions prompted several of us to rename him, "Nikolai Rippedusoff". The sessions were $80 each and there was supposed to be maximum 3 skaters for each 45 minute session (i.e., 15 minutes per skater). We had 4 in our group, and although he had each of us skate our programs twice, not one of us received ANY feedback on our actual programs! Instead, the group got a little canned spiel on the need to skate on deeper edges and opt for simpler moves and elements so that we can focus more on presentation. Uh, yeah, any coach could have told us that and probably already has. Apparently, he told other groups the same thing. Alexei Yagudin showed up during the session and watched, so I guess the $80 fee was what I paid for the right to claim that Alexei Yagudin watched me skate my program. :roll:

Morozov also disappointed me a little in the body movement class, which was more supervised play than anything, since there was practically zero instruction. We were asked to spend the 45 minutes skating to at least 10 different styles of music, free-form. But without any tools or tips for each type of music, I was limited to the movements I already knew how to do, which didn't give me much range of expression. I am also amazed that we didn't have any major collisions and injuries, with our 23-member group 8 (Gold level skaters) all moving pretty fast in all directions while trying to improvise and get lost in the music. I don't know if there was a single spiral or spread eagle that didn't have to be aborted, LOL!

However, Morozov did redeem himself in the power stroking class and combination jump classes. In the power stroking class, he presented a few concepts that were unexpected and a little radical, which is what I would have expected from him. He also had some good tips and exercises in the combination jump class (where I discovered that I could, in fact, do at least 11 loop jumps in a row if I didn't run into a wall first, LOL!). In fact, his tip about how the left arm comes in on the toeloop takeoff may end up being the big breakthrough for me on that problem jump.

Kyoko Ina's toe jump class was very good, too. She divided us into 3 groups and rotated the 3 instructors so that we each got enough help. We spent almost the entire session on toeloops, which was awesome for me. And yes, 17-year old Adam Rippon was a really pleasant surprise. He had some unique ways of conceptualizing and explaining things, and was wonderful at troubleshooting the toeloop takeoff. And yes, he had the patience of a saint! His life-coach mom Kelly has clearly done something right (although I agree that her peak performance class fell way short because she did not actually integrate it with skating situations).

But the best part of this camp was getting to spend time with all of the other skaters, especially so many Gold level skaters! Wow! What an inspiration, and how wonderful it was to get time to relax and talk with everyone outside of competition mode! :D

[Kelli]

Overall, the weekend was great! It's so amazing to be out there with other adults who just get it. I was really impressed with the overall quality of skating -- last year, there were 3 of us landing Axels, and this year there was a whole classful! I was towards the bottom of group 7/8 jumpwise, but in the right place as far as moves and basic skating.

I think jump classes are always hard, because either you stand around a lot but get some individual feedback, or it's a big free for all, you're fighting to get jumps in, and get limited feedback. I liked how we did the toe-jump class, and I agree that Adam was great! We even had a short discussion about toeloops walking out the door Sunday afternoon. I still don't get the jump, but I think I'm getting closer. I was not that happy with the combination jump class.

The spin class was great for me because I've never had to work on all the crazy variations since I only test. My left quad is still sore from a sit variation that Elene was showing me. But primary coach saw a decent attempt at it this morning and pronounced it non-fugly, so I'll keep working on it. Like Adam, Elene was a doll! I actually really liked all of the young skaters they had as demonstrators/assistants, and actually got more feedback from them than anyone else.

I loved Nicolai's edge and power class, not so fond of the body movement class. Did anyone else think Nicolai's "agressive" looked remarkably like his "seductive"? The one thing I'll try to remember to take from that class is that footwork is much easier and lighter when you're not totally obsessing over exactly what your feet are doing. I liked the counter-bracket-choctaw combination from edge quality, and I'll keep working on that. And I'm not going to lie, one of the huge highlights for me was demonstrating the backward edges (the ones with no push on the foot change) as someone doing it "almost correctly." :lol:

Edward is always a riot on and off the ice, but I do think he could have spent less time on 3 turns and more time on rockers and counters. It's hard because not everyone knew how to do them (I come from a synchro rink, explains a lot about my skating) and a group setting isn't the best place to learn, but there were lots of us working on the higher level moves. Plus, Frank demonstrated that you can pick up counters and rockers with a bit of off-ice tutoring. :)

Christine's classes were great, and she spent some extra time talking to me about my funny hip clicking, which it turns out is mostly normal. I liked the peak performance class, but I think she could have related it more to skating. Two of my favorite parts weren't specifically camp related: one was the dinner Saturday night (I'm the one with scar tissue in my knee that you can feel for $1.50), and the other was half an hour on otherwise dead ice with another skater while some of the slackers from my group went to Dunkin Donuts. ;) (Kidding about the slacking part -- for those who weren't there, we'd had ballet, spins, and combination jumps, and were all freezing from the cold rinks). A woman from my rink stayed at my parent's house with me, and she thought that the dinner really changed the whole weekend for her (Susan, the blonde sitting at the end of the table).

I was really impressed with how good a job they did telling the coaches about the levels of each group. I mentioned to Susan on the drive up that Nicolai had used skaters as both good and bad examples in all of the classes he taught, and she said that was not the case in her group (recreational track). It's totally intimidating to be put on the spot, and :bow: times a million to all who were used as the "don't do this" examples for how gracefully the handled the critique.

Don't feed your unicorn, be the tortoise in the wagon, and see you all next year!

[FallDownGoBoom]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but is every bloke at Ice House named Igor?

What's the last name of the Igor who led the Levels 1 and 2 power skating session at 3 on Sunday? I want to observe some more of his lessons and perhaps take some with him myself. He has a certain "I could silence you with my bare hands in 60 ways" quality that I find very appealing in a coach.

[chowskates]

Well this was my 1st time at the camp. I had a lot of fun.

Hey, good to hear you had a good time there :D

[tidesong]

Wow that sounded great overall! Nice to hear all these from you people!!!

[FrankR]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but is every bloke at Ice House named Igor?

What's the last name of the Igor who led the Levels 1 and 2 power skating session at 3 on Sunday? I want to observe some more of his lessons and perhaps take some with him myself. He has a certain "I could silence you with my bare hands in 60 ways" quality that I find very appealing in a coach.

8O LOL!! :lol: I think that's Igor Krokavec.

[FrankR]

Frank, it was so awesome getting to spend some time with you, and thanks for the tip on the pancake spin! I'm really excited to work on it!! Congrats on your new combo jump, too! I wish I'd seen it!


Hey Lauren,

It was great to see you again. :) I hope what I said about the pancake spin helps. I've been working on another sit variation as well that's nowhere near as developed but hopefully it will take shape soon. I'm excited about the new combination. It needs some polish but hopefully it'll work in my program for next season.

Take care,

Frank

[FrankR]

Plus, Frank demonstrated that you can pick up counters and rockers with a bit of off-ice tutoring. :)



Hey Kelli,

I want to thank you profusely for being my off-ice rocker/counter tutor. :) I hope to see you again soon and next year, join the rest of us slackers at Dunkin Donuts. We had a blast. ;)

Frank

[Stormy]

I HAD to slack, my skates were killing me so bad I could barely limp to the ice in them. Once I got on the ice they weren't as bad, but still. :giveup: Plus, wherever there's coffee, I'm THERE! :)

Lauren, it was awesome to meet you, and THANKS for the fan spiral and spread eagle tips! :bow:

[FallDownGoBoom]

My favorite part of this camp is standing back and watching how others accomplish (or don't) what the coaches ask. You identify someone who's doing it reasonably well and invariably, that skater welcomes your questions and is eager to demonstrate. It's just as instructive to watch the folks who aren't quite getting the hang of it and to think, "OK, that flailing arm could be my problem, too."

I can't overstate the joy of skating alongside people who are more or less my same size -- that is, I'm not worrying about running over some 3-foot punk and 6 of her very best friends in the whole wide world.

[skatingatty]

Kelli & Lauren-
Sorry I didn't get to meet you; we should have all had name tags! IceT, I guess I didn't recognize you either, though we competed in the same group at the Peach Classic 2-3 years ago. Man, I had a fabulous time at the camp and am glad I went. So did my friend/roommate Coreen, who did the ice dancing track. Great to see Stormy (congrats on the engagement!) and Frank (killer pancake spins), who got chosen to demonstrate lots of things for our group. If I go again, I'll make sure to arrive Friday during the day instead of after midnight. Being sleep-deprived and woozy did not create the optimum learning environment. I wrote about the camp on my skating blog, http://voiceless.com/skating

Now I'm more motivated to skate again and will be going skating this afternoon to practice what we learned. Have a happy 4th of July everyone! I'll post again when I get my pictures up on the web. :)

[skatingatty]

http://s200.photobucket.com/albums/aa307/skatingatty/

They're in reverse chronological order. Enjoy!

[Ice T]

Skatingatty - thanks for posting your pictures! You look familar from the camp. I was in Group 6. Somehow I never heard about the dinner on Saturday night. :cry: But me and Flutzilla along with two Atlanta skaters had a great dinner out that night.

I agree that it was a blast to be in an all adult skating setting. Thanks, everyone, for being so friendly and making me feel welcome at my first camp. 8-)

[Scarlett]

Just thought a little more about this weekend. From all of those replies who stated how much you loved this camp, I have come to the conclusion that I was in the wrong group. My new question for this years attendees is:
Which competitive group were you in and what elements (jumps, spins, footwork) did the majority of your group work on this weekend? Thanks.

[FrankR]

Just thought a little more about this weekend. From all of those replies who stated how much you loved this camp, I have come to the conclusion that I was in the wrong group. My new question for this years attendees is:
Which competitive group were you in and what elements (jumps, spins, footwork) did the majority of your group work on this weekend? Thanks.

Hi there,

I was in group 8. In this group, just about everyone was landing axel and a good number of us were working on double jumps. In spin class, we spent the majority of the time working on position variations for camel spins and sit spins. In Nikolai's edge quality class, we worked on a few basic concepts regarding depth of edge and then he had us working on counters and rockers.

I am sorry that you did not get the most out of your experience. If you do decide to give it another shot next year (and I hope you do) I really do advise you to speak to someone if you are not comfortable in the group in which you have been placed. One lady that was placed in either group 5 or 6 told me she did not feel challenged and would prefer to spend Sunday with groups 7 and 8 instead. So that's just what she did. She spent Sunday with us and felt much more challenged and got more out of the camp. In previous years, I've seen the opposite situation where someone felt they were placed in a group that was a bit more advanced than they would have preferred and transferred into one of the groups working on more basic elements and felt much more satisfied.

Keep in mind that with as many particpants as there were at the camp (I believe someone told me there were 130 participants this year) it is necessary to divide everyone into groups to budget out ice time and instructors. So they try to divide people into groups based on jumping ability and moves-in-the field tests. This isn't always a straightforward process. As a result, these assignments are never meant to be set in stone. If you feel you would prefer to be in another group just flag down Craig and talk to him. He's always been flexible in allowing skaters to move back and forth between groups.

Take care,

Frank

[skatingatty]

Which competitive group were you in and what elements (jumps, spins, footwork) did the majority of your group work on this weekend? Thanks.

Hi, Scarlett-
I was in group 7 which was combined with Frank's group, and we/I worked on double toes & loops, variations on camel spins and sit spins, and choctaws-rockers-brackets. At least for the combo jumps class, the instructors split us into 2 groups-- one for people who could do a double jump and another for who could not. My section worked on doing multiple loop jumps and a half loop-salchow-toe-loop combo. I thought they could have done a better job breaking us into smaller groups within each class, instead of everyone doing things as a big herd and getting little personalized instruction.

For me, it was a worthwhile and fun experience, not only from the instruction (I got the most out of Edward VanCampen and Adam Rippon's instruction) but also from the time I got to spend w/my skating pal Coreen. We carpooled and shared a room, and since I don't live around DC anymore, it was an opportunity to catch up. It sounds like the recreational group should have been subdivided too, so people wouldn't be bored or frustrated.

[doubletoe]

I HAD to slack, my skates were killing me so bad I could barely limp to the ice in them. Once I got on the ice they weren't as bad, but still. :giveup: Plus, wherever there's coffee, I'm THERE! :)

Lauren, it was awesome to meet you, and THANKS for the fan spiral and spread eagle tips! :bow:


It was wonderful meeting you, too!! Now I have a lovely face (and a name!) to put with your username! Let me know if the spread eagle starts to fall into place for you!

[doubletoe]

Kelli & Lauren-
Sorry I didn't get to meet you; we should have all had name tags! IceT, I guess I didn't recognize you either, though we competed in the same group at the Peach Classic 2-3 years ago. Man, I had a fabulous time at the camp and am glad I went. So did my friend/roommate Coreen, who did the ice dancing track. Great to see Stormy (congrats on the engagement!) and Frank (killer pancake spins), who got chosen to demonstrate lots of things for our group. If I go again, I'll make sure to arrive Friday during the day instead of after midnight. Being sleep-deprived and woozy did not create the optimum learning environment. I wrote about the camp on my skating blog, http://voiceless.com/skating

Now I'm more motivated to skate again and will be going skating this afternoon to practice what we learned. Have a happy 4th of July everyone! I'll post again when I get my pictures up on the web. :)

Sorry I didn't get to meet you, too! I did meet Coreen, though! What a lovely person (and smart! I can't believe how good her Japanese is!). She was kind enough to take pictures of me with Miki Ando and Daisuke Takahashi!

[FallDownGoBoom]

Next year someone's gotta do something about folks from higher levels crashing the lower levels' classes and sucking up the instructors' time. Grrr...