How much do your splits help your spirals?

[liya_skatergirl]

I've been getting my split done a bit lately, and it's helped at least one of my spirals, the catchknee. im still having some trouble with just the classic spiral. haha.

and just for the fun of it, i'll post some pictures of me doing my splits and SOME of my spirals. maybe you could too? :D
http://img39.picoodle.com/img/img39/8/7/1/f_PICT0673m_f61b981.jpg
http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/8/7/1/f_PICT0675m_9b0bdb1.jpg

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/8/7/1/f_PICT0676m_498440e.jpg

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/8/7/1/f_PICT0678m_de30cac.jpg

and here's a real ugly attempt on a biellman position. haha.
http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/8/7/1/f_PICT0682m_1189953.jpg

hope to get some of your pictures too!

((sorry if this is taking up so much space. lol. ))

[Mrs Redboots]

Well done - it looks as though you have great flexibility. And the more you work on it, the more flexible you will become.

[sue123]

I think that strength will help your spirals more than flexibility. I can do splits, but I don't have enough muscle in my back to keep it up.

[jskater49]

"MY" Splits?????

Bwaahahahahaaa........:lol: :lol: :lol:



hope to get some of your pictures too!



Trust me, that's not something you want to see :)

j

[liya_skatergirl]

funny jskater.

you don't have to if you don't want to. ;)

[xofivebyfive]

It's not just being able to do a split on the floor that you need. You also need the back and leg strength to be able to hold up that heavy skate when you lift up your leg. I've seen so many people who are like "look at me I can do splits so my spirals are amazing" and they can barely get it higher than parallel to the ice.

Anyway, I don't have a picture, but I do have a video. It's how a combination of being able to do a split, and practicing holding up my leg in spiral position makes it great.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ugOWJYGKAwE

If you want to see my spiral you can go here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KzIK0MX11N4)( 0:16-0:45) or here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=CzVarOW85z8) (2:26-2:46)

:) Good luck with yours.

[renatele]

Nice work on splits!

It looks to me that at this point, you have to work on flexibility and strength in your back - both will help the spiral position, and with more flexible back, you'll have a gorgeous biellman position.

[WhisperSung]

This is a neat idea! If I can figure out how to use the auto-shoot on my digital camera, I'll post some pictures, too. Maybe we can help with the Biellman position, because I'm still trying to get my back flexible enough to do it!

[peanutskates]

nice flexibility, liya, but on your first spiral picture, your upper body is too low. it should be parallel, or even a little higher then parallel, to the floor.

[SynchroSk8r114]

WhisperSung:
Here's a good exercise for Beilmanns. It's called the Cobra and it's a yoga position that should help you build up the flexibility in your back. You may have heard of/seen it...

http://www.blueprintsolution.com/store/Fitcommerce/cobra.jpg

I also do a lot of backbends (off-ice, of course, but I was once forced to do one on-ice, hahaha! :lol:), which has helped me. If you can't go right into a backbend at first, start in the bridge position (http://www.orientaldancer.net/articles/bridge_stretch.jpg), which will make it a little easier for you!

Also, force yourself to do Beilmanns in tennis shoes off-ice. Yes, stretching helps and alll, but I've found that the best way to achieve that perfect position is just to practice, practice, practice! That's the way I learned how to do one!

Good luck!

[Evelina]

Well done on the splits, you look very flexible! Just a thought though, my pilates trainer would not consider that the true splits as its a cheated one because you move your hip forward, for the true splits (and this is what I am told by her so I go with that seeing how i am not an expert) your hips need to be in line - it is actually a LOT harder to do the splits that way, at least for me, but it does mean when you get it you are very flexible. I think that might help the spiral more as you don't open the hip so much on the spirals - or at least I am told you shouldn't as that cheating.

[Sessy]

Well, I have no splits. My spirals are awful - I barely get 90 degrees... EXCEPT on the bielman! I get that one to my head - purely on back flexibility (due to a missing piece of vertebrae, I guess). I stretch, devotedly, but I only got maybe 5 extra degrees in 1,5 year on my spiral (and on splits, seemingly none). I can get a little more angle if I bend the free leg - with a stretched leg, I almost immediately over-stretch the back of my thighs to the point of pain for over a week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K_B9HzvpGw
and I can get a bit further with skates on (because of a better grip) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3w6QQTf_4w

My splits:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/sessy_liz/Image2.jpg

Not even gonna show my normal spiral, it's ugly as hell.

[tidesong]

The splits should help the side split spiral straight away.

What you need in addition to being able to do a split, is back flexibility (and leg and back strength of course) for the traditional spiral and the beilmann position in a spiral.

So you should practise holding the spiral position off ice with a much more arched back and try to keep your head higher to match it with the traditional spiral position on ice.

I'm in a similar kind of position I can get the similar split to off ice for the side one
http://i8.tinypic.com/6hcqc6d.jpg

but I can't for traditional and beilmann but I'm working on all of them still of course
http://i10.tinypic.com/66web0m.jpg
http://i17.tinypic.com/4rc9474.jpg

[WhisperSung]

Synchrosk8er114: Thank you for the advice! I've been trying the cobra position, and it's very difficult for me still. I've also tried the position where you balance on your forearms, kick your feet over your head (supported usually by a door so I don't break my back) and then try to lower my feet to my head. . .I'm nowhere close, but I suppose that's because I haven't done it a lot lately. I *think* that position also comes from yoga.

Tidesong: I absolutely LOVE your basic spiral position. Just a little bit higher of a free leg will make it Michelle Kwan-esque, IMHO. I think your smile helps, too. It seems enjoyable!

Alright, I goofed around this morning and have some pictures! I'll link to them, because I think they're rather large.

-Basic Split (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/maryanni/Self/IMG_1564.jpg): (not sure why this came out so blurry)

-Basic Spiral (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/maryanni/Self/IMG_1566.jpg) (yeah, my back is way too low still).

-Catch Knee Spiral 1 (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/maryanni/Self/IMG_1571.jpg)

-Catch Knee Spiral 2 (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/maryanni/Self/IMG_1583.jpg)

And then the rest of these are the progression into the biellman position:

-Stretching My Back (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/maryanni/Self/IMG_1569.jpg)

-Biellman 1 (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/maryanni/Self/IMG_1578.jpg)

-Biellman 2 (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/maryanni/Self/IMG_1581.jpg)

Hopefully that wasn't too much. Sorry if it was.

I suppose those aren't real biellman positions, because I was balancing with my other hand on the love seat. It was also difficult to achieve a straight free leg position without my skates on.

One of my main problems with doing it on the ice, though, is catching my arm or the skate with my left hand. I think that requires more back flexibility than what I'm capable of right now (I'm decently flexible on my right side, but my left side just doesn't bend that way yet!). I suppose that means I need to do some stretching exercises that will get my left side up to speed with my right.

And of course I didn't bother to repeat the exercise on my other foot, since I'm nowhere near as flexible on that side. . .yet! ;)

Edited because I had no idea HTML doesn't work on this board. Sorry for anyone who had to witness that massive mess of HTML code just a few moments ago!

[Sessy]

Your normal spiral looks a little like you're about to tumble forward, but, wow your bielman is amazing!

[quarkiki2]

You look like you have enough flexibility to get into a very extended spiral position, but you may not have the lower back strength to hold it without support from your free hand.

Practice arabesques off-ice: lift your free leg out behind you as turned out as you can get it. Lift it as high as possible before you even start tipping your chest. When you tip your chest, think about pulling your shoulders back towards your bum -- this will help you get that pretty champagne-glass arch in your back. The higher you lift your leg, the more you need to pull back with your shoulders, keeping your head in line with the shoulders. Try this off-ice without your skates, off-ice with your skates and, if you have them, off-ice with ankle weights. This should help strengthen your lower back. Hold each of these positions for at least 30 seconds, workng up to a minute.

Some people are born with a lot of static flexibility (ability to stretch a LOT), but not a lot of dynamic strength (ability to hold a position). You *appear* to be one of those. I am a lucky one who can get a spiral to hip height without tipping forward, so I do have to admit that I DON'T tip forward a lot on the ice. When I feel secure and tip, I can get a great position, but that's not terrible often, LOL!

[ouijaouija]

what stretching exercises are you all doing, and how many times a day, how long?

thanks

[WhisperSung]

quarkiki2: Thank you so much for the advice! I knew my back wasn't flexible (figured that one out on my own ;)), but it never really occured to me that I'd need to strengthen my back in order to hold it up high when I do a spiral. I appreciate the advice, and I've already started working on it.

Sessy: Thanks for the compliment. I was really surprised when I saw the pictures, too! Unfortunately, I still can't get that position going while I'm spinning. I'll just have to keep trying, I suppose.

ouijaouija: I'm not sure if your comment is directed at me or someone else, but I'll try to answer.

I'm sort of a sporadic stretcher who's just gotten into it on a more daily basis. I've always been able to do the split on my left side, and my right side is pretty darn close (I'll never get a full middle split, and I've accepted that, because my hips constantly pop out of socket when I try and it hurts!). Basically, I do a combination of yoga and regular stretching. I sit in a V-leg position on the floor and try to bring my chest down over each leg and also into the center. I practice full side splits daily (well, for the last week, at least ;)) and I've been working on spiral positions in front of a mirror and with the catch knee and biellmann positions. I also do bridges for my back and a bunch of backbends (not sure how else to get my back more flexible other than by constantly working on it like that).

I hope that helped a little. I'm not very good at explaining things!

[Ice Artist]

http://a137.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/29/l_8116933cd26449c55f4e299f032c22c8.jpg
Here is my splits and the ending pose for my ice show number :]
http://a836.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/l_32661169d5c1431c65d50dc3d5c07c63.jpg
Here is a side like kinda spiral variation thingy at morning practice
http://a596.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01518/59/52/1518332595_l.jpg
This is my split jump during my test program...kinda a blurry pic.

So yep...There are my spiral/split things :]

[WhisperSung]

Ice Artist: I like the middle picture! I don't know if I'm flexible enough to do that one, but I'd love to try it some day. . .hopefully I wouldn't tip over if I tried it! :P

[AW1]

-Basic Split (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c363/maryanni/Self/IMG_1564.jpg): (not sure why this came out so blurry)

Liya Skatergirl & WhisperSung

Ok here's what I noticed, and it could be part of your problem.

Your splits are not correct splits.

If you notice WhisperSung in this picture, your right hip is much further back than your left hip. Your hips should be square on - ie. both hips pointing to the front like headlights on a car. You've kind of got 1 going forward and the other going way out to the right. For you Liya Skatergirl, you are the opposite I think from looking at your photo.

So you are in essence, trying to do the splits but almost turning your torso to the side at the same time.

If you lift up with one leg at back and one behind, and go down really making note to keep the hips forward you will probably find you cannot reach the ground. It's alot more difficult.

[Sessy]

She's in essense doing Russian splits there right?

[AW1]

She's in essense doing Russian splits there right?

Not really. A russian split is where you have both feet outward to the sides of your body like this.

http://www.zianet.com/Treehouse/splits.jpg

See on this girl, how her back and shoulders are in alignment? This happens when your hips are correctly placed. Now compare that, to the other 2 photos I was referring to, and you will see the difference.

http://www.abc.net.au/southwestwa/galleries/fairbridge2/images/Gymnast-doing-splits.jpg

and also this picture, where this girl is in correct position (from front)

http://image.collegeclub.com/cc2004/production/images/photos/collegeclubsb_splits400300.jpg

In essence, they are basically doing a slightly better version of this - rolling up on one hip. Where if the splits were correct this wouldn't happen.

http://www.levchin.com/images/PayPal/splits.JPG