Progressing from singles to doubles

[Designdiva]

I've been trying to land a clean axel. Every few jumps, I'll land one clean, the other 90 percent are two-footed.

So, now, my coach says that I'm ready to start working on doubles. I thought for sure she'd teach me a double sal, instead, my first double will be a loop. I was very surprised. She thinks a double loop will help me get a clean checkout on my axel.

Has anyone else moved up to more difficult jumps out of "order."

[kar5162]

Yes...double loop was my first double too. It's the only one I land very often too, though it's still cheated. We started with it because loop is my strongest single jump and one of my biggest problems with the axel (besides fear) was taking off from the left foot and with the loop, you are already over your right side and just pull in (well, aside from the million other things going on :)).

[Designdiva]

OMG, kar5162, I have the same problem. Every now and then I'll rotate around my left side. And wow, talk about some spectacular falls.

I'm pretty much over axel fear. I have moved into what I call the "landing shock" phase. I'm so surprised to have the jump fully rotated that I touch down with my left foot because I need to "feel" where the ice is.

I have a litany of other axel issues: arms too stiff, arms not in, arms swinging to the left, arms blocking, hip not open, stepping too far to the inside of the circle, jumping out, not up, etc. Maybe there should be an axel support group.

[kar5162]

I have landing shock too. I claim I prefer 2 foot landings. :) I like to land everything on two feet. Even when it's very good (for me), I usually touch down quickly with the left and then check out.

My three biggest axel issues are dropping my left shoulder, not staying over my left knee for the take-off (not waiting long enough), and extending my free leg too far behind me instead of keeping it bent so it can go through and up without a wild swinging motion.

[KJD]

Can I join this club too? My axel is pretty clean but I have days where it takes me about 10 tries to get it and then they are fine and days where they are fine right off the bat. I seem to alternate weeks. It drives me nuts. I don't two foot very often but my landings bounce even though they are all the way around because I get stiff.

We have been working on doubles for a month or two now - since my axel has been better. We started with the salchow, and I can now land maybe one a session. But we are going to skip the toe-loop and go to the loop as it is also my favorite jump. We have only done exercises for it so far - but I'm excited to try! My coach wants me to focus on the Gold Moves test which I am taking the end of October before we get excited about the double loop.

[LoopLoop]

My axel is still cheated all of the time, but I started double loop at the beginning of the summer and double sal about a month ago. My coach's reasoning was that the loop is my strongest single, so it was a good way to move into doubles. We are going to skip the double toe altogether for the time being and start double flip soon.

I've come really close on the double loop, and my coach thinks I'll get it before the axel or double sal.

[Designdiva]

I've come really close on the double loop, and my coach thinks I'll get it before the axel or double sal.

That's really interesting. I see kids at my rink who can't do clean axels, yet are trying double lutz, loop and flip. It is good to know that this technique works with adults too.

KJD, has your axel improved since you started working on the sal or was it getting better on its own?

[kar5162]

Oh the technique definitely works with adults...at least me. I land still somewhat cheated double loops, sometimes pretty clean though. Before I was injured this summer I was landing doubles sals pretty well. Axel will occasionally work correctly, but more often then not it goes screwy...I have ligament damage in my left knee, which makes the take off very difficult...it I'm feeling the least bit sore or tight there the axel goes straight away. We've started double flip too and I can rotate it quite often, but can't figure out yet how to check out...almost did in my lesson on Thursday, so we'll see how it goes. Like LoopLoop I don't do double toes. Actually we did start them once or twice, but it was fairly unsuccessful. It's probably my weakest single and it's definitely the jump that bothers my knee the most, so for now it's on hold.

[flo]

I started working on the double sal first, then the axel. I liked working on the double sal because I could go into it with speed. I just don't have a good feelig for the axel. We also started on double sals first as we were working on throw double sals. I think the next will be a double loop.

[KJD]

Designdiva,
You know that's a good question. I think it was starting to improve on its own a bit though. My axel work has been a bit weird so I'm not sure its a good indicator. I was landing it one footed but a quarter turn short really consistantly through the winter (we started it last summer) and then I kind of "lost it". I tore my right calf muscle 2 weeks before adult nationals and was off the ice for 4 weeks and then 3 weeks of no jumping once back on. Once we started it again, I fell a lot more than I ever had but the jumps were much further around. Then all of a sudden I got it but only standing on the line. Its only been since about July that I could do it moving. And as I said, I had like 3 weeks where I didn't miss any and then the last two weeks have been more of a struggle. My issues are mostly mental with it. But I always land 6 or 7 a session, it just sometimes is there right away and sometimes needs the kinks worked out. My big issue seems to be hooking the take off. When I'm a little unsure that happens and I don't get it right.

On the other hand the double sal seemed easier to start with. I landed 3 the first day we did them. We haven't worked on them at all since the first week or so until the last maybe two weeks. I had one great day last week where I landed all my axels including in my program and several double sals and thats when we started talking double loops. The double sal seems to rotate so much easier. If I just stay calm through the take off and go up then pull in, I'm all the way around like nothing. Its weird. My axel goes up pretty well but I have to really think my way through all the steps.

[Chico]

Oh my, I also go weeks doing the toe tap thing on my axel! I get all the way around and then for some reason I do that stupid tapping thing. I have mental battles fighting the urge to do this. I finally win it, and then fall back to my tapping days. Sigh..... My first double was the 2 sal, and I found this improved my axel. It's also easier for me to land clean consistently. Go figure. I want to work on the 2 loop with coaches help BAD. Even though this is my best jump my coach is FIRM about learning things in this order. (2 sal-2 toe-2 loop-2 flip-2 lutz-2 axel) I WANT to learn a 2 loop, and could care less about the stupid order. I'm an adult on a limited time budget.

Chico

[Moto Guzzi]

Designdiva and kar5162, I have the same problem of touching my free foot down on axels. My coach says I have good technique on the axel and says I don't need to tap my free foot, but I can't seem to break this habit. I think I'm just a big coward and use that free foot as a security blanket. The first double I landed was the salchow, but I rarely land it on one foot. I have worked some on a double toe but only sporadically after having knee surgery. When I worked on it on a regular basis, it was an all or nothing jump. I either landed it on one foot or nearly killed myself slamming down on it.

I don't like loops and have only worked on a double very briefly and that was several years ago. We have several adults at my rink who are working on one, but none of them come close to doing the full rotation. They overrotate the takeoff before leaving the ice and then land on a forward inside edge and do a quick 3-turn so both the takeoff and landing are cheated.

I'm less brave about trying doubles than I used to be. The body doesn't heal that quickly anymore. Yes, I'd like to have a consistent double sal and double toe. Realistically, though, I think that's probably not going to happen. It's fun to try anyway.

:lol:

[Designdiva]

It is funny that we have the confidence to launch ourselves into the air with knives attached to our feet, yet not the confidence to just stand up on just *one* of those knives. :)

When I've done clean axels, it has been when I've thought about it the least. When I try to analyze why the jump worked, the next one has me sprawled into the boards.

So my next question to those of you who try and do higher-end jumps: How do you keep your singles from going wonky? For example since I've been seriously trying to get the axel, the lutz — which is my best jump — has been become terribly overrotated, especially in combinations. Same goes for my loop. Unless I really concentrate I miss the checkout and end up on my left inside edge.

[tidesong]

I'm also doing axels, double sal and double toe.
My axels have on and off days, but I land at least a couple each session even if they have wonky landings, but I do land them... (sorry, have to reassure myself somethimes :) )
My axel started off two footing. and progressed
My double sal is forever two footed at the moment.
My double toe is at best a one and a half toe... :)

How to prevent singles from going wonky?
I have to start delaying my take offs. I.e. go really UP first before closing in... especially when you have alot of air time, it is very easy to overrotate.

[flo]

My double sal toe tap is making me nuts. The revolutions are not a problem, just the landing. I think it's the security factor, and that I get scrunched in the air, and am not as elongated as I could be. Something my coach told my Saturday was to have the check come more from the abdomen, and not the arms. This helped me not to be bent forward. I had the best doubles that day - and good landings.

[melanieuk]

I've landed several axels, short on rotation by a little.
I haven't been doing them for weeks and weeks because I splatted on my chin. :roll:
I have never tried a double.