Holy confusing information Batman !

[3skatekiddos]

The frustration of having kids in a sport that I know very little about is killing me !!!! Particularly the skates themselves !!!!

DS ( short recap - I KNOW people are tired of hearing it ) 10, hockey player, started figure skating to help with hockey. Fine. I buy him Jackson Marquis skates from ebay. They fit. Had them punched. Blah blah. Life is good.

Turns out he likes it. Wants to jump. Okay. In 6 weeks he has all his jumps up to a but not including an axel. Spring session ends. I sign him up for a 4 week camp at Mariposa in Barrie ON. My dad lives there and he will stay with him ( Yay ). I talk to current coach. Says he needs better skates. Now this coach is new to coaching. He still competes and is young. Great guy ( and hot, but I digress ) He says get him Graf's. That's what he wears.

I looked up Graf's. WTF ???? There is no way my 10 year old, 90 lb newbie skater needs Graf's. So I ask new coach up in Barrie. Says yes. He does need better boots/blades but has no real recommendations. FINE !

So I trot said kid, his skates and his pesky 3 year old brother to the "good" figure skating store in Toronto. Where a very nice salesperson looks at me like I have lost my mind and says he should be fine in the skates he is in. Now if a salesperson, who's business it is to sell skates, doesn't want to sell me new skates should I just take that as the last word ?

HELP ME


My plan is to leave him in said skates and if they need to be changed in the middle of the damn camp then I will deal with that then. Part of the reason he is doing the camp is to decide if this is something he really wants to do or if he would like to concentrate on hockey.
My wallet has indicated it would NOT like him to do both !

[flippet]

Okay. Hmm.

The Graf advice is probably good *if* --- A) he's going to stick with figure skating, and B) he really is just that talented. (6 weeks to have all the jumps, no matter if he's already been skating hockey for a while, is pretty amazing.)

Staying in the boots he's got would also be fine, *if* --- A) he's still not quite sure if he wants to figure skate for any length of time, AND B) they're not completely broken down and putting him at risk for injury.

You really don't want to switch up to brand new boots in the middle of a clinic--there's still a break-in time, and that time will be relatively wasted in a clinic--plus, you're asking for at least somewhat sore feet--again, not something you want during a limited intensive training time.

If the boots he's got will last through the clinic, I'd wait until after to upgrade him if necessary.

[3skatekiddos]

If the boots he's got will last through the clinic, I'd wait until after to upgrade him if necessary.

THAT'S the heart of the problem. Current coach says no, new coach says maybe and salesperson says yes :)

The skates he's in were/are brand new. No breakdown whatsoever. Is it possible he could break them down in 4 weeks ? If I could see into the future and know if he was going to continue in the sport that would help too.

[dbny]

Is it possible that it's not really the boots, but the blades that the coach feels may hold him back? I think the Jackson Marquis comes as a set with blades. If so, then they are probably not real freestyle blades, and that's what he now needs. Check this out, and it may save you some money, not that freestyle blades are cheap either. Even if he does need stronger boots, I think you can easily go with a higher level Jackson, not the Grafs.

[jp1andOnly]

I dont think he needs Graf's. Perhaps go with a higher level boot with a blade you have to buy seperate. Heck, when my brother was competing senior men, he went through 2 pairs of extra strength Graf's a year. Of course he had the best blades as well. My parents learned that he got new skates and we didnt get a new car..hehe

[CanadianAdult]

My rather thin teenage son with enormous feet is still skating in Jackson Freestyles. The blade is upgraded but he's had this model since he's about 10 with new ones when he grows out of them and likes them because they're softer. He's not heavy enough to break down a boot quickly. He's doing axel. Coach doesn't care about the boot but was particular about the blades, the skate store definitely wanted him in something stronger and he knew what he wanted and refused the stiffer suggested Jackson elite boot.

His hockey skates cost more than his figure skates.

Anyway, Freestyles are a grade up from Marquis, they fit about the same and won't break your budget if it doesn't work out.

[3skatekiddos]

Anyway, Freestyles are a grade up from Marquis, they fit about the same and won't break your budget if it doesn't work out.

And the salesguy at the store said NOT to get the Freestyles. His reasoning was they weren't that different from the Marquis and he didn't want me to waste my $$$$.

Grrrrr. I just want someone to tell me what to do. *** stomp, stomp:frus: Temper tantrum ****

Yes I know I am being a baby. And I am starting to understand that this is a sport that doesn't offer a lot of definate for-sure answers.

[CanadianAdult]

Because Jackson doesn't make a man's Competitor (black skate) the choices are Marquis, Freestyle and then the Elite models. Marquis comes with boot and blade, Freestyle comes as a boot only and you can buy a better blade. True, there isn't much difference between the boots.

I'd also look at GAM, depending on the width of the feet. They make wider models now and a GAM boots breaks in quickly and comfortably (heh and can break down quickly) and I do like their blades.

[sk8trmom]

Chris Mabee wears Gam Skates & Pattern 99 Blades

[Isk8NYC]

Grrrrr. I just want someone to tell me what to do. *** stomp, stomp:frus: Temper tantrum ****Order, puh-lease! Don't get too worked up, it's only a sport. LOL

I'm going to take a Serious Wild-A**ed Guess (SWAG) and say that your DS isn't complaining about the skates. Why would he? They're practically brand new so they probably have a lot of support. I think there's some ankle bend restriction in those boots, but it's not a major problem for a strong skater like your DS. The Marquis skate isn't rated for big jumps like axels and doubles. However, if the skates are not broken down, he's not complaining, and he's achieving all these jumps with proper knee bend and extension, let the purchase slide a while.

He has only six weeks to break in new skates, which could cause him to temporarily lose the progress he's made in these boots. If you wait more than 3 weeks, it's too late to break them in before camp. Send him with the knowledge that, once camp is over, he'll be getting new skates because you expect him to destroy these during the camp. LOL

Heat molding's just smart - use the technology they've built into the skates. I know you mentioned having the boots punched out, but that's not unusual for new boots and/or new figure skaters.

As you have probably figured out, many coaches recommend whatever they like/use, which is ridiculous. If he likes the Jackson Marquis, go with a Jackson Freestyle as CanadianAdult recommended. I wouldn't order them with the Mark IV blade if he's already working on axels; upgrade the blade. I am a long-time Riedell fan on my third pair of ♥ Klingbeils. My own kids and most of my students wear Jacksons - they're affordable, I like the heel height, and the blades are pretty decent. The Freestyles will take him through doubles.

Keep an eye out for any skates with a good blade - you can always buy a cheap pair of used Freestyles and cull an MK Pro blade for his new skates.

[Tennisany1]

My limited experience has shown that many (not all :) ) coaches often know squat about what beginner kids need. Your DS is still very much a beginner and I agree with who ever said it is probably a blade not a boot issue. Check out the toe pick - if it doesn't look fairly large and dangerous the blade is probably not rated for an axel or doubles. Now chances are your son will not be landed doubles this summer, but he may be working on an axel (Although I would bet that who ever is coaching him at this camp starts him right back with the waltz jump and drills the technique of all those singles.) Anyway, back to the blade. Ask the nice skate shop guide about GAM blades. They are reasonably priced (the G3 is rated for doubles and is under $100) and may just do the trick for the summer.

Good luck!

[Sessy]

If the blades are the problem, get new blades now (so he can still adjust to them), mount em on marquis, make sure the size is a proper fit so that he can re-mount em on new skates. If he decides to quit figure skating you can re-sell the blades but not at newprice of course but still. I think for the spins the blades make even more of a difference than for the jumps to be honest.

Graf has different models apparently, but the stores I have been to here in the Netherlands only carry the Edmonton model and that's way too hard for axel-doubles.

Besides I've skated for a year in Risport Etoiles, which is a boot not rated for even jumping singles in. Half way through the year I had good blades (coronation ace) put under them. I did even a half-decent attempt at an axel in them, but I did have all the other singles in them.
Of course now they're completely destroyed, but seriously, I'm a 120+ (not even sure if I'm under 130 actually) girl who's been training a lot in them this year. They stood up to the abuse till I got started on the lutz really, then they broke down REALLY fast. I know somebody who learned all the singles excluding the axel in basically "grandma's skates", skates with no anckle support at all.

[3skatekiddos]

Check out the toe pick - if it doesn't look fairly large and dangerous the blade is probably not rated for an axel or doubles. Now chances are your son will not be landed doubles this summer, but he may be working on an axel (Although I would bet that who ever is coaching him at this camp starts him right back with the waltz jump and drills the technique of all those singles.)

Good luck!

The toe pick looks normal. It's the same blade that comes standard on a lot of Jacksons. The Mark IV I think. I will call the store and ask.
ITA with the relearning of all the jumps. As I was explaining to the new coach on the phone ( who I am sure was rolling his eyes ) He looks like a hockey player jumping when he jumps. He has very little grace and flow KWIM ? He can technically DO them, they just aren't pretty ! He really wants to learn that axel though :)

[Sessy]

Mwuah, all the guys I've seen who were doing singles were doing them on pure strength. Let's face it, guys are stronger, so they can jump higher so they don't need to spin as fast and pull in as tightly. It evens out after a while. :lol:

[twokidsskatemom]

The toe pick looks normal. It's the same blade that comes standard on a lot of Jacksons. The Mark IV I think. I will call the store and ask.
ITA with the relearning of all the jumps. As I was explaining to the new coach on the phone ( who I am sure was rolling his eyes ) He looks like a hockey player jumping when he jumps. He has very little grace and flow KWIM ? He can technically DO them, they just aren't pretty ! He really wants to learn that axel though :)

Most skaters dont learn them with grace and flow. That comes with time on the ice and maturity.
Jumps are great, but maybe explain to him if he doesnt have good stroking, edges, posture ect, the jumps mean very little.Its the whole package, even for boys.
Hth
a mom of two skaters, one boy and one girl.

[Virtualsk8r]

Getting rid of the hockey stance takes lots of hours of stroking and 'blade time' on the ice-----just because a skater can jump doesn't mean they can figure skate.

If the boots have lots of support and fit, and the blade is sharpened properly - then you should be fine until he outgrows them. Perhaps the trick is to have the blades sharpened to 7/16th or even 3/8 (dance sharpening) rather than the standard 1/2 combination. The cheaper blade doesn't hold an edge as well so sharpen it often.

A figure skating store that tells you not to buy skates - is a treasure. They want your business in the long run, not just to make a quick buck.

I've seen skaters with dance blades (shorter and smaller picks) and even figure blades (no bottom pick) - do double jumps and even double axels, so don't let a coach tell you that a cheap blade will stop a skater from learning...

[LilJen]

WHAT? You're not taking the word of a young, hot coach?? Actually, I think you're wise to seek other advice. Just because one person has success with a particular boot doesn't it's right for everyone else's foot.

I agree with whoever said upthread, if your son's boots & blades will make it through the camp, he should stick with them. At that point, maybe he'll have enough of an idea of whether he wants to stick with skating--edges, stroking, all the "boring" stuff as well as the cool jumps. At that point you can consult with salespeople and based on your son's abilities & weight and goals you can find the right boots & blades for him.

[Sessy]

I've seen skaters with dance blades (shorter and smaller picks) and even figure blades (no bottom pick) - do double jumps and even double axels, so don't let a coach tell you that a cheap blade will stop a skater from learning...

Unless you bend your blades like I did. Then that sort of tends to get in the way of progress. :lol:

[phoenix]

I've seen skaters with dance blades (shorter and smaller picks) and even figure blades (no bottom pick) - do double jumps and even double axels, so don't let a coach tell you that a cheap blade will stop a skater from learning...

Yes--but they almost certainly didn't LEARN the jumps on those blades. Big difference. My coach can do double axels on MK dance blades, but he was a freestyle skater when he learned them & wasn't on those tiny blades at the time.

[3skatekiddos]

All righty - Here's the plan. I am going to see about putting a better blade on his current skates in a length that could go on the next pair of skates. I am not even sure you can do that to this skate. I am hoping it will take less time to get used to a new blade than new skates ! He is still really learning to be aware of his toepick TOEPICK ! LOL so the bigger teeth shouldn't kill him I hope.
How 'bout that plan ?

[Tennisany1]

If I was you I would go back to the shop in Toronto because it seems to me that they will not try to upsell you too much. He really doen't need (IMHO) expensive blades at this point. He just needs something with freestyle toepicks which will let him learn correct picking technique. As I said in my earlier post, he will probably spend most of the camp working on posture, edges, stroking, spins and technique, not on an axel or doubles. I would be careful about assuming you will move these blades to the next pair of skates as in my experience it doesn't happen that often with young kids who are growing quickly. Both GAM and Wilson have websites you can check out before you go so you have an idea of what is available.

http://www.johnwilsonskates.com/index.html

http://www.gamskates.com/main.html

Good luck!