coach dilemma

[peanutskates]

OK... when I was in SkateUK (LTS) classes, I had this great coach, whom I shall call 'A'. he always pushed me a bit further and watched me practice out of class and then gave me advice later, etc. So I was thinking at the time, when I get to private lessons, I'm gonna ask him.

Then he moved me up a class and I was with Coach 'B'. She was quite good too, and on the second lesson, asked me to come to her Bronze/Silver/Gold group (you all know that story...). So I ended up having a private lesson with her on one day of the week. She's a great coach, but every time I think of this, I keep wondering whether I made the right choice, and keep thinking how great Coach A was. Every time I see him at the rink with a student, I'm thinking, should that be me there? Uhh.

Thing is, he never offered me private lessons, and I never asked, whereas Coach B did offer me privates, as I was "too good for the private group".

Now I guess the ideal solution might be to have both Coach A and Coach B, but my parents might not agree. I don't know what to do. I don't really want to quit Coach B's lessons, but I'm always wondering... and I do want Coach A to coach me again, I think. It's very confusing.

Do you think I was pushed in a little bit, with B's flattery, or was she just eager to coach me if she thought I had potential?

[Mrs Redboots]

I think we always wonder a bit about "the road not taken". If you're finding that you're working well with Coach B, and her teaching style suits your learning style, then maybe leave it at that for now. If, on the other hand, her teaching style isn't really "you", then maybe you could explore changing.

Be careful about taking lessons with both of them - rink politics are sometimes such that some coaches can't and don't work together very well. So it might be that you could take from coach A OR coach B, but not both at once. Very disheartening and shouldn't happen (and I have personal reasons for wishing it didn't), but coaches are only human, after all. And some pairs of coaches work very well together and you can take from both at the same time with no problems.

[stardust skies]

OK... when I was in SkateUK (LTS) classes, I had this great coach, whom I shall call 'A'. He's Russian, and he always pushed me a bit further and watched me practice out of class and then gave me advice later, etc. So I was thinking at the time, when I get to private lessons, I'm gonna ask him.

Then he moved me up a class and I was with Coach 'B'. She was quite good too, and on the second lesson, asked me to come to her Bronze/Silver/Gold group (you all know that story...). So I ended up having a private lesson with her on one day of the week. She's a great coach, but every time I think of this, I keep wondering whether I made the right choice, and keep thinking how great Coach A was. Every time I see him at the rink with a student, I'm thinking, should that be me there? Uhh.

Thing is, he never offered me private lessons, and I never asked, whereas Coach B did offer me privates, as I was "too good for the private group".

Now I guess the ideal solution might be to have both Coach A and Coach B, but my parents might not agree. I don't know what to do. I don't really want to quit Coach B's lessons, but I'm always wondering... and I do want Coach A to coach me again, I think. It's very confusing.

Do you think I was pushed in a little bit, with B's flattery, or was she just eager to coach me if she thought I had potential?


*IN GENERAL* it is considered taboo to solocit students for lessons. The PSA in the U.S. doesn't allow it, at the least. You can't offer to give a student lessons, they have to ask. So personally, I think Coach A followed a much more professional approach than Coach B. Which isn't to say Coach A would be a better coach for you that Coach B, but in my personal opinion, if you were truly satisfied with what Coach B was doing for you then you would *know* you made the right decision and wouldn't be doing all this wondering of "what if". I personally suggest that you let Coach B know you are going to seek a second set of eyes in Coach A for a few lessons. Try out with Coach A, see how he compares. If you decided Coach A works better for you, let Coach B know that you appreciated her help but feel more at home with your previous coach. If you don't think Coach A will work for you after all, then no harm done, it was just a few lessons to "get a second set of eyes", and when the number of agreed lessons (I'd say 3 is a good bet) expires, you go your separate ways, no feelings hurt.

You have to remember that a coach is an employee. You don't owe them to stay with them and keep paying them if you're unhappy, and as well, you don't have any obligation not to shop around for other coaches. Technically you shouldn't even have to let them know as much in my opinion, but code of ethics says you do. Then again, code of ethics also says not to solicit privates from your LTS students...so...I personally would treat someone with the same amount of ethics as they treated me. But if all of these coaches are at the same rink, then you obviously have to tell them about each other first. Shouldn't be a problem though, and if it is, then you don't want to be with the coach that is hindering you from shopping around anyway.

[Isk8NYC]

The OP is in the UK; therefore the coaches' approach is governed by the NISA standards, not the PSA. She took group lessons with coach A, not privates. In fact, privates were never discussed with Coach A. When she was promoted into Coach B's highest-level skating group, they found that her skills were above the level of the group. There is no other group lesson option that will challenge her - that's why Coach B suggested private lessons. At that point, the skater and parents should have chosen a coach, but they just went with her current group coach. Most parents make the same choice and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's no violation of ethics here.

I haven't seen anything posted that says the OP isn't progressing, or that she's unhappy with Coach B. Sounds like a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side." (Completely understandable) I do think the trial lessons sound like a good solution, then select one coach to continue with in the future.

The PSA Code of Ethics prohibits coaches from soliciting OTHER coaches' private students. Examples would be offering gifts/advice/free lessons, bad-mouthing the current coach to parents, or starting rumors. Coach B has done none of those things. In the US, the Rink/school would rather have a student be 'moved up' to privates rather than lose the skater because the group lesson program couldn't challenge her. This is NOT prohibited by the PSA Code of Ethics (http://www.skatepsa.com/Code-Of-Ethics.htm). The PSA actually encourages coaches to promote their services, without solicitation or tampering (http://www.skatepsa.com/What%20are%20Solicitation,Promotion%20and%20Tamper ing.pdf), as does the ISI which is a facility-based organization.

BTW, students in group lessons don't 'belong' to the instructor for that group; the instructor is assigned by the skating director and the students really have no choice. When the student decides to take private lessons, THEY choose their private coach. The suggestion to take privates may come from the student, an instructor, or from the skating school office staff.

[dbny]

Isk8NYC, you took the words right out of my mouth (er, and arranged them a bit better :lol:).

[peanutskates]

thanks everyone. mrs redboots, I think that having 2 coaches would not be such a problem here, as I've seen one girl who was taught by 2 different coaches (she is a very high level dancer however...)

isk8nyc, I think your post was a lot of sense. thank you... however, one thing does niggle me a little:

There is no other group lesson option that will challenge her
that's the thing... there *probably* were other groups that were a little higher than the one I was in, but with a different coach on a different day. I don't know for sure though. but I wasn't told by her.

there might not be any point messing around with lessons now, it's nearly summer, but I might consider taking trials from coach a in the autumn, and then deciding.

[jskater49]

thanks everyone. mrs redboots, I think that having 2 coaches would not be such a problem here, as I've seen one girl who was taught by 2 different coaches (she is a very high level dancer however...)

.


When you are just beginning, I don't recommend two different coaches...unless one is for freestyle and one for dance ...but not to teach the same thing...I did that when I started out and it drove me batty because coaches have different ways of teaching. Some want you to learn edges or 3 turns with your arms one way, others another way...when you are starting out, you need to learn one way and stick with it.

Even higher level students who switch coaches often have to relearn jumps because coaches teach differently. We moved and were coach hopping and my daughter lost her axel for about 6 months from too many coaches.

j

[Mrs Redboots]

thanks everyone. mrs redboots, I think that having 2 coaches would not be such a problem here, as I've seen one girl who was taught by 2 different coaches (she is a very high level dancer however...)

Oh, sure - but sometimes you have to be careful to pick which two coaches. If they are the very two that don't speak to each other, then you have a problem....

[stardust skies]

She took group lessons with coach A, not privates. In fact, privates were never discussed with Coach A. When she was promoted into Coach B's highest-level skating group, they found that her skills were above the level of the group. There is no other group lesson option that will challenge her - that's why Coach B suggested private lessons. At that point, the skater and parents should have chosen a coach, but they just went with her current group coach. Most parents make the same choice and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's no violation of ethics here.

I understand that she never took lessons with Coach A, but from that post only it seems to me like she wants to skate with Coach A more than with Coach B- whether or not she's progressing with Coach B has little to do with that. You could progress with 10 different coaches but only be happy skating with one.

As for the whole ethics issue- to me it isn't even a PSA issue. I understand that Coach B suggested private lessons after the OP outgrew the highest group class...but from what I understand, Coach B sugested lessons with herself. I personally think that is a lot of pressure, and that's why it's unethical. To be put in a position of "you've outgrown our highest group class, I think you should move to privates, and I can take you twice a week" is really awkward to turn down. I know, I've been there when my main coach pressured me to do side work with one of her assistants who I just couldn't stand. It's super awkward to be like "um, no thanks, I'll just go with a different coach now." You could do it, but there would probably be hard feelings. That is why it's discouraged for coaches to do that. To say "you've outgrown our highest group classes and might benefit from privates now, and I can give you a list of coaches who are available for private lessons" is a much better way to go about it, and then the coach can specify in that list that she, too is available. If a student really likes to coach, they will ask her if she is available even if she doesn't say anything, anyway.

Either way, I don't think someone would be bothered enough by a situation to post about it on a forum like this unless there really was something missing. Whether or not the OP will find it in Coach A is for her to find out, but I really don't see any reason for the OP to settle just because she is progressing- after all, who knows how much more she could progress with Coach A. Maybe she wouldn't, but...that's why it's a good idea to find out.