Pro-Am Dance Competitions

[pennybeagle]

I'm chairing an adult competition and we are seriously considering adding a "pro-am" dance event. However, since I've never actually competed in one, I don't really know how to write the announcement in a way that is clear to competitors, coaches, judges, etc. (By "pro-am" I mean an amateur skater who is partnering with someone [ostensibly a "pro"] who skates at a higher level.)

For everyone who has experience competing in or chairing a competition with a pro-am dance event, I have a few questions...

1) Where should I look for announcements to good pro-am dance events?
2) Are the pro-am events more like solo dance (one-shot events), or are they like actual dance events (initial round, final round)?
3) Is "pro" typically defined as a "professional coach," or is it merely someone who is at a higher level than the other skater? For example, I'm a pre-silver dancer. If I partnered with a preliminary dancer, could I be the "pro?"
4) Are there typically limitations on the number of events an individual can enter within the pro-am event? Again, using myself as an example, could I skate with a preliminary skater for the Dutch Waltz, and then skate with my coach for the Foxtrot?

Thanks so much!

[Sylvia]

Here's the announcement/application for the 2007 Edward G. Picken Pro-Am Dance Classic (June 8-10, hosted by the Washington FSC): http://users.erols.com/wfsc/docs/2007ProAmApp.pdf
Links to the tentative schedule and a letter to competitors can be found on the Washington FSC site: http://www.wfsc.net/

[phoenix]

http://www.skokievalleyskatingclub.com/

Skokie Valley's announcement & forms can be found here.

[Mrs Redboots]

At the Mountain Cup all couples dance events can be pro-am if someone wishes to enter - you just tick the relevant box if that's what you want. In practice, there have only been pro-am entries at the highest levels, but in theory, even pre-Bronze could be pro-am if required; if there were only one or two entries they would warm up with, and skate with, the ordinary couples, but be marked separately.

A link to the Mountain Cup entry forms can be found here (http://www.gerfsc.com/intl.htm).

[jenlyon60]

Sylvia posted the link to the Pickens Pro-Am competition. As a sometimes competitor and always volunteer, I'd like to add these comments.

It is best to offer multiple opportunities for skaters while not offering so many events that you end up with only 1 or 2 skaters/teams per event.

WFSC has normally tried to pick the Open dance events to be same as or close to those that will be competed the next season in qualifying competition. This seems to have worked well. We typically offer separate Class IV Open dance events to offer a more level playing field to older skaters wanting to compete in Opens vice test-level events.

We've always capped the test-level events to avoid the worse of the sand-bagging (i.e. a skater cannot enter a test-level event lower than their completed test level, but may enter test-level events higher than their completed test level). There was some discussion on revising the latter, but I don't remember if that language was added into the announcement for this year.

We also will combine age level classes in the test level events if there are insufficient entries. Because the Pickens Pro-Am is open to all ages, we use a different age class breakdown than the "normal" age groups for Adult skating. We used to not separate out the under-18s into separate groups, but in the past couple years we've broken the under-18s into 2 groups for certain test-level events (Silver and below as I recall). This is more equitable for the younger skaters who may not have the size and strength of a 15 or 16 year old.

The important thing in my mind is to shoot for making the event as inclusive as possible. You want to encourage maximum participation while at the same time it helps to not set things such that people feel "why should I bother because coach x and his students always win." (There may be a little of that but you want to try and minimize the possibility as much as possible.)

From a timing perspective, the Pro-Ams that I know about for this year are all in the March to June timeframe. One reason for this is availability of judges. Late July through mid-August is bad timing because of the Lake Placid Ice Dancing Championships. Many dance judges with competition appointments are judging or trial judging at Lake Placid, which is always the first week in August. And from early October through early to mid-December, judges tend to be tied up with Regionals/Sectionals/Junior Nationals.

[pennybeagle]

Thanks, everyone, for posting links and comments! :D

I noticed that the Pickens and Skokie Valley competitions define "pro" as "coach," or someone who "receives financial benefit for instructing figure skating." Can a "pro" in this scenario skater with multiple partners?

Mrs. Redboots, I didn't see anything in the Mountain Cup announcement that talked about the pro-ams... am I understanding correctly that there isn't actually a separate event, but that a pre-bronze team could actually consist of say, one pre-bronze dancer and one coach? So when the marks come up, then do they split the event? How does this work with the accounting?

Are there any competitions that allow the "pro" to be defined more loosely? That is... can a "pro" be another eligible skater who is above the level of the dance being skated?

Consider the following scenario, with two teams:

Test level: Bronze. Dance to be skated: Willow Waltz
Skater 1 ("amateur"): highest test passed=Pre-Bronze plus Hickory Hoedown and Willow Waltz
Skater 2 ("pro"): highest test passed=Blues; NOT a coach.

Skater A ("amateur"): highest test passed=Pre-Bronze plus Hickory Hoedown
Skater B ("pro"): highest test passed=Sr. Int'l Rhumba; coach.

In either case, there is one skater who is the "official" eligible skater who is entering the event, and another skater who is partnering that eligible skater. So the clarification is... does that partner have to be a paid coach? How does one check, anyway?

jenlyon60, thank you for the detailed comments! To clarify... I've received some requests from various people to include a Pro-Am dance event for the Buckeye Adult Open. This is an adult-only event, with young adult events, so we probably won't have as many of the issues of size and partnering that may arise for under-18 skaters. What is going to be challenging, though, is to fit a pro-am event into an existing competition that has many other events (freestyle, interp, compulsories, etc) without it getting out of hand.

I'm hoping for this to be a fun add-on event for skaters competing in other events, or a way for adult (but competition-partnerless) dancers to compete in a partnered event. This is kind of in the spirit of the Team Maneuvers event at the Peach Classic. The event will be in October, after our regionals. We do have a number of dance judges in our area, some of whom will be at other regional competitions, I'm sure. The level of judges we need will probably have to be determined by the level of entries, but it is something to be mindful of. Thanks.

Anyway, thank you everyone who replied. If anyone else has any other bits of advice or insights, they will be much appreciated!

[jenlyon60]

Oh definitely. Most of the coaches who bring students to the Pickens Pro-Am bring multiple students. For example, my ex-coach tried to fill things up so he had a student in each of over half the events.

The intent with the Pickens Pro-Am is to give those dancers who normally only dance/test with their coach (and don't have partners and may not want to compete solo dance) a chance to compete.

In your example, for skaters 1/2, under the rules of our Pro-Am, those skaters would be best off entering an Open event such as Open Willow Waltz. Skaters A/B could enter either an Open Willow Waltz or a Bronze test-level event (or both if the coach and student wanted to).

For us, the Open Dances are generally for teams who normally compete qualifying dance, or 2 eligible skaters (who just choose to compete in the event), or a student/coach combination.

To be honest, there's a certain trust card, especially if the "coach" doesn't work in the local area of the competition organizers. And there can be shades of grey, especially when a high-level competitive dancer is also coaching part-time to earn money.

[jskater49]

So when you have a pro-am does it have to be a male/female partnership? Cuz my coach is a female.

j