What made a spin "click" for you?

[Sessy]

In the length of this topic: http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=24051

I'm more curious about the spins though, since I can't seem to get them centered. What made a spin click for you?

[xofivebyfive]

Um. Spins in general? I don't know, sometimes they're centered sometimes they aren't. On tape, the ones that aren't very centered, my curve into the spin is shorter than the ones where it is centered. So I guess holding the edge longer before the 3turn helps.

Sitspins- Your right arm and leg should snap to the front at the same time.

Camel spin- Really deeply bent skating knee, and free leg should be straight as soon as you push into the spin.

sit-change-sit- when you switch feet, you have to push off with your left foot, you can't just switch. And you right arm should go back, and then once you've switched, snap your arm to the front.

[Morgail]

Let's see...(everything is in CCW terms)

For the scratch spin: A deeply bent knee going into the spin, snapping the right arm and leg around to the front/side at the same time (with both bent), holding that position for a couple of revolutions, and then bringing the right arm and leg in and down at the same time (as though they are connected by a string).

Sit spin: A good snap in with the right arm and leg works well with this spin also. Be sure to pull your free leg in all the way to your spinning leg (so that they are touching). Entering it on a deeply bent knee helps me get lower right away, and then letting myself go as low as possible and then falling helped with lowering the spin.

Backspin: Bringing in the free leg and arms right away, rather than trying to hold them out as I do in a forward scratch spin. That was the only way I could get this spin to rotate. Also, remembering to stand up straight and not hunch over, and thinking of spinning on my right pinky toe helped.

Camel spin: I don't think mine has really clicked yet...it's there, but not in a consistent, strong, a-ha! way.

Sit-change-sit: Mine still isn't great, but I finally got some rotations out of the backsit by giving a little push onto my backsit foot (as if I were going into a back scratch spin) and opening up my arms as I'm changing feet.

[Sessy]

Might as well add my own experience by the way, for all the spins I have to focus on sort of pulling in my hips from BEFORE the final edge. I've got this very strong S-shape in my back (I don't know if it's overcompensation from a spine injury higher up or if it's just natural) kind of like I was trying to stick my butt out. So I have to pull my butt in - kind of like a cat sticking their tail between their legs - if I wanna spin...
Also I find the sit spin works best if you swing around pretty high, not by the ground...

When I figure out how to center, I'll let ya know LOL!

[Summerkid710]

Sharp blades often made a world of difference for me.

[tidesong]

I have to pull my behind in too lol.... its something I have to do during ballet too, helps me to keep my cg in a smaller area so I can control it better.
I also have to focus on the tension before the spin and then relax into the spin.. not a complete woah relax but I have to be relaxed relative to the wind up tension...
Also getting my weight over the spinning leg helps too...
Its very hard for me to talk in words for spins in particular because they've gotten quite instinctive for me. There's probably alot of stuff I'm missing out talking about here unless I get on the ice, try the spin and then write while I still remember what I did... hahahaha

[flo]

For the camel-jump camel, it helps me to think of a pull butterfly, so I keep my upper body in one place.
The layback came well, but the scratch and sit.......I think I'm still waiting for the "click"!

[SynchroSk8r114]

THE LOLLIPOP
To help center any spin practice this exercise on an axis (red, blue line, etc.):

Assuming you spin CCW (if not, just reverse the directions, arms, legs, etc.)

1. Standing on an axis in t-position, push off using your right foot. Your skating leg is your left leg then...
2. Bend your skating leg deeply (I can't emphasize that enough!) while keeping your right arm over top the circle and in front of you and your left arm back, as well as your free leg (right leg) behind your right hip. This will create a deep edge that takes you back to your axis.
3. Once your edge curves back to the axis, stay down in your knee for 1-1.5 revolutions, which will hook your spin and center it, and then rise up slowly but completely (unless you're doing a sit spin, of course! ;)).

If you do this exercise correctly, what you should get pattern-wise on the ice is something that looks like a lollipop on a bent stick, hence the name. I tell my students to think of that and it makes a world of difference. Just remember: bend, bend, bend! :D

[southernsk8er]

i've struggled with every spin, especially with being centered. stupid camel spin...

anyway, i'm interested in this lollipop exercise, but i don't quite understand it. i thought right arm was supposed to be back and left arm in front in a spin, but you said right arm in front and left shoulder back. can you explain more about the arms?

[Morgail]

anyway, i'm interested in this lollipop exercise, but i don't quite understand it. i thought right arm was supposed to be back and left arm in front in a spin, but you said right arm in front and left shoulder back. can you explain more about the arms?

This is interesting, as I've always entered spins with the left arm in front and then pushing the left arm around as I hooked the spin. Lately, my coach has been wanting me to enter with my left arm/shoulder back already and right arm in front, so that when I hook the spin, my arms remain in the same place. This is really hard for me, but I like the way it looks because it avoids the twisted-up look you get otherwise.

[SynchroSk8r114]

i've struggled with every spin, especially with being centered. stupid camel spin...

anyway, i'm interested in this lollipop exercise, but i don't quite understand it. i thought right arm was supposed to be back and left arm in front in a spin, but you said right arm in front and left shoulder back. can you explain more about the arms?

Sure. There's been a lot of debate over this between coaches at my rink, but here's why I say to keep your right arm in front (CCW spinners only):

***Just to clarify, I'm not talking about the wind-up for a spin from back crossovers. I'm applying this exercise to the point where you would step forward into your spin. Arms do not matter so much on the wind-up; I say right arm in front the moment your skating foot steps forward***

Keeping the right arm in front as you take the entrance edge into the spin helps you stay over your circle. Think of when you do forward crossovers, for example. You wouldn't do CCW crossovers with your left arm in front because it would misalign you and make it harder for you to stay over the circle and in the correct position. Same thing applies to the spin entrance. You won't be able to make it back to your axis (in the exercise, especially) if you have your left arm in front. All that will happen when you do that is that you're going to drift and drift and drift away, making it nearly impossible to hook and center the spin. (Check out my Paint drawing for explanation.) That's my logic and that of others at my rink who agree with me. I've listened to coaches who llike the left arm in front, but have yet to see any benefits to the left arm in front. I've coached under PSA Master-rated coaches, who all emphasize the right arm leading into spins, so...

Traveling happens when you:
1. do not bend deeply enough on the entrance edge into the spin
2. do not have your body over the edge (incorrect lean) - left arm in front can cause this
3. do not keep your free leg behind your body, letting it swing around you instead
4. rise up too soon by not staying down for those 1-1.5 revolutions

I did a very rough drawing of the pattern (right and wrong) on Paint, so hopefully that'll clarify what I'm talking about. Unforunately, as with most things, it's easier to understand if you see it in real-life, hahaha...:lol:

http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb141/SynchroSk8r114/Skating%20Exercises/?action=view&current=CorrectLollipopEx.png

Anyway, the black line shows the correct pattern; blue line is incorrect patttern that leads to traveling. As indicated by the blue line, having the left arm in front, which leads to a more shallow curve, results in a 3-turn that has a large second half to the turn and then travels. My students used to do that (the long secodn half of the 3-turn), but this exercise made a mega difference, as well as keeping the right arm in front, left arm/shoulder pressing back.

Hope this helped!

[cherriee]

SynchroSk8r114, your drawing is excellent... excellent! Thanks for that. I'll remember to try it out next time.

I have that not having "your body over the edge (incorrect lean)" problem quite often. It led to an out-of-control spin.