New Spiral, does it have a name?

[Jeanne D]

I'd like to start working on a different type of spiral, not sure what they call this one. It starts on a BO edge, the leg goes up and out to the side, slightly forward instead of back. Does this spiral have a name (side spiral)?

Now that I've sharpened my skates I can try it. While practicing in the kitchen I noticed I've got to get my quad muscles into better shape and much stronger. Also, some skaters lean back, others remain more upright. Dick Button seems to think that Kimmie Miesner's is the best because she doesn't drop her hip.

Anyone else working on this type of spiral?

[techskater]

It's called a fire hydrant. This will no longer be a feature this year in a spiral sequence unless in a full split, by the way. I am thankful of that because only a couple skaters make it look nice, the rest have really ugly looking ones (hence the name)

[SynchroSk8r114]

It's called a fire hydrant. This will no longer be a feature this year in a spiral sequence unless in a full split, by the way. I am thankful of that because only a couple skaters make it look nice, the rest have really ugly looking ones (hence the name)

Hahaha, it's just an unattractive position. There's no good angle to capture it from, especially on TV...:lol:

[Skittl1321]

I thought it was called a fan spiral. In dance, that position is part of a fan kick.

Is this what you are talking about?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Skid-spiral2.jpg/88px-Skid-spiral2.jpg

And to get credit now it has to be in full split?
Like this?- http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/2003campbell/ac07.jpg (except that one isn't unsupported like the first one, and it's also not to the front- but is this what we are talking about when we say full split? Seems to me the unsupported part makes it a strength issue and not just flexibility)

Are those even the same spiral? The second one is an even uglier position to me-it's boring and just a "look how high I can get my leg to be".
Or is it still expected to be unsupported? Because, quite honestly even for the olympic level skaters, that would be amazing.

Edit:
because I think I get the "full split" thing- not necessarily a complete split, but both legs straight- like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Xu_Binshu_Spiral_-_2006_Skate_Canada.jpg ?


I have to agree that Kimmie's is better (although the one on wikipedia makes it look like she is halfway to raising or lowering her leg) the dropped hip on the one above, from a ballet view at least, is very distracting, even if her legs are in a better (straighter) position than Kimmie's.

[Award]

I thought it was called a fan spiral. In dance, that position is part of a fan kick.

Is this what you are talking about?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Skid-spiral2.jpg/88px-Skid-spiral2.jpg


Bigger picture.... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Skid-spiral2.jpg

[Jeanne D]

It's called a fire hydrant. This will no longer be a feature this year in a spiral sequence unless in a full split, by the way. I am thankful of that because only a couple skaters make it look nice, the rest have really ugly looking ones (hence the name)

LOL! That's hilarious!

[Jeanne D]

I thought it was called a fan spiral. In dance, that position is part of a fan kick.

Is this what you are talking about?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Skid-spiral2.jpg/88px-Skid-spiral2.jpg

And to get credit now it has to be in full split?
Like this?- http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/2003campbell/ac07.jpg (except that one isn't unsupported like the first one, and it's also not to the front- but is this what we are talking about when we say full split? Seems to me the unsupported part makes it a strength issue and not just flexibility)

Are those even the same spiral? The second one is an even uglier position to me-it's boring and just a "look how high I can get my leg to be".
Or is it still expected to be unsupported? Because, quite honestly even for the olympic level skaters, that would be amazing.

Edit:
because I think I get the "full split" thing- not necessarily a complete split, but both legs straight- like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Xu_Binshu_Spiral_-_2006_Skate_Canada.jpg ?


I have to agree that Kimmie's is better (although the one on wikipedia makes it look like she is halfway to raising or lowering her leg) the dropped hip on the one above, from a ballet view at least, is very distracting, even if her legs are in a better (straighter) position than Kimmie's.

I like Kimmie's and did think that this spiral had it's origin in ice dance.

I think it's very attractive when wearing pants. 8-)

Ilia Kulik has a nice one, I've seen Kurt perform it well. The style is different from Kimmie's but very attractive. I'm not a fan of the full split kind. I have a funny story about that. One Saturday afternoon I took a friend to the Harvard show. We're sitting there watching the skaters. This pair team comes out and just as the woman skater gets in front of us she lifts her leg to a full split, going forwards. My friend said on cue "well hello there"!.

Makes me laugh every time I think about that! Thank you for the links.

[techskater]

I thought it was called a fan spiral. In dance, that position is part of a fan kick.


A fan spiral actually fans back from that position creating the effect of a paper fan that's drawn. The position in front (itself) has been described as the hydrant spiral or fire hydrant spiral by most people working on them around here.

[Jeanne D]

Hahaha, it's just an unattractive position. There's no good angle to capture it from, especially on TV...:lol:

It looks great when captured from behind. ;) Good move to do wearing pants....maybe!

[Sessy]

I like the way it looks - from any angle. Although if I'd have to describe it in Russian, the word razkariachka is the first that comes to mind. Russian-speaking folks will get what I mean. :lol:

[renatele]

I like the way it looks - from any angle. Although if I'd have to describe it in Russian, the word razkariachka is the first that comes to mind. Russian-speaking folks will get what I mean. :lol:

http://skating.zachariahs.com/icons/laughinghard.gif

[AshBugg44]

A fan spiral actually fans back from that position creating the effect of a paper fan that's drawn. The position in front (itself) has been described as the hydrant spiral or fire hydrant spiral by most people working on them around here.

I've never ever heard someone call it that. Interested.

[doubletoe]

I call it an upside-down spiral, but I've most commonlhy heard it called a fan spiral or a "fire hydrant" spiral by those who don't particularly like the position. ;) I am keeping mine in my program even though it's no longer worth anything, just because I spent the time and effort figuring out how to do it last year and I kind of like it now.

[Jeanne D]

I call it an upside-down spiral, but I've most commonlhy heard it called a fan spiral or a "fire hydrant" spiral by those who don't particularly like the position. ;) I am keeping mine in my program even though it's no longer worth anything, just because I spent the time and effort figuring out how to do it last year and I kind of like it now.

Good for you. Sometimes when you figure out things on your own, you really OWN it!

I'm learning right away that picking up the free hip is not good...puts me too far back on the blade and I fell down today. Thank god. It's about time I took a fall.

Keeping my free hip level and lifting the leg using my quad (youch)...seems to be working as far as stability goes.

[Jeanne D]

I like the way it looks - from any angle. Although if I'd have to describe it in Russian, the word razkariachka is the first that comes to mind. Russian-speaking folks will get what I mean. :lol:

Hmmmmm...I need a Russian to English translation because Renata's smiley looks like it's about to bust a gut!

[Sessy]

I don't think it translates, sorry girl. :lol:

[renatele]

Hmmmmm...I need a Russian to English translation because Renata's smiley looks like it's about to bust a gut!

Like Sessy said, it doesn't really translate (maybe it does, but the fun will be lost) - it's just a word for awkwardness, posture with kind-of spread-out legs, something along those lines.

[Sessy]

It's actually not a dictionary word either - at least I can't find it in the dictionary. It's sort of a contamination between the prefix for "apart" (as in, spread) and koriavo, which is like... chicken handwriting is writing koriavo.
Razkoriachka is kind of like... with the legs spread out, but awkwardly bent.

As R said, it takes all the fun out of it. :lol:

[Jeanne D]

It's actually not a dictionary word either - at least I can't find it in the dictionary. It's sort of a contamination between the prefix for "apart" (as in, spread) and koriavo, which is like... chicken handwriting is writing koriavo.
Razkoriachka is kind of like... with the legs spread out, but awkwardly bent.

As R said, it takes all the fun out of it. :lol:

That's OK ... it made me laugh and I knew it was funny even though I had no idea what I was laughing at! :)

[doubletoe]

Good for you. Sometimes when you figure out things on your own, you really OWN it!

I'm learning right away that picking up the free hip is not good...puts me too far back on the blade and I fell down today. Thank god. It's about time I took a fall.

Keeping my free hip level and lifting the leg using my quad (youch)...seems to be working as far as stability goes.

Well, I can't say I really figured it out by myself. A friend showed me how to do it, so I'll pass it along to you. (I'll assume you are doing this on a RBO edge). The trick is to push out onto a deep RBO edge, and then, when you feel secure on the edge, simultaneously lift the left knee to your chest and twist your shoulders as far to the left as you can. Now, keep your left knee where it is and just straighten the leg. Yes, you will need to strengthen the abdominals and hip flexor on your left side, as well as your inner quads of your left leg, but I just just practiced the lifting and extending part for a few weeks while sitting on the couch watching TV and it was enough. The higher you bring your knee up, the higher the free leg will be and the less strength you will need to get it there. Also, do hamstring stretches for the leg that will be in the air.

[Jeanne D]

The trick is to push out onto a deep RBO edge, and then, when you feel secure on the edge, simultaneously lift the left knee to your chest and twist your shoulders as far to the left as you can. Now, keep your left knee where it is and just straighten the leg. Yes, you will need to strengthen the abdominals and hip flexor on your left side, as well as your inner quads of your left leg, but I just just practiced the lifting and extending part for a few weeks while sitting on the couch watching TV and it was enough. The higher you bring your knee up, the higher the free leg will be and the less strength you will need to get it there. Also, do hamstring stretches for the leg that will be in the air.

Thank you very much. I was lifting the leg as one unit, this advice really helps. Now that I think about it I've seen the pros lift the knee first, then extend the leg. To think I can practice this while sitting down, I like that.

Good advice about the twist of the shoulders too, we talked about that today.

[tidesong]

I call it the fan spiral and I really like it because I can lean back and its like I'm uh floating over the ice....

[Jeanne D]

I call it the fan spiral and I really like it because I can lean back and its like I'm uh floating over the ice....

Yes, it's fun to defy gravity, reminds me of my slalomn waterskiing days.

Note to self; keep the speed up! 8-)

[doubletoe]

Thank you very much. I was lifting the leg as one unit, this advice really helps. Now that I think about it I've seen the pros lift the knee first, then extend the leg. To think I can practice this while sitting down, I like that.

Good advice about the twist of the shoulders too, we talked about that today.

Yes, it's not only difficult, but rather dangerous to try to lift your straight leg as a unit. It can make you fall backwards! 8O

[Jeanne D]

Yes, it's not only difficult, but rather dangerous to try to lift your straight leg as a unit. It can make you fall backwards! 8O

Yup...so I've learned. Is this true in ice dance as well, lifting the knee first? I've watched ice dancers lift the free leg well off the ice when skating BO edges. Looks great.

[doubletoe]

Yup...so I've learned. Is this true in ice dance as well, lifting the knee first? I've watched ice dancers lift the free leg well off the ice when skating BO edges. Looks great.

I don't know much about ice dance other than that the lady has someone to lean against who will cushion her fall if she takes him down. ;)

[Jeanne D]

I don't know much about ice dance other than that the lady has someone to lean against who will cushion her fall if she takes him down. ;)

This is true. I meant solo dance. One year at Lake Placid I observed a solo dance class skating back edges and the leg lift was incredible!