Sit spin training...off-ice strength building

[Skate@Delaware]

My wish for the past few years has been to do a sit spin. I have tried a zillion times and have NOT been successful in the tiniest bit.

In order to make myself happy (and my coach) I have embarked on a serious training program. Because, I have realized, the lack of success has been due to lack of strength in my legs. Hard to believe, being a skater with good legs! I have not been able to get into and hold the position because my legs don't have sufficient strength in all the right places.

Here is my plan:
1-leg curls and extensions using massive weights (hey, we are skaters and can do this) right now I'm at 125 lbs for extensions and 120 for curls. 2 sets of 8.

2-box or pistol squats aka. one-legged squats. These were introduced to me a few years back (you may remember me mentioning them-I could not do them back then). I have uploaded vids to my (Casey's hosted) site. I also have instructions on these http://tkahline.sk8rland.com/TKahline/Misc%20stuff/box%20pistols.pdf. They are hard. They hurt. They seem to be working! Basically, you stick one leg straight out and squat down on the other, hit bottom and go back up. Easier said than done. I am able to go down and hit bottom and bobble up about an inch....this is where I show in the one vid (it's sideways forgive the way I had to set my cell phone) you use your arms and a pole or something to support you and walk your way back up (i.e. http://tkahline.sk8rland.com/TKahline/Pictures%20and%20Video/Videos/index.php?a=preview&i=walkingpistolexercise.avi). When your strength is better, you use your arms less. When I get there, I will add an old pair of skate (minus blades) to really simulate the situation. For now my heels are on a block. I sort of simulate going into a sit spin with my free leg and going lower at the beginning.

3-Soon I will add back the laying leg presses and no-weight squats. The leg presses will be for all-over strength; the squats (two and one leg version) will be for intrinsic strength and flexibility.

4-In August, I do plan on hitting real ice for some practical training. We will see how it goes....Hopefully, it will go very well.

Thank goodness my knees are sound!!!

I don't know if this is an issue for anyone else. If it is, I hope it helps. If it isn't, I'm glad. I figured, I'm 45 years old and I'd like to have a decent RECOGNIZABLE sitspin by the time I'm 50....at the rate I was going I'd be winning the lotto before that happened!!!

[Debbie S]

Sounds like a plan, S@D! To add a different twist to #2....you could also do the one-legged squats with a free weight (no more than 5 lbs needed) in one hand and go down and then back up, and slowly increase the number of times that you can do it in a row - hold on to a wall with your non-weight hand. You can also do a two-legged squat with your back leaning against a wall and your feet out far enough so that your knees form a 90-degree angle when you slide down - and try to hold the sit spin level position for as long as you can before coming up, and then repeat.

When you get back on the ice, shoot-the-ducks are good too - well, I do a modified shoot-the-duck - I never get that low, but I just try to go down as far as I can with my free leg out, as if in sit spin position, and just hold (and hopefully, I don't fall on my butt - lol). I need to do this on my 'back' leg now. I haven't seen the video yet from the Chesapeake Open 2 weeks ago, but in the pics, it looked like my forward sit has gotten lower...now, I've got to apply that to my back sit.

[Morgail]

Wow, that sounds like a good plan:) I'm tempted to give it a try myself. I've been trying to lower my sit spin forever. It's gotten a little lower (a result of making myself fall while doing it), but I'm picky and want it even lower:twisted:

[peanutskates]

I want a sitspin too! I'm just trying squats and on one leg etc. too

what confuses me: how low do you go? because my shoot-the-duck is as low as physically possible; i.e. like a foetal position with one leg stretched out. but i don't think people do sitspins like that... if anyone can show me a picture of the perfect sitspin position, that would be great! thanks

[Sessy]

I've actually gotten the sit spin, somewhat. Thought I'd never.
A few things I discovered was 1. to lift and keep the free leg straight as it comes around. Then 2. to lift the free leg, this somehow makes it easier on the skating leg to sit down on it.

Also I've got pretty good shoot-the-ducks and hydroblades and that sort of movements, but before I could do those I didn't have the strength either and what I found GREATLY helped for the strength were... lunges. VERY deep lunges, you only need to dip briefly, the getting up part is what builds the strength and the muscle control (it's not just the strength, it's the muscle control of keeping the foot straight and the knee in the same axis as the foot as you get up)

[looplover]

This has really helped me: whenever I get up from my chair at work I always do it getting up one-legged on my spinning leg. It's really helped to strengthen that leg. Now I do that when I'm sitting on the floor as well (which is often - I have an ancient dog).

[Morgail]

what confuses me: how low do you go? because my shoot-the-duck is as low as physically possible; i.e. like a foetal position with one leg stretched out. but i don't think people do sitspins like that... if anyone can show me a picture of the perfect sitspin position, that would be great! thanks

This is what I want, though it may be physically impossible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKsOgVIJYyw
Heehee - I like a good challenge.

But to answer your question - it doesn't have to be that low. I think the rule is that your skating thigh must be parallel to the ice? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Like this (after the camel spin): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDdKNlkCHWw

[Skate@Delaware]

Sounds like a plan, S@D! To add a different twist to #2....you could also do the one-legged squats with a free weight (no more than 5 lbs needed) in one hand and go down and then back up, and slowly increase the number of times that you can do it in a row - hold on to a wall with your non-weight hand. You can also do a two-legged squat with your back leaning against a wall and your feet out far enough so that your knees form a 90-degree angle when you slide down - and try to hold the sit spin level position for as long as you can before coming up, and then repeat.

When you get back on the ice, shoot-the-ducks are good too - well, I do a modified shoot-the-duck - I never get that low, but I just try to go down as far as I can with my free leg out, as if in sit spin position, and just hold (and hopefully, I don't fall on my butt - lol). I need to do this on my 'back' leg now. I haven't seen the video yet from the Chesapeake Open 2 weeks ago, but in the pics, it looked like my forward sit has gotten lower...now, I've got to apply that to my back sit.
Right! In his book & video, Pavel (the dude where I got the one-legged info from) did use kettlebells to help with the rocking up part of the movement and to help build strength. Another place I found on the internet suggested using the trimwork from a doorway or a small tree if you are outside to help you "walk up" from the bottom. I never did many shoot-the-ducks and now it's come back to haunt me!!!!
I've actually gotten the sit spin, somewhat. Thought I'd never.
A few things I discovered was 1. to lift and keep the free leg straight as it comes around. Then 2. to lift the free leg, this somehow makes it easier on the skating leg to sit down on it.

Also I've got pretty good shoot-the-ducks and hydroblades and that sort of movements, but before I could do those I didn't have the strength either and what I found GREATLY helped for the strength were... lunges. VERY deep lunges, you only need to dip briefly, the getting up part is what builds the strength and the muscle control (it's not just the strength, it's the muscle control of keeping the foot straight and the knee in the same axis as the foot as you get up)
I actually like lunges, and if your knees are good (i.e. injury free) you can go deeper IF you use good form! Another exercise that was given to me by the gym trainer: stand in front of a bench, facing away. Put your foot on the bench behind you and with your other leg squat. Wicked hard!!! I will add these probably in August. You do about 2 sets, building up your repititions.

As far as how low to go-my guess is it is up to you! I'd like to be able to go down really far (behind below knee-level).

These are all really good suggestions!!! Keep 'em coming!!!

[looplover]

This is what I want, though it may be physically impossible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKsOgVIJYyw
Heehee - I like a good challenge.



Oh me too. I know a guy in his mid 50s who can do one that low. He said he practices shoot the ducks a lot, but I think he's also got some crazy freak joints.

[Skate@Delaware]

Most guys are going to be stronger than most of us girls...that doesn't mean we won't be able to get a sitspin; it will just take more hard work! Kids have an easier time also (with everything, it seems).

Here is a video clip of me taken this past spring...sorry for the poor quality. I had to use my cell phone (it sucks) since video cameras were "banned" (topic for another thread, I'm afraid).

Anyway, it is not recognizable in the least as a sit spin...it doesn't SIT at all!!!! I'm embarrassed.

http://tkahline.sk8rland.com/TKahline/Pictures%20and%20Video/Videos/?s=Spins

it's the one titled "sitspinspring07"

Hopefully, if this training goes as planned, there will be MUCH improvement!

[rlichtefeld]

But to answer your question - it doesn't have to be that low. I think the rule is that your skating thigh must be parallel to the ice? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Like this (after the camel spin): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDdKNlkCHWw

The rule from ISU Communication #1445 (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=482), is that:

"2. Spins (Single & Pair Skating, Short Program & Free Skating)
Positions: There are 3 basic positions: camel (free leg backwards with the knee higher than the hip level, however Layback and Biellmann are still considered as upright spins), sit (buttocks not higher than the knee of the skating leg), upright (any position with extended skating leg which is not a camel position) and intermediate positions (all positions that according to the above definitions are not camel, sit or upright)."

Rob

[FrankR]

...sit (buttocks not higher than the knee of the skating leg)...


I just had to share a funny story regarding this very rule. My coach and I were working on getting my sit-spin lower last week and he asked me to try a sit-spin so he could see how low I could go. He said I still needed to get a little lower to have it be a legal sit-spin as per the verbage in the new ISU communication but then he followed it up with, and I quote..."You know, if you had a fat, flabby butt, then it would hang below the level of your knee in the sit spin anyway even if you were still a bit high, but since you're skinny, you have to go all the way down."

My reaction: 8O :oops: :lol:

[jazzpants]

I just had to share a funny story regarding this very rule. My coach and I were working on getting my sit-spin lower last week and he asked me to try a sit-spin so he could see how low I could go. He said I still needed to get a little lower to have it be a legal sit-spin as per the verbage in the new ISU communication but then he followed it up with, and I quote..."You know, if you had a fat, flabby butt, then it would hang below the level of your knee in the sit spin anyway even if you were still a bit high, but since you're skinny, you have to go all the way down."

My reaction: 8O :oops: :lol:Blunt, isn't he? ;) http://www.cosgan.de/images/kao/frech/d015.gif

I'll have to learn to get down lower on the sit spin, since even with my big fat, flabby butt I still have to lower my sit spin a bit...LOL!!! And my sit spin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw7ZQ3uEO8k) isn't that bad either. (Just a tad short of the requirement and this clip is 6 months ago so I have no clue how I'm doing now... I know it's a teeny bit lower since but I need a clip to see for myself.)

Squats, squats and more squats!!! (And of course, STRETCH the thighs too before you try going down too... or it's gonna be quite uncomfortable when you DO go down. Guess how *I* know...)

[Sessy]

So we're talking sitting thigh parallel to the ice? Hmmm that's do-able.

I actually got into a total (as in, my butt on my heels) sit spin on my spintrainer yesterday and it just sort of grinded to a halt for lack of momentum... But there wasn't a way in hell I was getting up again. Muscleache today! But kind of a boost of confidence. :lol:

[peanutskates]

I started my sitspin today!

it's ok but I'm nowhere near low enough or getting enough rotations.