Is entry level coaching possible near Maryland?

[Query]

There are no legal certification requirements
for coaches, but near me, rinks expect
coaches to be at a fairly high competitive or
test level.

I like to think I skate with some measure of
grace and speed, and can support an unsteady
skater. I have some teaching experience in another
sport.

I'd love to teach entry level adults.

Is this is a realistic goal? As stated, it isn't
near where I live, but I wonder whether it might
be in less popular places.

I'm an adult male who has tested the first
3 ice dances (USFSA), which is all the skating
skills I need to get PSA certification and PSA
insurance. With a few months hard work I
might perhaps pass the next 2 or 3 dances.
Serious freestyle is out of my league.

Of course it takes a fair bit of time, money
and work to pass the other components
of a PSA test.

For that matter, are PSA cert and insurance
needed at places with lower requirements?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

(Tried post first on rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational; someone suggested this forum would more appropriate.)

[Scarlett]

If you willing to do Tots and maybe a lower level adult class then possibly. It all depends on the needs of the ice rink. The good news is that for such a small state, Maryland has a very large number of rinks with LTS programs. www.marylandiceskating.com is a good place to start.

Good luck.

[phoenix]

You should start by asking to work as an apprentice for a group Learn To Skate program. Seriously, you aren't ready to teach private lessons yet. PSA certification level aside (which I have strong objections to), you just don't have the background/experience yet to teach anything but beginning skating.

As you work in the group classes, esp. if they have you work as an assistant to start, you'll pick up a lot about teaching skating skills, what to look for, how to correct things, etc. Tell them you're interested in working w/ adults, & they'll probably put you w/ adult classes.

Meanwhile, keep working on your own skating, and keep testing. You should do some MIF testing as well. If you want to help elsewhere, you could offer partnering services to another coach who needs a male partner for their students, which would give you more partnering experience. Again, I would not charge for that service; consider it part of your training/investment for the future.

Personally, IMO a coach shouldn't teach ice dance until they're at least working through their silver dances. That's the level where the technique really has to be there to get any tests passed. And the level where most skaters start to really understand it all.

I coach ice dance & moves, and have been teaching for 9 years. I started as a helper for a group ice dance class. I was a helper for 2 years (unpaid) before I got my own classes, & it was another year or so before I got my first private student. (and I, too, had an extensive teaching background in other sports)

Also, fyi, at the rinks where I teach you don't have to carry your own PSA insurance unless you teach privates. If you're just doing group lessons you may not need it--check w/ the rink.

Hope that's helpful.

[littlekateskate]

As for an adult who doesnt know how to skate. I would love to find someone at your level to teach me and hopefully it would be at a cheaper rate. I keep putting skating away for myself due to cost. I dont want to pay the same price for myself a lesson as I do for my daughter who skates. I wish there were more "coaches" out there willing to do that. :)

I know that doesnt help your question but wanted to share that I would be more than willing as a person to take lessons from someone not so highly tested.

[dbny]

I am not a high level skater and never will be (not disparaging myself, just too old to get there now). I started teaching LTS 6 years ago through a lucky break with a new school. I then got a break at another school by asking to watch the Mommy & Me class. I was allowed to help, and was hired the following season. I watch other coaches every chance I get, and have learned a lot from my students also. I now teach groups of tots through adults and also give private lessons to all ages. Although I've only passed Pre-Preliminary moves, I have technical knowledge far beyond that from my childhood roller dance and from watching my daughers' lessons and studying the PSA MIF videos. My roller background allows me to know what is going on most of the time, even when I can't hear what a coach is actually saying. I have the PSA BA under my belt, but have to add that the PSA never asked me about my own skating!

I think adult skaters have something special to bring to other adults. I've seen a lot of coaches who skated all their lives tell adult beginners to do things that were not particularly safe for them, and to fail to stress important issues. For example, I do not think adults should begin to skate with "airplane" arms. They should have their arms and hands lower (about belly button height) and slightly in front. When teaching the snowplow stop, I've seen coaches fail to stress pushing the knees down and keeping the arms forward. This can be a bad fall for an adult. Finally, when my adult students tell me they are scared, I can truly say that I've been there, and that they would be crazy if they didn't have some fear.

Go for it, and good luck!

(BTW, littlekateskate, I charge more than some higher level coaches! What I do is every bit as important.)

[Query]

To clarify: of course a pre-bronze dance can't teach ice dance.

I'm talking ISI alpha/beta type level.

To littlekateskate who seeks cheap private lessons: No one can teach at rinks without their permission. Hmm... Ask your daughter to teach you! Start with gentle falls. She will be much amused, though she may not be the best adult teacher. Does your rink have group lessons catering to adults? A great starting point too. If she is pre-teen and you've a sense of humour, your daughter can watch and give "helpful" comments.

[jskater49]

As for an adult who doesnt know how to skate. I would love to find someone at your level to teach me and hopefully it would be at a cheaper rate. I keep putting skating away for myself due to cost. I dont want to pay the same price for myself a lesson as I do for my daughter who skates. I wish there were more "coaches" out there willing to do that. :)

I know that doesnt help your question but wanted to share that I would be more than willing as a person to take lessons from someone not so highly tested.

OTHH I'm a pretty low level adult skater myself and I used to think I didn't need as experienced/expensive coach as my daughter - but after taking from my daughter's coach, I realized, I actually do better with a more experienced coach because she knows how to explain things a million ways and break each element down.

This is just to add to the mix that a lower level skater is not necesarily a good match for a less experienced coach. My daughter actually does better with her less experienced dance coach than me because she gets things pretty quickly.

j

[littlekateskate]

Sorry to thread jack this... But its not that I dont think I need a well experienced coach. I just would rather spend more money on a better coach for my daughter who is "taking it more serious" . I am not out there to compete like she is. But I do wish I could find a 15 or 16 year old who could and would be willing to teach me the basics at a much cheaper price. And then let my daughter work with the 90.00 an hour coach. I didnt mean to belittle your job or experience. Sorry If I offended anyone.

And neither of the rinks my daughter skates at give adult group :(

[SynchroSk8r114]

I think that you're expectations are realistic considering the test you completed and your stated skating ability. You're not trying to teach higher than you can skate, which is where I feel many problems with coaching arise, so why not go for it?

Try starting out by apprenticing with Learn to Skate classes. That's how I got started at 14 (young, I know, but oh well...). It's been 7 years (I'm 21 now) and have worked my way up slowly from an apprentice to a helper in group lessons (tots-freestylers) to a full-time group instructor on my own and finally began teaching privately as well at the age of 16. I love teaching; it's so rewarding and the pay is great because you can charge what ever you want (added bonus). And because I'm still learning myself and trying to further my own skating by testing the rest of my Pre-Gold/Gold dances and a few freestyle tests still, I'm able to up my rates when I pass tests, get certain recognitions, etc. For instance, after passing my Senior MIF in 2005, I felt more confident in my ability to teach MIF so I upped my rates. Once I pass my last dances (hopefully by this fall), I plan on increasing my rates again. In the end, I always try to make sure that I'm charging what I feel I'm worth...

The best advice I can give you is to def. join the PSA. I'm a member and it's very beneficial, esp. with the insurance and all. At my rink, even if you teach group lessons only, you must have be either an USFS/ISI member and a member of the PSA. Plus, joining the PSA will look good for you because it shows you care about furthering your skating education and getting certified, which is very valuable to any facility, as well as your students and yourself.

Also, you should really try and get as many dances as you can passed. At least where I'm from (Western PA), good male dance partners are rare. People here pay big money to have a guy partner their dances (myself included, hahaha!) If nothing else, you can at least train yourself to partner the lower level dances until you get higher up...it would be very beneficial for you to maybe hook up with a reputable dance coach at your rink or in your area to sit in on their lessons...

Good luck with this!

[dbny]

But I do wish I could find a 15 or 16 year old who could and would be willing to teach me the basics at a much cheaper price. (

I think that's a potentially dangerous choice. Kids that age who are coaching have been skating long enough that they don't remember learning the basics, and don't have enough experience to make up for it. They also don't have a decent understanding of much more easily an adult can get hurt and of how much longer it takes an adult to heal. Instead of looking for a kid to teach you, maybe you could find another adult at about your skill level who could share semi-private lessons with you.

[SynchroSk8r114]

I disagree, dbny. Most kids at that age (15/16) are required, if a member of the PSA, to coach under the supervision of a more experienced coach, although I can see where a problem could arise for younger coaches who are not members of the PSA or who are not forced to be supervised. I started coaching at 14 (7 years ago) and so have many other coaches I know and I do not personally find that any of us have forgotten the basics.

The membership for coaches under 17 through the PSA is called:
"K - intern: refers to a coach 16 or 17 years of age who is mentored by a senior-rated coach or higher, carries liability insurance and must attend at least one PSA Seminar or Workshop..." - That's taken directly from the PSA handbook. The PSA is doing well in making sure that younger coaches are not forgetting anything by forcing them to go under a senior-rated coach (which is one heck of a rating to get, so you know they're good!), attend educational seminars, carry insurance, continue to learn about the sport, etc.

I do, however, agree that some younger kids do not have the experience of working with adults to understand how to best work, communicate, and prevent injuries with adults. In that case, yes - I think that most adult skaters relate better to more mature (older) coaches; however, younger coaches can do a great job with beginning skaters or younger children. I guess it all depends on the supervision, training, etc. each individual coach gets.

[Query]

To Littlekateskate:

I've taken from a lot of coaches. Some worked better for me than others. Young coaches can be good too.

The best athletes learned young, by methods that work best young or in others who learned sports young, and have trouble teaching people who learn old - but that isn't always true either.

Most adults start to learn from group lessons, and that works perfectly fine up to some level. The ones designed for adults are best for most of us. Consider it. It costs much less, and you make skating friends. Heck, get a bunch of skating moms you like together, hire a coach, and go for it. If the coach doesn't work out, hire another.

Lessons for little kids are designed around short attention spans, the ability most kids have to quickly imitate complex moves they see, and a lack of fear. Most adults need to spend more time on each skill, they need to figure things out, and may not be able to imitate what they only see. They must break complex moves up into little pieces, balance is less intuitive, and they are afraid of falling.

If you take privates, help your teacher figure out what works best for you! If you want to stay with one move until you've figured it out, tell them. If you need them to break it up into pieces, or explain why they do something some way, tell them. If you don't know how to fall right, tell them. And so on. If a coach can't adapt, find another. Watch them teach other adults to see if they can. (For group lessons too.)

Fear is hard to deal with. When it comes to falling you can learn and practice to do it right - see

http://www.geocities.com/grunes/falling.html

That's why I jokingly suggested you ask your daughter to teach you how. (But if you can teach your daughter how to teach you the beginnings, she could some day be a better coach! She might enjoy teaching you the beginnings. But you both have to be able to laugh.) 99% of falls is relaxation, spreading stuff out through your body, padding and gloves. The main way a beginner can be hurt is if they don't learn or don't practice falls enough to do it right in the somewhat less than a second it takes to hit the ice.

The longer you wait to start skating, the harder it will be. Why wait?

[Skittl1321]

Fear is hard to deal with. When it comes to falling you can learn and practice to do it right - see

http://www.geocities.com/grunes/falling.html



Wow- that website needs to be posted onto the Skaters side of the board! What a great resource.

[twokidsskatemom]

Sorry to thread jack this... But its not that I dont think I need a well experienced coach. I just would rather spend more money on a better coach for my daughter who is "taking it more serious" . I am not out there to compete like she is. But I do wish I could find a 15 or 16 year old who could and would be willing to teach me the basics at a much cheaper price. And then let my daughter work with the 90.00 an hour coach. I didnt mean to belittle your job or experience. Sorry If I offended anyone.

And neither of the rinks my daughter skates at give adult group :(

I dont mean to be a downer, but Im not sure how you think your 3year old pre alpha is taking anything serious.You have no idea if she wants to compete or how she will feel in 6 months, a year, two years.
I think if you want to learn how to skate, this would be the time to do it !!Your daughter doesnt need a 90.00 hour coach.
And yes, I have been though it, both my skaters started early.:) and competed early, and still do 4 years later.

[CanadianAdult]

I coach learn to skate in Canada. That's the CanSkate program. To be able to do this, I had to take sports theory, first aid, a 3 day classroom course, make a session music CD and a big workbook. Skating wise I had to have at least all my preliminary tests for the privilege of teaching backwards swizzles mostly. I've done all those tests,and more, as an adult. I'm somewhere around USFSA silver.

However, by the time I took the courses I was already coaching, just unpaid. I volunteered as a program assistant for four years, and for the past two years have mentor coached with someone. Basically if I'm not coaching or skating myself, I'm following someone else around. I still have a lot to learn. The hardest part to learn was how to partner dance and it's something I need to learn if I want to coach privates. My mentor coach provides some opportunities but mostly I practice "being the man" with my fellow adults.

I might finish out my level 1, I've done the workbook and obviously enough mentoring, but I have no real desire to teach privates. I like teaching groups in their first introduction to the ice. Like others, I've got extensive coaching experience in another sport and have experience with special needs. I'd really like to coach Special Olympics if the opportunity arose, that would be the only thing to make me finish my level 1.

And, as a coach, I am best teaching the things that were the hardest for me, and because I learned as an adult, that's most of it!

[Skate@Delaware]

I disagree, dbny. Most kids at that age (15/16) are required, if a member of the PSA, to coach under the supervision of a more experienced coach, although I can see where a problem could arise for younger coaches who are not members of the PSA or who are not forced to be supervised. I started coaching at 14 (7 years ago) and so have many other coaches I know and I do not personally find that any of us have forgotten the basics.

The membership for coaches under 17 through the PSA is called:
"K - intern: refers to a coach 16 or 17 years of age who is mentored by a senior-rated coach or higher, carries liability insurance and must attend at least one PSA Seminar or Workshop..." - That's taken directly from the PSA handbook. The PSA is doing well in making sure that younger coaches are not forgetting anything by forcing them to go under a senior-rated coach (which is one heck of a rating to get, so you know their good!), attend educational seminars, carry insurance, continue to learn about the sport, etc.

I do, however, agree that some younger kids do not have the experience of working with adults to understand how to best work, communicate, and prevent injuries with adults. In that case, yes - I think that most adult skaters relate better to more mature (older) coaches; however, younger coaches can do a great job with beginning skaters or younger children. I guess it all depends on the supervision, training, etc. each individual coach gets.
the problem with having a teenager teach is not the inability to communicate, it's the lack of experience overall. At the rink I work at (and skate at) the teenage instructors do work under the supervision of a coach but that means the coach is there teaching his/her class, which is a different class from the teen instructor. It all depends on what is required by the rink & organization.

Most of the time it's no big deal, everyone starts off with Snowplow Sam 1 class. There are issues, however, when you have a teenager trying to teach an advanced class, such as Freestyle 1-6...they might not be competent at that level themselves (I have seen this). They also do not have the "people" skills in dealing with the different types of learners (visual, auditory, proprioceptive, blended, etc) or handling emotional traumas from students and/or parents. Some are only able to teach one way. Recognizing problems is difficult for them. This is a generalization and I am not picking on anyone. We have one fantastic teen instructor and one that is mediocre. It's up to the parent's to educate themselves on how to pick a good instructor/coach.

[SynchroSk8r114]

It's up to the parents to educate themselves on how to pick a good instructor/coach.

I couldn't agree with you more!

[UDsk8coach]

I'm from the MD area and yes, there are plenty of opportunities for you to coach, it just depends where & what rink you'll be teaching at. Some rinks are more lax about who they use than others, but always talk to the skating director first.

Good luck!!

[Query]

As an update on this, see this post

http://skatingforums.com/showpost.php?p=340585&postcount=13